Illuminati symbolysm in South Africa

Guys, this is turning out to be a very interesting thread. Loving the info from all the fellow SA members.

Hello julle!



Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I find this discussions very interesting... And yes I AM a Freemason and proud of it!!!
But somehow I think a lot of people out there have huge misunderstandings of Freemasons.
1) We are NOT a secret society...Secret societies do not have their adresses in the telephone book and do not display their Insignia on the walls and gates of their meeting places! We are a Brotherhood with secrets yes... just like you would find in most every aspect of life! Do you share your bedroom frollics with the world? No... it is your secrets that you share only with your wife/partner.(I hope) Do companies share their marketing strategies with other similar companies? NO... So what makes Freemasons so different from the rest of the world that we are not alowed to have some secrets?
2) Lets discuss the conspiracy theories a bit: The Illuminati does not exist. It was disbanned more than 200 years ago even though the so-called illuminati tried to use the Freemasons as their foothold into the world which did not work. Freemasons do not try to take over the world...Freemasonry is about Good men wanting to make themself Better. We believe in Brotherly Love towards each other and towards all mankind. We believe in Good and Upstanding Vertues, and yes we believe in God, be it the Christian, Jewish, Moslem or any other religious God.(For one I am a staunch Christian). Many a well known men have been Masons purely because their Masonic Virtues have made them excell in everything they do. So if Freemasons were trying to take over the world, dont you think that after 300 years we would have succeeded by now? Governments and rulers have come and gone, yet Freemasons is still around... And if we did, we sure aint doing a damn good job of it are we? But then again, maybe we should start to rule the world and start to teach our believes to every man and woman out there... then maby there will be more brotherly love, peace, and goodwill amongs people... no more hatred, murders, racism and all the sick things you see every day in the news...

My advice to all people who wonder about Freemasons and who want to know more, or just satisfy their curiosity... Grab your local telephone directory or Google the closest Lodge to you. You will find our contact details there and talk to us. Ask and you will receive. Then decide wheter we are still the evil demonic creatures trying to rule the world...
BTW just as a matter of interest for those who would like to know: In the USA a total of $150 Million Dollars( Yes you read correctly) is donated DAILY towards Childrens hospitals and charities by....... wait for it......wait for it.....FREEMASONS! And that is only the USA, not even starting to mention the rest of the world and right there in your own comunity...

Can you better that?

tj2402

BTW just as a matter of interest for those who would like to know: In the USA a total of $150 Million Dollars( Yes you read correctly) is donated DAILY towards Childrens hospitals and charities by....... wait for it......wait for it.....FREEMASONS! And that is only the USA, not even starting to mention the rest of the world and right there in your own comunity...

Nice post, Brother, but I do believe you're missing a dot in your $150 million dollars...

Volunteer Support - Freemasons contribute to blood banks, the funding of medical research and support and maintenance of hospitals for crippled and burned children in the United States, Canada and in Mexico. Freemasons in North America, alone, give over 1.5 million dollars each day to charities.
Source: Masonic Lodge of Education

network dude

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by kingstonp

 

Hail to the king. Welcome back, Steve. We missed you. How long before you turn around and start hating on Masons again. One week? Two? You still working at Alpine?

I think you have confused this poster. He is not the Parakletos. He is a brother from SA. Quite possible sent here to keep tabs on Saurus.

I think his screen name set off your stomp sensor. I don't think he has been around in a while. I do miss him a bit. At least he would argue like he had common sense. He just gets too emotional and trips the T&C wire. Maybe the electrical business in the Mile High city is doing well and he has been too busy to hang out here.

Is The Parakletos guy you are talking about the same guy who said you can cure cancer from some kind of acid, he said Freemasons are responsible for chemtrails, masons are blocking the cure for cancer, masons in the army stabbed him/killed his father, had more than one ats account, and (my personal favorite) he had some homeless guy living him who claimed to be the thief on the cross with Jesus? I hope you're wrong because I really wish that guy would come back haha.

nancyliedersdeaddog

Is The Parakletos guy you are talking about the same guy who said you can cure cancer from some kind of acid, he said Freemasons are responsible for chemtrails, masons are blocking the cure for cancer, masons in the army stabbed him/killed his father, had more than one ats account, and (my personal favorite) he had some homeless guy living him who claimed to be the thief on the cross with Jesus? I hope you're wrong because I really wish that guy would come back haha.

