Truce ends tomorrow

Well, now that the truce is just about over, now that Gaza was given over to those who believe that "peace" means nothing more than submission to Islam, now that there has been the opportunity to smuggle plenty of hardware into Gaza, we see what all this love and compassion shown by the Israelis will get them - dead.

We see that there have been 50 terror warning, 10 of them SPECIFIC, and, as usual, we see that the enemy sees kindness and compassion as weakness. These are the same creatures who kidnap a family and then release tham as "gesture of good-will."

Please. Way to go, Sharon, you have endangered your people by giving away the Gaza.

www.haaretz.com...

Please. Way to go, Sharon, you have endangered your people by giving away the Gaza.

It wasn't Israel's to give.

And on the note about alledged Arms smuggling.... So the Israelis can get given Billions of dollars of military hardware throughout the year and thats ok, but if the Palestinians smuggle in a few Ak's and some RPG's, then their the evil ones?

And also, it's not about submission to Islam, don't be a bigot. Alot of the groups are secular and are fighting for their land back, which has been stolen.

Completey disregarding the actual right's or wrongs of Israel proper being formed (like how about a large majority of modern day jews are not of Hebrew descent, but actually 6-10th century Eastern European converts), the Palestinians are being illegally occupied by the Israelis with barely a peep from the international community.

Uh, yes, it was theirs to give away, Stu. Very much so. You see, any other time when a country takes land after they are attacked, it is theirs. Regardless of the fact that the Gaza strip was taken after Israel was attacked for no cause by her enemies, there has always been a Jewish presence there, and I do not mean one of a nomadic existence.

Now, as I said, after the act of kindness, after the Israelis gave the "Palestinians" Gaza, to include water purification capabilities and green houses for their benefit, the "Palestinians" respond by launching Quassam rockets at, among other places, Ashkelon, an important industial town.

I suggest you stop being the bigot and realize that Israel is not the attacker. Try and spread your "unbiasness" to those who really deserve it.

Thank you for your time, and with warmest regards,

TC

Oh, and by the way, if we want to go down the road of national formations, Stu, we can discuss the formations of the nations that are attacking Israel. I think that would be a lot of fun, and it would cause a lot of backpeddling by many. People don't like to talk about that.

As far as the "Palestinians" being kept somewhere, as I have said many time before, the Palestinians" are as much the responsibility of the Syrians, and even the Jordanians, who refeuse to embrace their "brothers" and bring them into their family.

Furthermore, the Jewish people have the right of their blood as the Arabs do, and the people of Jewish ancestry have the right to come home.

To remind you, by the way, the word "Palestinian" referred the Jews. As a matter of fact, it was an insult to the Arab man to be called a "Palestinian", until it was politically advantageous on the international front to be called that.

Man, it is nice to have a grasp of history. It really helps put things in focus when looking at the present!

Uh, yes, it was theirs to give away, Stu. Very much so. You see, any other time when a country takes land after they are attacked, it is theirs. Regardless of the fact that the Gaza strip was taken after Israel was attacked for no cause by her enemies, there has always been a Jewish presence there, and I do not mean one of a nomadic existence.

Uh, no. Annexing territory of another nation is illegal. Unless that country agrees to it. Why do you think we went to war with Iraq in `91 (well, the official line anyway)? The invasion and subsequent annexation of Kuwait by Iraq was illegal according to International law.

The continued occupation by Israel of the West Bank and parts of Gaza, plus the Golam Heights and the land that is Lebanese (some such Farms...) is all illegaly occupied, as per International Law.

Now, as I said, after the act of kindness, after the Israelis gave the "Palestinians" Gaza, to include water purification capabilities and green houses for their benefit, the "Palestinians" respond by launching Quassam rockets at, among other places, Ashkelon, an important industial town.

Act of kindness? For several years now Israel has used completely disporpotionate force against the very small Palestinian uprising.

Compare it to the UK/IRA situation, it is no worse. We didn't invade, occupy and bomb the crap out if Ireland every time a bomb went off in the UK, did we? Nor did we bulldoze houses in Ulster, or use guided misslies to assassinate Gerry Adams and co.

But you Americans where quite happy to sit back, fund and support the IRA et al in that endeavour, weren't you?

I suggest you stop being the bigot and realize that Israel is not the attacker. Try and spread your "unbiasness" to those who really deserve it.

Israel isn't under attack and I am not being a bigot. Your the one claiming that the Palestinians want to "subject everyone to Islam", which is a gross misrepresenation of the true reasons of the fighting. It has nothing to do with Islam.

They are expieriencing an uprising because of their continued occupation of Palestinian lands. Hardly surprising, surely? Exactly the same as NI. Why they cannot just follow our lead, I do not know.

It has never occured to them, but just getting the fudge out and treating them as equals might actually get the somewhere, rather than bombing them all the time. It's a circle of violence and if no one breaks it, it will go on in perpetuity.

