Refuse being RFID tagged in UK..

The list of things being monitored by our Government is now being added to by refuse bins. I first became aware of it yesterday when my missus saw a tiny snippet in the corner of a late page in the national newspaper regarding the microchipping of bins by one of the councils.
The reason given was to be able to tell who was not recycling rubbish correctly and to track stolen bins.
Of course this means everything you throw away will now be catalogued to YOU. Don't tyhink you can go down to the local tip instead though, ours has had ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) in place for sometimes now (they even have a display which says welcome and your reg when you drive in), so they know what you throw away there too.
Hopefully you will have nothing to hide.. I found the following pages which talk about this happening:

RFID Bins in Leeds

'Chip and bin' to measure waste

A Norfolk council is soon to become the first in the country to provide all its residents with new wheelie bins, which will use microchip technology to encourage householders to increase the amount they recycle and reuse.

South Norfolk Council has already distributed the grey rubbish bins and green recycling bins to 70 per cent of its eligible residents, and by the end of the year will be the first council able to monitor electronically how much waste every household is sending to landfill or recycling.


South Norfolk pioneers new microchip bin

[edit on 4-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

Well thats a new one for the books.

Pets Cars Tyres and now Bins and a few people, i cant think of anymore?

My guess they are using rfid`s so`s they will become so common place, people wont be so reluctant in the future to have the implanted.

It's amazing to me how something as measuring how much waste is actually being recycled can be twisted by some to mean an evil plot to take over the world. My word of advise to those who see this as an evil plot of the NWO... Grow up.

Originally posted by Produkt
It's amazing to me how something as measuring how much waste is actually being recycled can be twisted by some to mean an evil plot to take over the world. My word of advise to those who see this as an evil plot of the NWO... Grow up.

OK...but what if you are wrong? You'd grow up prety quick.

Its good to at least question these things. Question answers. Governments are notorious for being shady ever since the beginning of governmental systems. Telling someone to grow up for acknowledging something like this says a lot about your character...

[edit on 5-1-2006 by Jiffy]

Originally posted by Produkt
It's amazing to me how something as measuring how much waste is actually being recycled can be twisted by some to mean an evil plot to take over the world. My word of advise to those who see this as an evil plot of the NWO... Grow up.

You have to look beyond what the tell you - they will be able to monitor whatever you throw away - obviously not a problem if you have nothing to hide. While I don't agree it's a plot to get everyone used to having RFID technology around, it's another step to everything we do being recorded onto a database.

They'll be monitoring when you take a leak next too.. Think I'm joking?

Clever toilet checks on your health

Yes I know it is for health monitoring, but it could equally check for any naughty substances, alcohol, etc.

First, let me say that while this thread is in the NWO forum, I make no representations concerning that subject...

In terms of the following quote, however, I'd caution you on being so short sighted...

Originally posted by Produkt
It's amazing to me how something as measuring how much waste is actually being recycled can be twisted by some to mean an evil plot to take over the world. My word of advise to those who see this as an evil plot of the NWO... Grow up.

No evil plot necessary...simple commercial interest alone will suffice.

As RFIDs become more prevalent in all of our consumer goods think of what that actually means. Insurers, retailers, credit granters, and employers may learn and know more about you, than you do yourself.

How? Every purchase you make can and will be traced back to you. Your consumption habits will be statistically modeled....decisions on whether you are employed, insured or even potentially how much you are to pay for services and goods will be decided upon such data.

Will you know who has access to such data?

Will you even know what data is available on you?

Will you know what assumptions or decisions will be made on the basis of such data?

What meaningful oversight will be applied to the use and distribution of such data?

What avenues of appeal will be made available in cases of abuse?

I get the sense that if anyone really thought about what this means, they would be terrified at the prospect of where this technology is leading us.

Think carefully next time before you so easily dispense with the advice that someone needs to "grow up".

IMO, I think the problem is that some people need to wake up.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by loam]

How exactly can they monitor every peice of trash you throw away in an evil plot to get information they already have on you? Seriously... think about it. How is a toilet that monitor's your health a bad thing? Do you goto your physicals every year, do you see the doctor when your really sick? Even if they monitor for substance's that you SHOULDN'T have in the first place, this would cut down how many low life drug lords are out there... yea, that sound's horrible

RFID can't read your mail or letter's that are covered in waste. There's no need to fear the almighty power of RFID relaying how much waste you toss out compared to how much is in your recycling bin's. It's just for statistical purpose's, and for a good reason! Not enough people RECYCLE, hence the reason for discovering who's helping the enviroment and who's not. It doesn't sound like an evil plot to me

This evil toilet... Cost's $3,500... How many average american household's do you picture justifying $3500 on a toilet like this? It's only sold 100 so far, which says something right there. Unless the government started FORCING ALL household's to use this toilet, there's nothing to fear from a damn toilet.

