Hypothetical Scenario related to SAS in 1980

We all know the SAS dealt with the Iranian terrorists at the embassay in London in 1980. I was thinking, what if that happnened in the USA today, say at an embassay overrun with terrorists in Washington, DC. My question is who would we use to counter this threat? Would it be the DC Police, FBI HRT, would they bring in the best SWAT team in the country- maybe from Miami or LA? Or would they use military counter-terrorism unit like Delta Force, like the SAS?

It would most definatly be military special forces if the country of origin of the embassy had requested help.

My opinion. I read alot of Rogue Warrior books about SEAL teams, and they talked alot about counter hostage training for potential situations involving embassies.

Dont quote me, thats just my guess.

Most likely FBI HRT. Delta is mostly meant for overseas, but the President could order such action within the U.S.

Good question. IMO 1 of 3 would be used.

• FBI Hostage Rescue Team
  
• Delta Force
  
• Seal Team 6

Most likely depend on the embassy, I could mabye see the SAS or SBS doing it if it was the UK embassy , but then again it depends.

If several of the hostages were considered high VIP status, im sure that an assault(if happend) would be by Delta Force.. they are masters of CQB and CT actions

IIRC :

posse commitatus does not apply to washington DC so there is no restriction on using military units

foreign embassies enjoy extra terretorial status - so they are " out side " the USA as far as the law goes

Originally posted by mad scientist
Good question. IMO 1 of 3 would be used.

• FBI Hostage Rescue Team
  
• Delta Force
  
• Seal Team 6

Technically I thought there is no such thing as seal team 6 anymore since they were renamed DEVGRU

Naturally the "playbook" for this has already been written, so we are attampting to divine what is written in it.

The logical choice is FBI HRT, because the G-men are responsible for the security of the embassies.

Buuut,

Delta are supposed to be the absolute top of the chain in the US military tree, that was certainly Charlie Beckwith's aim, and, as pointed out, Posse Comitatus apparently doesn't apply to the District of Columbia aaand the embassies are foreign territory anyway, so the soldiers would only be operating on US soil if they chased the bad guys into the street.

As for the SEALs, well, I just don't know enough about them, but I would suggest that given the primary mission is littoral/amphibious, their CT skills would be aimed at Achille Lauro-type situations (but that's my assumption).

I say call in the DC SWAT team, but only if Samuel L Jackson and Colin Farrel are leading it (I just want to see Michelle Rodriguez in blue overalls again!).

I was wondering if the secret service has a CT unit? I searched around and couldnt find anything

Originally posted by warpboost
Technically I thought there is no such thing as seal team 6 anymore since they were renamed DEVGRU

That maybe so, but they are still referred to by a large number of people in the mililtary as SEAL Team 6.

Originally posted by mad scientist

That maybe so, but they are still referred to by a large number of people in the mililtary as SEAL Team 6.

Only because they dont like that stupid name DEVGRU. Another name by the Pentagon because of the creator who speaked out about his creation from his books.

Originally posted by WindWalker
If several of the hostages were considered high VIP status, im sure that an assault(if happend) would be by Delta Force.. they are masters of CQB and CT actions

does this mean that if there were no "high VIPs" then they would send in any old rubbish.

On a more serious note, i would have thought Delta Force the FBI or a SWAT team. I would have thought that Delta force would be first choice but if they need a quicker reaction time than Delta force could provide then they would choose the FBI followed by a SWAT team. However it would depend on where it was, who was available and who the terrerist were. I cannot see the SAS doing the job even on the british embassy unless there was a squad traing with Delta. The SBS wouldnt do it because that is not their job and not what they train for specifically although im sure as dedicated professionals that they would be capable of undertaking such a job.

Originally posted by justin_barton3
I cannot see the SAS doing the job even on the british embassy unless there was a squad traing with Delta. The SBS wouldnt do it because that is not their job and not what they train for specifically although im sure as dedicated professionals that they would be capable of undertaking such a job.

????

Current SAS roles include:

Gathering intelligence behind enemy lines.
Destroying targets far behind enemy lines.
Protecting senior British dignitaries.
Executing CRW operations to assist police units such as SO19.
Operating without official British Government involvement.
Training special forces of other nationalities.
Performing counter-terrorism operations at home and abroad

en.wikipedia.org...

No one really knows what the SBS do, we do know they have a CT section and have secured UK embassys.

I can't see any way in which the US would allow a foreign team to undertake a CT mission such as in this hypothesis. Even though the embassies do have diplomatic status, and are exempt from the normal laws of the land, one still has to pass over US soil to reach each individual compound. They would almost certainly send in the FBI's HRT as they would be the easiest and quickest option that they could call on. Failing that, and if the personnel captive were of a high enough 'value' they would send in Grey Fox. They would also immediately request satellite coverage from any sympathetic government who happens to have one over the site (unless their own was available).

Bish bash bosh, job done.

Benjj

[edit on 17-1-2006 by benjj]

Originally posted by benjj
I can't see any way in which the US would allow a foreign team to undertake a CT mission such as in this hypothesis. Even though the embassies do have diplomatic status, and are exempt from the normal laws of the land, one still has to pass over US soil to reach each individual compound.

