Give DNA or no job; A.F.P.

Please describe to me and to this board how one can fail a drug test and not having taken a certain drug.

Let's start with these.

'___'
Cocaine
Heroine

When you go for a drug test (I hate repeating myself), and the doctor ask's if you've been on any medication, you tell him what medication you've taken prior to the drug test. Obviously you wouldn't have a doctor's note for over the counter medication's and I'm sure the doctor's are intelligent enought to realize this. They'll most likely reschedual the appointment for a later time when the drug's affect's in the body are gone.

Why should I have to take any drug tests, if I can do my job perfectly. Why does it matter?

Why should you care of your not abusing drugs? Why does it matter?

Originally posted by Produkt
Why should you care of your not abusing drugs?

Stop accusing people that dont agree with your naive rhetoric of abusing drugs. You don't know me, thus you have no basis for implying that I use drugs.
.

Originally posted by Produkt

Would you care to elaborate what your point is?

abusable way to hell and back, DNA evidence is considered infallible, when it isn't. add hostile intent and this is going to be used to frame people, it's only a matter of time, the options are there.

and you pretend not to see it collectivist? you expect me to buy that? it works BOTH WAYS, and if it takes a role-reversal to show that, then so be it.



btw, i feel harrassed by your post so i'll kindly ask the HSS to put you into jail indefintiely under terrorist's provisions, k?

you again pretend not to see that such 'provisions' are as flexible as power is corrupting? no, i'm defintiely not gonna buy it.

PS: man is not god and if he pretends he will get what he deserves.

Originally posted by Produkt
They'll most likely reschedual the appointment for a later time when the drug's affect's in the body are gone.

Which shows why they do not work. "Go away, come back in four weeks" all that happens is people will not take drugs for four weeks and take them once they pass the test.

Originally posted by Produkt
Why should you care of your not abusing drugs? Why does it matter?

Well you see, working in a club you tend to find out that you are passively taking drugs even if you do not desire to. Many people go to these clubs, in fact the one I work at has up to 2500 people on anyone night. Those people could fail drug tests and never have taken drugs. This isn't fair on them as they have done nothing wrong.

Originally posted by Produkt
Please describe to me and to this board how one can fail a drug test and not having taken a certain drug.
...

Why should you care of your not abusing drugs? Why does it matter?

because the EU and WHO are trying to ban ever more supplements and substances, i don't want to go to jail for violating Codex Alimentarius, under which simple things as vitamin C would become prescribed drugs, that's why.

why does it matter? because your kind will be no longer welcome once your system of control freaks falls.

cheers, collectivist.

Please describe to me and to this board how one can fail a drug test and not having taken a certain drug.

Let's start with these.

'___'
Cocaine
Heroine

Again, you just post that it happen's without showing evidence that it does. I've never heard of anyone failing a drug test from going to a bar.

df1,

I don't believe I've accused anyone of taking drug's. Nice try though

Long Lance,

btw, i feel harrassed by your post so i'll kindly ask the HSS to put you into jail indefintiely under terrorist's provisions, k?

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
1 : the unlawful use or threat of violence esp. against the state or the public as a politically motivated means of attack or coercion
2 : violent and intimidating gang activity —ter·ror·ist /-ist/ adj or noun —ter·ror·is·tic /"ter-&r-'is-tik/ adjective.

You right there, by definition and new law (since you want to try and use it against me) just commited an act of terrorism. I haven't harrassed nor threatened you. I've disussed opossing view's to your's. This is after all a discussion board.

2002 Winter Olympics, Canadian Snowborder failed and didn't smoke any drugs. Ross Rebagliati was the guys name. So there is an example for you.

Edit: 1998 not 2002.

[edit on 10/1/2006 by Odium]

When good people of society who don't do drugs or commit a crime have to do something compulsory such as a drug test, they feel bad about themeselves. They're being associated with people who are bad and criminals who are ruining society. I've asked people if they feel concerned about the increasing level of surveillance, and they are concerned as they say it's an invasion of their privacy. You might think it isn't, but these people get depressed and upset about these associations.