Thank you for your time, and with warmest regards,

Likewise. Hope you had a good crimble too and have a happy new year

Stu

Oh, and by the way, if we want to go down the road of national formations, Stu, we can discuss the formations of the nations that are attacking Israel. I think that would be a lot of fun, and it would cause a lot of backpeddling by many. People don't like to talk about that.

As far as the "Palestinians" being kept somewhere, as I have said many time before, the Palestinians" are as much the responsibility of the Syrians, and even the Jordanians, who refeuse to embrace their "brothers" and bring them into their family

Indeed. I am aware of the part the other Arabs have played and they are far from being innocent in all this.

Furthermore, the Jewish people have the right of their blood as the Arabs do, and the people of Jewish ancestry have the right to come home.

Lets see how this logic plays out in the real world, rather than Zionist fantasy's shall we? Are you going to give back land you currently live on if a Native American asked for it back, being able to prove his ancestry etc.

Or perhaps I should ask for all Anglo-Saxon types to get the fudge out the UK as I am of Celtic descent and they are on my ancestral land? Afterall, first the bloody Romans and then these Germanic types came swanning over....

The worlds history is full of people moving, being forced on or conquering other nations.

If we went around giving people back land they last had control of 2000 years ago, where would it stop? You can't have one rule for one set of people and deny it too others, as many are around the world to this day.

Man, it is nice to have a grasp of history. It really helps put things in focus when looking at the present!

Agreed, but a little humility wouldn't go a miss.

I am not the ignorant "Israeli basher" you seem to think I am and have a more than adequate grasp of history.

For one, I would agree to the existance of Israel if the whole mess was put on an even keel. At the mo, they are being disproportionate in everything they do.

Also, are you removing post's TC? Didn't see what it said, but I am sure there was one there a minute ago from some chap.

Uh, no, it has always beenthat way. How do you think Israel was taken to begin with, huh? Remember, the temple was destroyed and the people were sent to the four winds. However, there has ALWAYS been a Jewish presence.
Funny how some nations can "annex" burt Israel cannot even take her own land back, even after she has been attacked first. I say again, and will type slowly for you, she was ATTACKED, which is why there was an exchange of territory.

As far as the GOLAN Heights, as well as Gaza and Judea and Samaria (What you mistakenly call the West Bank), Israel regained her land through the enemy attacks. She keeps only a small portion for her own defense, and the need for that is all too obvious for everyone except those who long for her destruction.

What in the world are you talking about, a small uprising? Where have you been? The attacks have been continuous since the creation of the Hamas, only that it ebbs and flows as needed. The attacks are always against the innocent, the civilians. A few days ago, a bomber blew himself up at a checkpoint while trying to get into Israel. The target was a children's festival. Really classy animals we are dealiong with, here. Please, do not tell me about how to handle such a limited campaign against women and children. This crap has been going on against Israel long before What has happened in NYC or London. When Israel loses loses the number of lives she has lost in the last 50 years, it amounts to a huge portion of her population. She is no bigger than one U.S. city.

Want to talk about how the "Palestinians" are treaed by their fellow Arabs? Let's see how easy it is for them to go to Syria or Jordan. Hmmm? Something wrong with the whole picture.

Would you like me to give you a breakdown of how the Jews are treated in Muslim countries, country by country?

Edited due to my inability to type worth a crap!





[edit on 31-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Yes, you do seem to forget history, Stu. You seem to dismiss the Arabic sins yet want to blame the Israelis. As I said, if you are not a bigot, feel free to break out of the continuous mold that we seem to have here, and spread the blame around.

LOL! "Zionist" fantasy??? LOL! How am I to respond to such Islamic BS as that? That is straight from the book of Islamic Fundementals in Propaganda Techniques!
I am sorry, this is a conspiracy site, so facts and clear evidence is not necessary.

You want an even keel? As I said, look to the Arabs.

Also, I have removed a post, it said "I agree with Stumason". The poster was given a one-liner and the non-contriobuting post removed, as it is always done. Are you not paying attention to ATS history, either? Or is it because it was a fan letter to you?

O*h, and by the way, this thread is meant to be here so that we can read it together next month, when the followers of the religiopn of pieces start blowing up children.
Then, we can talk about how lovely the little uprising is. Maybe you can have the opportunity to tell someone who has lost a loved one how this uprising is not much at all and how the government of Israel is overreacting.
Going to bed, now. If you like, I will be back tomorrow evening to discuss the loveliness of theIslamic states in regard to their Jewish cousins. I' msure you will be impressed with their generosity.

With kindest regards, I bid you a good day.