That would be Steve.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I hope he comes back because that guy was hilarious! When I first started reading some of his post I thought he was a troll but as I kept reading I'm pretty sure he was a 100% serious which is quite scary.

On another note does anyone know about the race relations between black and white South African Freemasons ?

nancyliedersdeaddog

On another note does anyone know about the race relations between black and white South African Freemasons ?

I do - I am South African.

Race relations are very good. While Freemasonry is not that popular amongst the black population in South Africa, still I would guess that roughly 10-20% of every Lodge is made up of black members.

I'll gladly answer anything you want to know about race relations and Freemasonry in SA.

reply to post by Saurus


Lol... True brother... Missed a dot there, but even with a dot it is still way more than a lot of people can say.
But then again a lot of the charity that the Freemasons do can never be justified in currency. Currency is not everything in life... it is the time you spend at the retirement village reading to the visually impared elderly person that can not read for themselfs any more. Its the Christmas party your Lodge arranged for the local lesser privelaged children, and then spending the day with those children playing with them as if they were your own children.
Maybe if some of the anti-Freemasons here actually take the time to get to know what Freemasonry is realy about by talking to and visiting Lodges they will come to realise what Faith, Hope and Charity means to the Bretheren, and that we do not just talk Faith, Hope and Charity, but we live it every day of our lives, always on the Square, circumvented by the Compass.

Saurus

nancyliedersdeaddog

On another note does anyone know about the race relations between black and white South African Freemasons ?

I do - I am South African.

Race relations are very good. While Freemasonry is not that popular amongst the black population in South Africa, still I would guess that roughly 10-20% of every Lodge is made up of black members.

I'll gladly answer anything you want to know about race relations and Freemasonry in SA.

edit on 24/11/2013 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

Thanks and that's good to hear, I was wondering if any of the black members hold resentment to any of the White members since apartheid was that long ago or white members not being fans of black members? I was also wondering what are the differences between South African Freemasonry and American Freemasonry plus if Catholic's also give masonry a hard time like in America? Thanks

Coming back to Brother Nelson Mandela...
Nelson Mandela was in fact a Freemason according to Grand Master William C. Parker Jr. He was claimed to be "Made a Mason at sight" on 28 June 1990 by Grand Master William C. Parker Jr. of the M.W. Prince Hall Grand Lodge of North Carolina whilst being on a visit to the USA with his ex-wife Winnie. How true this is... I cannot say but this is what is what is rumored.
Personally, I do not know how you become "Mason at sight" and cannot say whether he went through a proper Petition and Ballot as is Masonic custom. Further to this I do also not know whether he was a practicing Mason upon his return to South Africa. Maybe there is someone who can enlighten us as to which Lodge he attended in South Africa?
There are various mixed emotions amongst South Africans about Mandela... There are those that idolize him and those that remember him for the atrocities he committed in the 80's before his jail sentence. Either way, today he is facing his Deity (Maker/God however you want to call HIM for those who do not know what “Deity” means) and in the true spirit of Freemasonry I wish Brother Nelson Mandela well on his journey, for it is not for us as man to judge, but for him (Nelson) to Square with his God.

Never the less, this thread started with a picture of Mandela and claims that he was a Freemason and reference to the handshake... In all fairness, whether he was/ was not a True Mason or just a "Made on sight" (that is, if it is in fact an allowed and an accepted practice in some Lodges and Jurisdictions... I don't know...) is still a mystery and maybe someone can shed Light on the subject of "Mason Made on Sight".

nancyliedersdeaddog : Freemasonry teaches Brotherly Love… It teaches each and every Brother that they are equal irrespective of race, creed, political beliefs, and religious beliefs or standing in society. When you are a Freemason and you live the true Masonic values none of these should be an issue.
I want to come back to what I said in my first post, and that is that if Masonry could be taught to each and every person on this planet, then murder, rape, hatred, racism, greed and all the violent crimes will no longer be… The problem is that Masonry is in fact not for everyone because not all men want to be good… One of the requirements of Masonry is that you must be a good man and you must want to be a better man… Hope this answer some of your questions around Masonry in South Africa…
But all I can say is that we are an well-established Fraternity in South Africa and although not growing as fast as we all wish… we are growing…

tj2402
Never the less, this thread started with a picture of Mandela and claims that he was a Freemason and reference to the handshake...