As for my character. No, what does it say when one use's comon sense and rational thinking to understand these technologies can't be of much use for any orginization to gather any sort of information against you and that there are a hell of alot more mean's of getting information about you that YOU freely give away? I'm not sure I follow you there...

Originally posted by loam
First, let me say that while this thread is in the NWO forum, I make no representations concerning that subject...
[edit on 5-1-2006 by loam]

The problem is, there's no need for any orginization to use RFID tagging of any kind to gather information on you. YOU and everyone else already freely GIVE'S away this information to ANYONE willing to look for it. Even I could learn alot about you with a little effort. It doesn't matter what technology is used, they've already been gathering information well before RFID that everyone has freely given themselve's. This whole RFID crap can't be used much beyond, maybe checking on what you buy. What damage is it going to if someone know's you bought a box of tampon's at the quickie mart for $5.99?

One other thing... if your so concerned. Goto your town meeting's. Every town has them. Voice your opinion's and view's on RFID tag's discovering if your doing your part in recycling and helping our enviroment. Voice your opinion's on shopping center's and credit agencies from discovering that you like porn or buy tampon's every month and targetting ad's to you towards the product's you buy.

Originally posted by Produkt
The problem is, there's no need for any orginization to use RFID tagging of any kind to gather information on you. YOU and everyone else already freely GIVE'S away this information to ANYONE willing to look for it. Even I could learn alot about you with a little effort. It doesn't matter what technology is used, they've already been gathering information well before RFID that everyone has freely given themselve's.

While to some small degree you are correct, much information is already collected without RFID technology, the scale of information potentially available now would all together be another matter.

Originally posted by Produkt
This whole RFID crap can't be used much beyond, maybe checking on what you buy. What damage is it going to if someone know's you bought a box of tampon's at the quickie mart for $5.99?

Perhaps I do not wish to employ or insure someone who eats an unhealthy diet... or does not wear their running shoes often enough... or spends too much idle time on their couch... or uses products I do not like for whatever reason...

Get the picture?

Originally posted by loam
Perhaps I do not wish to employ or insure someone who eats an unhealthy diet... or does not wear their running shoes often enough... or spends too much idle time on their couch... or uses products I do not like for whatever reason...

Get the picture?

Thankfully we have law's against discrimination, and since when do employer's even have access to this kind of knowledge that if they truley wanted it could get it already without RFID?

Get the picture?

Originally posted by Produkt
Thankfully we have law's against discrimination, and since when do employer's even have access to this kind of knowledge that if they truley wanted it could get it already without RFID?

Get the picture?

I don't know where you reside, but in the US discrimination only applies if it is based on a "protected class"...ie. race, religion, sex, etc...

There is no law that prevents an employer from "discriminating" against all people who wear yellow shoes...

You couldn't be more wrong about what information is currently used by insurers, employers, retailers and credit grantors...

I suggest you do some research to verify what I say. It is very enlightening.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by loam]

Well, since your the one making the claim's... How about you back them up?

In all honesty tho, who in they're right mind would use what you buy to determine if they should hire you? There may be no law against it, but anyone who isn't dishonest and immoral wouldn't use such information against you. The only thing you have to fear are immoral, indescent and discriminating folk's. As you claim, they already got all sort's of information... which I do believe they do (but not for evil purposes as I've yet to see anything evil come of it)... Then why all this mumbo jumbo over RFID? The technology itself isn't usefull for gathering anything new that they wouldn't have or could obtain through traditional mean's. By all mean's, from my job history no employer in they're right mind should hire me. I have a bad habit of job hopping. My longest place was just short of two year's. Thing's like that an employer would be more concerned about, not the colour of my shoes or the product's I buy.

Honestly, you sound nothing more then a paranoid delusionist.

Originally posted by Produkt
Well, since your the one making the claim's... How about you back them up?

In all honesty tho, who in they're right mind would use what you buy to determine if they should hire you?

Would this example suffice?

Company demands workers quit smoking to keep jobs

Originally posted by Produkt
There may be no law against it, but anyone who isn't dishonest and immoral wouldn't use such information against you. The only thing you have to fear are immoral, indescent and discriminating folk's.

A free market business, if it wishes to survive, requires it to have only one guiding principal....Profit. That, btw, is not a political statement. It's a statement of fact. I have expressed no judgment concerning that fact. If you work for a business, regardless of the position, your only real purpose from the perspective of the business is to further profitability. Plain and simple. Businesses who fail to recognize this principle ultimately fail, and those business which adhere to the principle tend to survive...and in fact, dominate the market.

Therefore, in the absence of minimal regulation, trusting in the morality of a business to operate in your best interest is hardly effective. Businesses who would do so, would do so at their own peril- if done as consistently as I assume you would envision.