I know it's an entirely different case, but imagine carpet bombing. People who've done nothing wrong have to suffer to what bad people are doing.

That's why some of us are concerned.

Why would you feel bad about a drug test or even think it mean's your bad? That to me make's no sense. We have drug test's for a reason, it doesn't mean anyone is accusing anyone of taking drug's and those who don't take drug's have nothing to worry about and nothing to fear. All this surveillance you see nowadays is becuase there simply isn't enough manpower. The police need as much help finding and catching criminals and terrorist's. No one's invading anyone's privacy, unless of course someone breaks the law, in which they SHOULD be punished for it. We don't have law's just to make people think they're safe, we have laws to ENFORCE and make sure people ARE safe. So long as you abide by the law's, there's no problem's. Simple concept for anyone to grasp. If your unhappy with law's, atleast here in the USA you can vote and take an active role in politic's to change thing's and no, voting isn't useless, sitting on your butt is useless.

[EDIT] I would be more concerned if criminals had an easier chance to commit crime's against us. That should be what everyone is thinking about, not this woe is me crap. But no, no one wants to hear that, they openly claim that this isn't what it's being used for and yet post articles that discuss that it's being used for just that! Oh but it can't be, it's *really secretly* being used like this, but I refuse to post evidence of such. See my problem concerning alot of this?

[edit on 10-1-2006 by Produkt]

Can someone explain why the government would want to frame anyone on this website. Please.. do elaborate on your fear's.

I didn't say the government. I said this puts a lot of power into the hands of the police. While I'm not a criminal, nor do I have any kind of record, I've had enough experiences and times I've witnessed abuse of police power... Enough to know that the level of corruption in such organizations is far too great to instil them with this kind of power...

No, I don't feel that any entity has it "out for me".....but, in a simple matter of child custody, I've had officers of the court, show my own mother and brother falsified arrest records, etc.! So yes, I could be a little paranoid on this. Luckily, both knew I'd never even set foot in the state in question, but it took me actually having to go to my lawyer, getting a certified copy of my clean legal record, etc. to prove this once and for all TO MY OWN FAMILY!!! The court did so to purposefully cause a family rift at that time, as the State Attourney had a desired outcome. Of course, they chalked it up to a clerical error afterwards.... Even if that was the case, now we're looking at giving that kind of power to an INCOMPETENT agency... Either way, it isn't a good thing.

As for why a frame...it could be a random pinning, for one's own crime for example. It could be personal, even something as trivial as a neighbor's dog who poops on an officer's lawn, so the officer decides to implicate said neighbor in a robbery, etc. These are only a couple examples of course. My point is....such power needs to be checked and balanced by other agencies, civillian agencies, to help reduce the chance of corruption by one element.

When you've had someone tell you're mom you're a pothead and criminal (when you don't even smoke cigarettes or drink much) and then show her black and white "proof" that supports the lie....THEN you can talk to me about the lack of police corruption...but till then....please do try and see my point here.....

Produkt, it is known as labelling theory and the self-fulfilling prophecy. It is a rather credible and heavily accepted theory, first put forward by Howard Becker.

If people are treated like a criminal, they begin to associate themselves with those criminals and can fall into the same sub-culture as them. Initially it seems foolish, but when you begin to work with criminals especailly teenagers it is a very credible theory.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience's. My own mother has abused the legal system herself against my grandfather and won even though he did nothing wrong. She's even threatened to do it to my sister, told me she was going to call DSS basicly because she was mad at her. Of course I told my sister and now I don't talk to my mom period.

Point is, yes... the system can and does get abused.

My point is....such power needs to be checked and balanced by other agencies, civillian agencies, to help reduce the chance of corruption by one element.