TC

I agree with stumason. stu did his homework.that land was STOLEN from the palastinians during the war of 46-47 then had all there bank acounts frozen until 1953and that toke a miracle in itself to make a claim but the jews will tell you different! anybody who speaks against the zionists or jews in general is labeled a racist bigot or a white supremicist.you all need to be shoved out on FRONT STREET the whole whinning lot of ya!

its illegal to annex by force yes but legally the UN considers gaza, west bank as occupied so legally israel is violating no law, israel has given up this territory at the risk of increased smuggling and weapons being fired from there yet they still get bemoaned all while they start getting attacked from there proving their previous argument on why pulling out would lead to increased attacks.

therealdeal

in 48 before the war the muslims started these areas werent touched, do more homework

Uh, no, it has always beenthat way. How do you think Israel was taken to begin with, huh? Remember, the temple was destroyed and the people were sent to the four winds. However, there has ALWAYS been a Jewish presence.

Er, yes. It is illegal to for one nation to annex anothers territory. Check out International Law. I know you Americans have a hard time with international law mind you (friendly banter)

What in the world are you talking about, a small uprising? Where have you been? The attacks have been continuous since the creation of the Hamas, only that it ebbs and flows as needed. The attacks are always against the innocent, the civilians. A few days ago, a bomber blew himself up at a checkpoint while trying to get into Israel. The target was a children's festival. Really classy animals we are dealiong with, here. Please, do not tell me about how to handle such a limited campaign against women and children. This crap has been going on against Israel long before What has happened in NYC or London. When Israel loses loses the number of lives she has lost in the last 50 years, it amounts to a huge portion of her population. She is no bigger than one U.S. city.

As per usual, when dicussing the ME problem, anyone who criticizes Israel is autmatically presumed to support the Terrorist actions of the Palestinians. I do not, no more than I support the actions of the IRA or ETA or FARC, or any other dodgy explosion fanatics.

What I am talking about, in terms of a "small uprising" is the disproportionate use of arms by the Israelis. With a few innocents killed in a bus bombing, they respond with an air raid, some tanks, some bulldozers and generally go all Arnie on the other set of innocents who are just trying to get on with life. Collective punishment? Or does that not filter through FOX news where you're at? There is no need to respond in the way they do, they only hurt themselves in the long run.

I notice you ignored my questions/comments about the UK/IRA problem. Why is it any different?

Want to talk about how the "Palestinians" are treaed by their fellow Arabs? Let's see how easy it is for them to go to Syria or Jordan. Hmmm? Something wrong with the whole picture.

I have already agreed that the Arabs don't help themselves, but let put this into context shall we (which you ignored as well)?

Imagine that you owned your land and it had been in your family for generations (iresepctive of who owned it before them). If someone turned up one day and ordered you to leave your house and handed it over to someone else, but then told you to go to Canada, as they would look after you, would you go? Or would you try and get your home back?

Another point you ignored (notice a pattern here?) is my observation about Human History. It is littered (in fact, it is History) with examples of people being displaced from one place to another! People being conquered, people conquering.....

How would you feel if some Native Americans demanded there land and subsequently got it? Depriving you of a home and livelihood, making you a refugee in the process? Even if you could go to Canada, the UK or Europe, would you go? I highly doubt it, regardless of what you say here in this thread.

Would you like me to give you a breakdown of how the Jews are treated in Muslim countries, country by country?

Fire away, as it has no relevance whatsoever. This is not about religion, it is about land. Simple. Always has been and is the case in any war/conflict. It is about land and resources.

EDIT: On that point, shall we discuss the Israeli tactic of drainign the water table in Occupied territory, or about how the West Bank is Strategic for the Israelis in providing their nation with enough Fresh water.

As I said, religion is the cover, but the Government of Israel is looking out for themselves (as it should be) but at the detriment of those whose land it has illegally occupied.

How can you say the West Bank and Gaza are not occupied? Any reputable source will agree with this statement and also point to the fact that the Israelis are continuing they're illegal expansion activities on settlements there.

Yes, you do seem to forget history, Stu. You seem to dismiss the Arabic sins yet want to blame the Israelis. As I said, if you are not a bigot, feel free to break out of the continuous mold that we seem to have here, and spread the blame around.

I agreed with you on that point TC. Try to address some of my points rather than hammerring home something to which we agree on.

LOL! "Zionist" fantasy??? LOL! How am I to respond to such Islamic BS as that?

Dude, we won't go into exactly how I feel about Muslims and they're mass immigration into my country, how they interact etc etc. But suffice to say, I am by no means Islamic or an Islamic supporter.

In actuallity, if I had my way, I would ban religion in it's entirety, as it causes to much grief everywhere and is just a total load of BS. I can;t believe people actually believe any of it when they is enough evidence around to refute to origin of any religion.