Originally posted by Produkt
As you claim, they already got all sort's of information... which I do believe they do (but not for evil purposes as I've yet to see anything evil come of it)... Then why all this mumbo jumbo over RFID?

Because what information is available now (and trust me, it is a lot) is a drop in the bucket. RFID offers the opportunity to deliver the entire bucket!

Don't get me wrong. Much good can also come out of RFID usage. For example, imagine how much science about humanity we will learn. We have never had such data available before.

In my view, the more I study and contemplate RFID technology, the more I am convinced it is a silent revolution taking place in human society. Such new knowledge about ourselves will certainly change the way we behave in substantial ways.

But this too, in my view, is not a political statement. The technology is here to stay and the only question remains, are we clear what we intend to do with it?

Originally posted by Produkt
The technology itself isn't usefull for gathering anything new that they wouldn't have or could obtain through traditional mean's. By all mean's, from my job history no employer in they're right mind should hire me. I have a bad habit of job hopping. My longest place was just short of two year's. Thing's like that an employer would be more concerned about, not the colour of my shoes or the product's I buy.

Again, I think you do not understand how the technology is being used even now...or intended to be used in the future.

Let's try a little hypothetical...

In the spirit of the typical subject matter of ATS, I'll use mind reading. (Again, this is a hypothetical. I am making no statement concerning that subject.)

Imagine that mind reading was easily achievable... Let's say that only a certain proportion of the population could achieve it. Pick a number, it doesn't matter. The point remains the same. How would that change society? What implications would that suggest?

Now imagine a scale. On one end is knowing nothing about humanity, and on the other end is knowing everything. Where on the scale does the hypothetical fall? And, where does the state of our knowledge today fall in comparison?

RFID technology has the potential to push us forward on the knowledge scale in ways that will certainly have a profound effect on us. This isn't a small step on that scale....it will be a substantial leap!

Of course, you may continue to believe otherwise.

My view is that it would be prudent to contemplate as a society ways we might wish to manage such technology. The potential consequence of doing nothing might be more than the mere nuisance you assume it to be.

Originally posted by Produkt
Honestly, you sound nothing more then a paranoid delusionist.

...which is always the appropriate thing to call someone when you have no intention of doing the necessary research yourself to see if the facts support such crazy notions.

It's easier to accept ignorance.

I suppose in your world view, I shouldn't look both ways before crossing the street.

Scotts, which made $100 million on sales of $2.3 billion in its last fiscal year, has 6,000 employees in the United States and overseas. It said it can fire smokers legally in 21 states. "We're being as aggressive as the law will allow us," Hagedorn said.

Notice the word legally.

Business may be about profit, but could you please point out how what product's you buy or the colour of your shoe's would affect another companies business.

There's not much use for RFID as far as gaining much information about you. Your credit card's already show what you buy. Your medical record's easily obtainable by any government agency. Criminal's can pick through your trash and steal your identity. Again... I ask you, what's with the mumbo jumbo over RFID?

All the application's I've seen for RFID are of no threat to anyone and in no way even implicate a possible NWO plot. This is where the paranoid delusionism come's into play. What your doing is twisting a new technology and claiming some secret orginization is out to get us using said technology and your sole proof come's from like minded people. The only people who would use this technology or even think of uses for such technology are dishonest immoral people. Such people wouldn't survive long as soon as the mass's caught on to any such use of said technology.

Originally posted by Produkt

Scotts, which made $100 million on sales of $2.3 billion in its last fiscal year, has 6,000 employees in the United States and overseas. It said it can fire smokers legally in 21 states. "We're being as aggressive as the law will allow us," Hagedorn said.

Notice the word legally.

Your point? You objected to the notion that it was done. With the RFID information about you, is it a vast expansion in logic to assume that employers will consider other behaviors that impact your expense or productivity to them? How about insurance carriers who are supposed to make such assessments about you? ...too many cream filled cookies, and you might pay more that the next guy.

Originally posted by Produkt
Business may be about profit, but could you please point out how what product's you buy or the colour of your shoe's would affect another companies business.

I'm not sure I understand your precise question, but I think you are asking why they would care? Competitive advantage...Marketing... Product development... etc...

Originally posted by Produkt
There's not much use for RFID as far as gaining much information about you. Your credit card's already show what you buy. Your medical record's easily obtainable by any government agency. Criminal's can pick through your trash and steal your identity. Again... I ask you, what's with the mumbo jumbo over RFID?

And again, it is clear you do not understand the technology's uses and potential applications.

A credit card purchase might show me that you bought a block of cheese or a pair of jeans, but RFID will tell me how long it took you to eat the cheese and how frequently you wore those jeans...on what days...and in what locations...and for how long before washing...etc...

Remember, RFID has the potential to provide a vast amount of new data concerning you that without such technology would otherwise be impossible to know easily or at all.