Your right, it does need to be checked and balanced, this is exactly why I keep repeating myself over and over again that people should be taking a more active role in politic's. No one want's to hear that though becuase voting is "useless". Because of people like this, this is why there's so much corruption in politic's, people stopped caring and so did the politician's and it get's worse year by year as less people give a damn about excerscing they're right to vote.

Odium,

Really now? I've had my fair share of drug test's yet I've never once associated myself with criminals. I've dropped high school friend's who were obviously headed down the wrong track so to speak. Not once did I ever think of myself like that due to a drug test. Nor does taking a drug test label you as a drug abuser. Nor does taking a drug test in any way treat you as a criminal. It's ultimatly up to the person to decide what they do and what they don't so with their live's. Hence my siggy: Homo Est Deus. You choose your own destiny, to put the blame on other's is truly foolish and a sincere scapegoat tactic to weasle out of accepting your own responibilities.

It might not make sense to you, but does neccessarily mean it isn't right.
Just because it may not apply to you, doesn't mean it applies to everyone else.


[edit on 10-1-2006 by mashup]

For the record, I do vote, and even in local elections and more than once every 4 years. I'm a registered Independent (now), after leaving the Republican Party a few years back...mostly due to resident monkey in charge.

Produkt, where do I say it applies to everyone? Where do I say it applies to you? I don't.

In fact, I am wise enough to mention a "Sub-culture", in fact not the whole of society or every member of it. The fact is, Howard Becker and his theory has been accepted because he has been able to show it in practice. It isn't an excuse, it is in fact a very credible argeument and one which has caused a lot of positive change.

The fact you do not know the basics of the thoery, as clear by your comments directed at MashUp show you do not have the right to critically evaluate the theory.

If people allow themselve's to think they are being labeled as criminals or drug abuser's then I would take a guess that those people have low self esteem issue's. Fact is, a drug test isn't labeling you as anything, it's just a requirement to weed out those who do abuse drugs and to ensure employee's don't abuse drug's after obtaining the job. Putting camera's up to catch criminals isn't saying you personally are a criminal, it's just there to PROTECT you from criminals. Either it's low self esteem or people are reading into thing's way to much to the point that they see what they want to see.

To deny the fact that you control yourself and are accountable for your own actions in life is, to me... ridiculous. Homo Est Deus applies to every man, woman and child on this planet. What you allow and or choose is of your own responsability. Again, taking an active role in politic's can change a whole hell of alot more then you give it credit for.

Originally posted by Gazrok
For the record, I do vote, and even in local elections and more than once every 4 years. I'm a registered Independent (now), after leaving the Republican Party a few years back...mostly due to resident monkey in charge.

Good, your doing you part. Hopefully those who post here that voting is useless can be persuaded to do the same!

What about in an interrogation when someone who's perfectly innocent gets upset and feels like they've been violated and then they cry about all the pressure?

Yeh, they aren't a criminal but they still suffer under the system.


Similarly to random body searches. Someone who's innocent has been picked out and obviously slightly suspected even though they're really completely innocent. The same applies to the vast amount of surveillance.
I'm not bothered about the surveillance but others are.
At the airports, my mum is called out for extra baggage search because of her Australian passport (I think that's why) when we're travelling from the UK to the USA and she feels hassled and annoyed.
Would a housewife in a nice part of south London really be capable of comitting a huge act of terroism? No, I highly doubt it.

Originally posted by Produkt
Either it's low self esteem or people are reading into thing's way to much to the point that they see what they want to see.

Doubtful they are finding what they want to see, it has been around since 1963 and many people have questionned it and never been able to disproove it. Calling a child a failure doesn't make it one, but it can start to believe that it is and this is what these sort of tests do.

Originally posted by Produkt
Again, taking an active role in politic's can change a whole hell of alot more then you give it credit for.

You assume I do not.

Isn't the whole point of ATS that we take an active role in politics?
Even discussions are more effective as doing nothing.