Has Pat Robertson lost his mind?

Originally posted by dbrandt
God has not replaced Israel with anyone ...

Hey! We found something we agree on.

Originally posted by dbrandt
I just thought of something else. Iran is mentioned as a troublemaker for Israel in the last days. That appears to be happening now. The world's eyes are being drawn there.

[edit on 12-1-2006 by dbrandt]

What do you mean by "Iran is mentioned as a trouble maker for isreal in the last days."?

Originally posted by Sight2reality
[What do you mean by "Iran is mentioned as a trouble maker for isreal in the last days."?

Persia is very easy to identify. Essentially, Persia is modern day Iran. Many Iranians in America, if asked where they are from, will simply say they are from Persia. In fact Iran was still called Persia until 1935. Obviously Iran is a predominantly Muslim nation. While there are some wonderful signs of change in Iran due to a growing dissatisfaction with Islam among Iran’s massive youth population, it does not seem likely that a majority of Iranians will leave behind its Islamic roots anytime soon.

Ezek.38
[1] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[2] Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
[3] And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
[4] And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
[5] PERSIA, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
[6] Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
[7] Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
[8] After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
[9] Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
[10] Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
[11] And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
[12] To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
[13] Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
[14] Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
[15] And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
[16] And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
[17] Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
[18] And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
[19] For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
[20] So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
[21] And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
[22] And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
[23] Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ezek.39
[1] Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
[2] And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
[3] And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
[4] Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
[5] Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
[6] And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
[7] So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
[8] Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
[9] And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
[10] So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
[11] And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamon-gog.
[12] And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
[13] Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
[14] And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
[15] And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamon-gog.
[16] And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.
[17] And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
[18] Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
[19] And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
[20] Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
[21] And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
[22] So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
[23] And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
[24] According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
[25] Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
[26] After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
[27] When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
[28] Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
[29] Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

so, dbrandt, are you stating that islam will be the ultimate trouble for israel, though one of the tennants of islam is that judaeic belief is respectable?

or is it just that people with powerful methods of persuasion have been able to twist islam to suit their needs, thus creating a problem for israel?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
so, dbrandt, are you stating that islam will be the ultimate trouble for israel, though one of the tennants of islam is that judaeic belief is respectable?

They already are and will continue to be a persecuter of Jews and christians.

I just looked at some verses of the koran that tell that Christians and Jews are wrong in their beliefs.

really, because that's probably a mistranslation...

islam holds that all who believe in the one god are believers.

HOWEVER, it does say to not take them as friends, because christians and jews are friends to one another...

the only people considered "disbelievers" or "infidels" are polytheists...

yeah, islam is actually more tolerant than christianity, it holds that all sinners make it to heaven, after a certain allotted period of time. well, unless you've committed true atrocities (ie hitler) which can be punished for all eternity.

islam has been distorted by certain extremists, i'll give you that. but only these distortions are dangerous.

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)



"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

Sorry, but I do not believe that it is not at war with anyone who does not follow islam. And even then the different sects of islam are at war with each other.

YES ... he has lost it. Dementia perhaps. But he has lost it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Apparently Israel doesn't want him around any more.
Many evangelicals are distancing themselves from him as well.
He should retire while he still has some dignity left.
Actually... for that he should have retired years ago.

Originally posted by dbrandt
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)



"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

Sorry, but I do not believe that it is not at war with anyone who does not follow islam. And even then the different sects of islam are at war with each other.

and the bible isn't 10x as intolerant and violent??? :bnghd:

i see the quran speaking against idolatry, i see you taking the phrase, those to whom the scriptures were given, which should translated as those who refused the scriptures (ie those who refused to become monotheists) and making it into the single violent passage against christianity.

islam only has a problem with idolatry and polytheism.

christianity has a bible full of [expletive deleted]

[link]http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ [/link]

a source pointing out problems in the bible, quran, and the book of mormon.

i'm not saying islam isn't intolerant, but it isn't as bad as christianity.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and the bible isn't 10x as intolerant and violent???

Ahhh .. but the old testament tolerates one thing ... rape.
It not only tolerates it, the OT encourages it.
Moses himself told his followers to go and kill all of the enemy
except the young virgin girls that they could keep for themselves
for 'fun'. (so much for Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry).

Seriously -

Both the Bible and the Quran have a whole lot of violence,
rape, and mass death. However, the NEW TESTAMENT of
scripture is very different from the Old Testament and it
does not demand the deaths of 'unbelievers', whereas
almost the entire Quran does.

It's almost too bad that the bible comes with the Old Testament.




[edit on 1/16/2006 by FlyersFan]

of course, all monotheistic religion is violent.

however, there aren't really degrees of violence when it comes to them because they all go off the chart.

Besides Joel 3:2 being referenced for his remarks, there is a point in Daniel that needs to be remembered.


Daniel 2:20
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:

2:21
And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Originally posted by dbrandt
Besides Joel 3:2 being referenced for his remarks, there is a point in Daniel that needs to be remembered.


Daniel 2:20
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:

2:21
And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

....this is relevant to pat robertson possibly being insane HOW?

bring this up in a forum relating to something other than a specific fundamentalist going batcrap insane.

I imagine membership has to be down (lets hope) and they live up to the name the "700 Club"

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

....this is relevant to pat robertson possibly being insane HOW?

bring this up in a forum relating to something other than a specific fundamentalist going batcrap insane.

This is about the fact that this time while what he said irritates alot of people, he was right that God is in charge.

Originally posted by dbrandt
This is about the fact that this time while what he said irritates alot of people, he was right that God is in charge.

"Gis is in charge" is fantasy, not fact.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

....this is relevant to pat robertson possibly being insane HOW?

bring this up in a forum relating to something other than a specific fundamentalist going batcrap insane.

This is about the fact that this time while what he said irritates alot of people, he was right that God is in charge.

you can't prove that....
:bnghd:

i'd say a good 80% of what pat robertson says is crap. there are boatloads of quotes from him being openly hateful towards women, minorities, nonjudeo-christians, liberals, and anyone who doesn't agree with him. he abandoned his family to pursue his current career, and he is the #1 most hated christian the world over.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by dbrandt
This is about the fact that this time while what he said irritates alot of people, he was right that God is in charge.

you can't prove that....
:bnghd:

Daniel 2:21
And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God:the powers that be are ordained of God.

the bible proves NOTHING

it may be a decent religious text, but it is hardly something you can use outside of a purely theological argument.

just because god CAN do something, doesn't mean god/it/he/she/thing/whatever will.

bring up one extrabiblical case of god deposing a monarch or other chief executive, and i will consider that passage to be proof.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the bible proves NOTHING

it may be a decent religious text, but it is hardly something you can use outside of a purely theological argument.

And that is your choice to believe that. A choice that you have to live with.
Many others know different.