Appologies... This part referes to a different thread where I am also actively involved.

nancyliedersdeaddog

Thanks and that's good to hear, I was wondering if any of the black members hold resentment to any of the White members since apartheid was that long ago or white members not being fans of black members?

This is a difficult question to answer because appearances and private feelings are not always the same, and what I see may not necessarily always be the case. However, in order for a man to have joined, he must have had a white ball in the ballot from every member of the Lodge. If there was a racist in the Lodge, he could have put in a black ball (which would have been anonymous) to prevent the black candidate from joining. The fact that 10-20% of the membership in most South African Lodges are black members would suggest that nobody is a serious racist.

The other question (about black members holding resentment) is even more difficult to answer. In the older generations, I believe that resentment does exist. However, the younger crowd does not even know what apartheid is - it's something they read about in history books or hear from their grandparents. As a university lecturer, I can see no racism or even any racial tension whatsoever in the 18-30 year old age group. Seeing black and white mixed couples holding hands is every bit as common as same-race relationships. In my research group of 5 postgraduate students, 2 are in mixed-race relationships (both white men and black women.)

In Freemasonry, I would go so far as to say that all black men that I know of are under 40 years of age - and they are the ones who don't hold resentment. As there are no older black men, I can't really give you an answer in this regard.

I was also wondering what are the differences between South African Freemasonry and American Freemasonry plus if Catholic's also give masonry a hard time like in America? Thanks

South African Freemasonry is in amity with American Freemasonry, which means that visitation between the constitutions is allowed. This is only normally allowed if all of the ancient landmarks of the Order are upheld by both constitutions. This means that both are substantially similar in most respects, although they might be small differences within the rituals. Most South Africans Masons (about 60%) are English (United Grand Lodge of England) Masons, but there are four other constitutions present in South Africa, namely the Scottish (not to be confused with the Scottish Rite), the Irish, the South African and the Grand Lodge of the Netherlands.

Catholics are the second largest denomination in South Africa, with 3.3 million members (6% of South Africans), the first being the Zion Christian Church (5 million members, about 14% of South Africans), and the other big one being the the Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk (Dutch Reformed Church, about 1.1 million members (3%).

Of the three, the Zion Christian Church has no problem with Freemasonry at all, the Catholic Church is pretty much silent on the matter, and the Dutch Reformed Church is strongly and actively opposed to Freemasonry.

There are very few Dutch Reformed Church Masons, with the notable exception of one of their pastors, who is in my Mother Lodge (although he is extremely secretive about it outside of Lodge.) We have many Catholics in our Lodges, but few Zion Christian Church Members. The Zion Christian Church has some rather esoteric beliefs (which incorporates Ancestor belief in a similar fashion to how Saints are regarded in Catholisism, except that intercession through all Ancestors is possible in ZCC belief), as well as prophets and prophecies within the church, and few of them feel the need to join Freemasonry.

P.S. The references from which I got my figure are:
Zion Christian Church
Roman Catholicism in South Africa
Dutch Reformed Church

tj2402
Coming back to Brother Nelson Mandela...
Nelson Mandela was in fact a Freemason according to Grand Master William C. Parker Jr. He was claimed to be "Made a Mason at sight" on 28 June 1990 by Grand Master William C. Parker Jr. of the M.W. Prince Hall Grand Lodge of North Carolina whilst being on a visit to the USA with his ex-wife Winnie. How true this is... I cannot say but this is what is what is rumored.

There is no record (in any of the five constitutions within South Africa) of Nelson Mandela ever having been a Mason. I can say with absolute certainty that he was never a South African Mason.

Regarding the rumor, even a diplomat in my Lodge (who knew him personally) never considered him to be a Mason. Personally, I doubt that the rumor is true.