O*h, and by the way, this thread is meant to be here so that we can read it together next month, when the followers of the religiopn of pieces start blowing up children.
Then, we can talk about how lovely the little uprising is. Maybe you can have the opportunity to tell someone who has lost a loved one how this uprising is not much at all and how the government of Israel is overreacting.
Going to bed, now. If you like, I will be back tomorrow evening to discuss the loveliness of theIslamic states in regard to their Jewish cousins. I' msure you will be impressed with their generosity.

Way to twist my words there, TC! Did I say I supported it? No. But Israel is hardly the innocent victim either. The people on the ground, maybe, but the State of Israel (completely different to Judaism) is worthy of criticism and of all the people in the world to practice the tactics they do, it is dissapointing to say the least.

How come we can criticize Muslims by the dozen, even go so far as calling the derogatopry names, but any criticism of Israel is met with chrieks of "Anti-Semite!" or "Islamo-fascist!".... Oi Vey....


[edit on 31/12/05 by stumason]

Alright both of you. That is enough. Neither of you are going to give ground. Lets not let this argument lead to any animosity towards each other. It will be a new year. And it is a time of sharing and forgiveness for the trespasses we have committed against each other. By that here I mean our little dissagreements and arguments. Lets just all get along and enjoy the new year. I'm not taking sides in this argument though I can clearly see whos winning.

By the way, Israal never annexed anything so I think it is you who needs to do more homework namehere.

Originally posted by stumason


In actuallity, if I had my way, I would ban religion in it's entirety, as it causes to much grief everywhere and is just a total load of BS. I can;t believe people actually believe any of it when they is enough evidence around to refute to origin of any religion.

[edit on 31/12/05 by stumason]

So your saying you would be joseph stalin?


The point is, gaza was given to the palestinians to satisfy their wants and promote peaceful relations between israel and palestinian, yet as it was stated before, terrorists only see kindness as weakness.


I dont know what its going to take to get people to realise this....

[edit on 31-12-2005 by XphilesPhan]

Not to mention the fact that historically, the Jews were there first.
en.wikipedia.org...
faculty.bbc.edu...

This gives me just as many reliable sources as you have balls that state Isreal has historical claim to this land. They wouldnt be here otherwise. They wouldnt have taken the time , as no one else did to make the lands fertile and grow crops.

Historical claims mean nothing without the force to back them up. At the moment the State of Isreal has the power to back their claim and arguing whether they have a right to it is pointless the simple fact is as long as they have the firepower they have the land.

IF you want to argue history then Eygpt, Rome and Nazi Germany all have equal rights to that pathetic strip of desert as at different points in time they have all annexed it, takeing one specific time period and justifying a states actions based on it is a foolish and im sad to say typical human response.

stu is funny, him thinks hims knows history...really stu give us all a break here. if englang were like israel it would go down like this. wales, scottland and ireland all attacked england and the english beat them back, on three separate occassions. next comes the ira, and they start doing suicide bombings, not just blowing a couple of pubs but like the subway things and the doubledecker thing a bit ago. now that you have a small bit of perspective, let's look at some insignificant island down by argentina that they said was theirs...taking land that doesn't belong...riiiiiight, you got a leg to stand on...

now the israeli's, give land away that doesn't belong to them but was gained lawfully, under the laws regarding armed conflict. it is a mistake to do so even as giving the golan back is. they are a strategic asset for both sides.

as for the arab attacks, well maybe if like the other guy said, jordan and syria took some responsibility for their "brothers" instead of training them to blow themselves up and crying to the saudi's to pay the poor unfortunate families of the knuckleheads who died so uselessly, things might be better. learn from ghandi about peaceful change and religion. these stinking hypocrite arab muslims say "peace peace" and blow you up the next second. You can't trust them as far as you throw them, the first time you insult their religion it is JIHAAAAAAADDDDD!!!!!!! and even if it was Japan insulting them DEEEEAAAATTTTHHHH TO AAAAMMMMMEEERRRRIIICCCCAAAA!!!!!

Originally posted by stumason
Annexing territory of another nation is illegal.... Why do you think we went to war with Iraq in `91 ... The invasion and subsequent annexation of Kuwait by Iraq was illegal according to International law.

Respectfully ... you missed the point and gave an example that was
backwards from what he is saying.

We went to war with Iraq because they tried to take over someone
else's country which was illegal ... BUT ... Iraq lost. Therefore any
territory IRAQ lost because of their own aggression would have been
legal to take over. Kuwait, American, and the entire coalition back in
1991 could have kept the oil fields in S. Iraq as payment for aggression
against ourselves. But we we didn't. We could have. But we didn't.

Same with Israel. THEY were attacked. Their attackers lost. Therefore
any territory that the attackers lost due to their own aggression can
legally be annexed by the grieved party - Israel in this case.

Those who are attacked have to spend $$$ and spend lives of their
citizens in defense of unwarrented aggression. The aggressors lost
the Gaza. Israel, the grieved party, won could keep the land as payment
and reparations.