If a country asked for it's own team ot do the job, of course they'd be allowed to. The US would be glad to get rid of the responsibility as well, it won't be their fault if people are killed.
Also, the US wouldn't go in unless they had permission from whichever countries embassy.

They would almost certainly send in the FBI's HRT as they would be the easiest and quickest option that they could call on.

What makes them the easiest and quickest. Any one of the 3 main CT teams - Delta, SEALS and HRT could be deployed there.

Failing that, and if the personnel captive were of a high enough 'value' they would send in Grey Fox.

No way, they wouldn't use Grey Fox, that isn't their mission, they aren't trained for hostage rescue to the same level the others are.

They would also immediately request satellite coverage from any sympathetic government who happens to have one over the site (unless their own was available).

LOL, that was a good laugh. What exacetly are the satellites meant to show ? I think you've been playing too mnay computer games.


[edit on 17-1-2006 by mad scientist]

Originally posted by mad scientist
LOL, that was a good laugh. What exacetly are the satellites meant to show ? I think you've been playing too mnay computer games.
[edit on 17-1-2006 by mad scientist]

You never know when you need a super highly accurate, high definition, high resolution, up to date and expensive image of a pigeon pooing on the roof....

Benji if the US does like the idea of having a forign CT team on thier soil then pray tell us why they allow a forign flight officer to fly a stealth bomber??

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by benjj
They would almost certainly send in the FBI's HRT as they would be the easiest and quickest option that they could call on.

What makes them the easiest and quickest. Any one of the 3 main CT teams - Delta, SEALS and HRT could be deployed there.

The fact that because they are domestic law-enforcement they are "on-call" and ready to go. The other two are military, they don't sit around in their fatigues waiting for a hostage situation to occur. They have to equip and then go.

If you go back to Prince's Gate the scene was secured by the police and then they had to wait for SAS to arrive. That took time. A lot of it. There was also the political consideration, Maggie had to decide if the SAS would even be used.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
The fact that because they are domestic law-enforcement they are "on-call" and ready to go. The other two are military, they don't sit around in their fatigues waiting for a hostage situation to occur. They have to equip and then go.

Says who, you ? I have read a book on the FBI HRT called " COld Zero ". they don't just sit around as you like to think

If you go back to Prince's Gate the scene was secured by the police and then they had to wait for SAS to arrive. That took time. A lot of it. There was also the political consideration, Maggie had to decide if the SAS would even be used.

Oh really, another assumption on your part. It only took the SAS as long to get there, as it took for the decision to be made to use them.

This may apply-

www.fas.org...

It would appear that the Secret Service through it's 'Uniformed Branch' is the operative agency most likely to be given direct responsibility over foreign dignitaries and missions.

I believe they are also at least the 'coordinating agency' (which comes down to having the highest level radio net and authorization for intrusive surveillance) for other 'mission elements' which means they get to do the PR liason work while the snakeeaters slither back under their rocks.

During both the first two years July 4 celebrations in NYC and then again for one of the big Rep/Dem conventions that took place there, the 'Federal Protective Services' were the people that the news crews were taking footage of with all their panel trucks sprouting antenna farms.

Having said that, HRT in Quantico was mobilized for one of the big Cuban prison riots in 1987 or so as noboby wanted to go back home to papa Castro. And then when the second situation cooked off up in Georgia, they couldn't cover both.

In that instance, I believe it came down to local Atlanta SWAT getting the nod until they could contain the problem in Louisiana. Down in the Bayou HRT was desired simply for sniper filler and forced entry advice (explosive and distraction ops) so that the Marshals (Oakdale is a federal Supermax facility) would not be spread too thin on the ground in support roles while also functioning as the principle entry team.

I doubt if it would be much different in your scenario UNLESS (as with London) there were active fires coming from the building such that the talk-down approach wasn't an option.

In any case, it would be a cold day in hell before one nation swallowed it's pride enough to admit that they were not the men for the job. Just look at the Germans in Munich (of course now they have GSG-9 and a half dozen other CT and 'investigative' field units).

In any case, as with all police operations, what it typically comes down to is locking down the building and calling for backup and by that time, you have more or less 'set the tone' (chain of command) if not the pacing of the op by the nature of the local vs. federal proximity to the event.

A more interesting scenario involves investing a compound which has either gone feral (home country has declared war or a desire for retaliation as a function of special weapons on-soil). Or been overrun by another hostile power (Al Qaeda grabs the Israeli embassy) with similar 'lets blow up WDC and make Jews our scapegoats if not gunshields').

Depending on who was alive inside and who was still fighting (Tet and the Saigon embassy) to maintain that vital toehold of access, you could easily find yourself in a scenario whereby, to save the masses of 'innocents' you either had to level the building with JDAM.

Or use some kind of incapacitant nastiness like the Russians did in Moscow.

Either way, the notion of run and gun hostage rescue is pretty much a Hollyweird artifact now. You go in with very small robots and image from outside with UWB/Microwave. Hoping that you can find a way to screw with their electronics so that IF you are forced to the last resort, at least they have to pull the pin or pop the chem pencil manually.

More like Peru than the Iranian idiocy.

In the latter case Grey Fox might be very useful indeed.


KPl.