Think about it.

Also, are you comfortable with the fact that someone else may potentially know more about you than you do yourself? Can you tell me with precision the details of your daily, weekly, yearly behavior? RFID data minors could potentially do so, when you wouldn't.

Originally posted by Produkt
All the application's I've seen for RFID are of no threat to anyone and in no way even implicate a possible NWO plot. This is where the paranoid delusionism come's into play. What your doing is twisting a new technology and claiming some secret orginization is out to get us using said technology and your sole proof come's from like minded people. The only people who would use this technology or even think of uses for such technology are dishonest immoral people. Such people wouldn't survive long as soon as the mass's caught on to any such use of said technology.

Then you obviously do not read my posts closely. I began in this thread with:

Originally posted by loam
First, let me say that while this thread is in the NWO forum, I make no representations concerning that subject...

Moreover, my comments have remained on the potential benefits and perils of the commercial usage of such technology. I have not even expressed the potential issues surrounding government or criminal usage, which will certainly also be the case.

Why bother reading this thread at all???

If you wish to be the farmer who denies the Industrial Revolution, then so be it. I am merely pointing out how profound RFID technology will be to our society. That is all.

You can safely go back to sleep now.



[edit on 5-1-2006 by loam]

Im flabbergasted. (I always wanted to use that word) So now they can track down whatever you throw away, and its pinned on you. Somehow that seems like invasion of privacy, but there is probaly something im missing. And I can already see flaws with this. What if I wanted to get rid of a gun, or perhaps frame someone. Then I could put it in their refuse bin, and it would be pinned on them. Like I said, im probally missing something very simple.

Lizard,

No RFID can't tell WHAT you throw away. It doesn't know the difference between a gun and a tampon.

Loam,

The point being, if a company can LEGALLY fire you based on health or other reason's as set forth in the law's of the state or country, then no amount of technology is going to change the fact that they can legally do so.

I'm not sure I understand your precise question, but I think you are asking why they would care? Competitive advantage...Marketing... Product development... etc...

Ok... Now would you kindly please point out how the colour of your shoes or what product's you buy relate's to all that. To me, it doesn't make much sense at all.

A credit card purchase might show me that you bought a block of cheese or a pair of jeans, but RFID will tell me how long it took you to eat the cheese and how frequently you wore those jeans...on what days...and in what locations...and for how long before washing...etc...

RFID can't be used to tell how long it took you to eat something. From all that you posted here, please point out what your fear's are and how this could potentially tie into some evil NWO plot. Honestly, any orginization wouldn't give damn if you washed your clothes or not.

Also, are you comfortable with the fact that someone else may potentially know more about you than you do yourself? Can you tell me with precision the details of your daily, weekly, yearly behavior? RFID data minors could potentially do so, when you wouldn't.

Think about this... People find out there's such a thing going on and you can kiss RFID buh bye's. People would revolt against the use of such technology. As we've seen, it's not all that hard for people to discover when someone's using technology in a bad way. There's alot of people developing and watching RFID technology, someone would be bound to notice if it were being used in an evil NWO plot.

Then you obviously do not read my posts closely. I began in this thread with:

On the contrary, I have been reading your post's carefully. Granted you didn't come out and cry NWO take over, flee for your live's. This topic does belong in the NWO forum, suggest's an NWO plot, and I'm trying to stay on topic.

If you can't stay on topic of the forum/post then why bother posting? What your saying would belong in the sci/tech and as far as I know, your well within your right's on the board to start a new thread concerning the commercial aspect's of RFID in the sci/tech forum.

I also forgot to add... RFID is a radio transmitter. It is still bound by the law's of radio transmission. In order for the itty bitty RFID tag hidden inside your pant's to transmit to a secre government/NWO base, or even to a car parked outside your house (which hopefully you would catch on to/notice) that lil itty bitty transmitter would need a big power source. Most RFID get's it's power to transmit during the process of reading it, for example you swipe your mobile speed pass key chain the transiever sends out radiowave's that power's the transmitter your holding to relay the required information back to the transiever which handle's the rest of the information processing there using information it already has stored that you yourself freely gave away.

wow. Great thread and discussion guys. Thanks.

Originally posted by Produkt

Most RFID get's it's power to transmit during the process of reading it, for example you swipe your mobile speed pass key chain the transiever sends out radiowave's that power's the transmitter your holding to relay the required information back to the transiever which handle's the rest of the information processing there using information it already has stored that you yourself freely gave away.

So Produkt - from this statement and others I'm getting that your main arguments are about the legality of the situation:

1. Corporations or other agencies using the information they have collected, whether to a persons benefit or detriment, is okay because such use is not illegal; and

2. Whether or not individuals' provide information purposefully or wittingly, they have in fact provided it, therefor it's legally available for use.

Do I have that right? You're making a legal case?