Saurus

tj2402
Coming back to Brother Nelson Mandela...
Nelson Mandela was in fact a Freemason according to Grand Master William C. Parker Jr. He was claimed to be "Made a Mason at sight" on 28 June 1990 by Grand Master William C. Parker Jr. of the M.W. Prince Hall Grand Lodge of North Carolina whilst being on a visit to the USA with his ex-wife Winnie. How true this is... I cannot say but this is what is what is rumored.

There is no record (in any of the five constitutions within South Africa) of Nelson Mandela ever having been a Mason. I can say with absolute certainty that he was never a South African Mason.

Regarding the rumor, even a diplomat in my Lodge (who knew him personally) never considered him to be a Mason. Personally, I doubt that the rumor is true.

Maybe I'm wrong but I would think if that did happened wouldn't of Parker JR. taken some pictures with Mandela handing him an honorary Mason award or something of that natrue? I would also think if that happened it would of been on the Prince hall websites/literature and would of been pretty big news for Freemasonry as a whole. Even if Freemasonry gave Mandela some honorary Freemasonry award like they did with Regan that doesn't really make him an actual Freemason or means Mandela ever took part in normal Freemasonry work.

nancyliedersdeaddog

Maybe I'm wrong but I would think if that did happened wouldn't of Parker JR. taken some pictures with Mandela handing him an honorary Mason award or something of that natrue?

Not necessarily...

We have had a head of state visit my Lodge, and we did not publicize it at all, since that person is not open about his involvement in the Order.

Saurus

nancyliedersdeaddog

Maybe I'm wrong but I would think if that did happened wouldn't of Parker JR. taken some pictures with Mandela handing him an honorary Mason award or something of that natrue?

Not necessarily...

We have had a head of state visit my Lodge, and we did not publicize it at all, since that person is not open about his involvement in the Order.

edit on 9/12/2013 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

Was the head of state an actual member who has been involved with Freemasonry and taken part in rituals? That makes sense but do you still think Mandela would be worried about people finding out about him getting an honorary Masonry award? I know many anti-masons can be wack jobs and may be dangerous enemies but no one should be worried about people finding out they are a part of Masonry. It's sad that some people have to hide their membership from a group like Freemasonry but I think that says more about the world we live in then the person, if that makes sense.

nancyliedersdeaddog
That makes sense but do you still think Mandela would be worried about people finding out about him getting an honorary Masonry award?

While the intent may be honorary the result is if a Grand Master makes someone a Mason on sight then for all intents and purposes they are a Mason entitled to all the rights and privileges of the Fraternity in that Grand Jurisdiction and all that have amity with it.

AugustusMasonicus

nancyliedersdeaddog
That makes sense but do you still think Mandela would be worried about people finding out about him getting an honorary Masonry award?

While the intent may be honorary the result is if a Grand Master makes someone a Mason on sight then for all intents and purposes they are a Mason entitled to all the rights and privileges of the Fraternity in that Grand Jurisdiction and all that have amity with it.

Did the Masons make Regan a Mason on site or just him an honorary award and are they kind of the same thing? I guess Freemasonry kind of does honorary membership like my college fraternity did in the past with special members. Does the Mason on sight usually go through the first 3 degrees or really involved in meetings?

Edit: Btw did anyone see Mo Rocca's recent story on Freemasonry which talks about the dollar bill and other Freemasonry conspiracies. They interviewed UCLA history professor Margaret Jacob who I guess is one of the world's leading experts on Freemasonry.
Inside the secret world of the Freemasons

reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog


Reagan was made an honorary Scottish Rite member.

The Grand Master of D.C. presented President Reagan with a "Certificate of Honor," which said that President Reagan's life was a testament to his firm belief in brotherly love, relief, and truth, and his service to the public has broadened the applications of temperance, fortitude, prudence, and justice to the benefit of all mankind. This Certificate further said that in recognition of President Reagan's efforts to promote good will and understanding throughout the world, this certificate was issued to him by the Grand Master of D.C. on February 11, 1988. A complete copy of the Certificate is printed at page 67 of the 1988 D.C. Proceedings.

Link to source

He didn't have any special rights to anything, but he did get a nice plaque.