There Are No Aliens Abducting Us

If I were to propose the idea that not one person in the history of the earth had ever been abducted by an EBE would I be met with agreement by anybody on these boards?

Equally if I were to refine my statement by proposing that, despite the above, every abduction reported in earnest was no less real than it was believed to be by the abductee reporting it; would I be met with agreement by anyone on these boards?

Or have I simply confused everybody?

If, because it is late & I am tired and if I were to write a post even beginning to tackle the subject fully I would end up writing a rather large essay: If I were to cut straight to the chase and propose that alien abductions, close encounters, trips to underground bases etc. etc. are in fact meaningful manifestations of the collective consciousness (or, to be more precise, unconsciousness) arising in an archetypal fashion ie. following the motif of the abduction and have nothing whatsoever to do with space aliens would I be met with agreement by anyone on these boards?

A phenomena beginning and ending with the unfathomable mysteries of the human mind, the grossly misunderstood boundary between the material "objective" world and the apparently "subjective" consciousness of a living organism, a modern way of life that removes its subscribers as far as possible from their spiritual roots and a message being delivered by a harmonious, purposeful lifeforce that is not being paid attention to until it literally grabs you and sticks a cattle-prod up your ass, or in this case, a space-thermometer.

Could anyone on here relate to that idea? Or is everyone firmly down with the "Space aliens from far-off galaxies in hi-tec ships are here to reap our oil/ souls/ DNA" agenda?

Let me know where you all are.








V

I have never been abducted, but I know aliens exist and they have probably abducted some people.

With a signature such as yours I would have expected perhaps a more open-minded approach to my post.

How exactly do you know aliens to exist?

Or at least, "aliens" in the context of visiting earth in metallic discs and abducting people?





V

Same --- as religion, ppl that believe in aliens JUST NEED SOMETHING TO BELIEVE. Let them do as long as dont mess with you. Personally, I think aliens exist but they have never been on our planet.

Just as greeks believed in minotaurs, cyclopes and other creatures, some(many?) people today believe in a highly advanced civilization that abducts earthlings for whatever reason.

And for those who believe Icke´s stuff god are there lives that boring?
Sad thing is you cant argue with them, most of em are close minded.

Greetings From Mexico

(mod edit- mind you mouth please,)



[edit on 28-12-2005 by asala]

"Just as greeks believed in minotaurs, cyclopes and other creatures, some(many?) people today believe in a highly advanced civilization that abducts earthlings for whatever reason"


Funny you should make that comparison...







V

Instead of philosophizing and theorizing about it... check out the evidence, or perhaps coincendence, that suggests abduction is real. I personally don't swing either way on this one... but think about this: In the Betty and Barney abduction (famous one there) Betty drew a starchart from hypnotic regression.. apparently a diagram that the aliens showed her. Years later, certain new stars were discovered, and they match the diagram entirely. Sorry no sources right now.

Originally posted by SteveR
Instead of philosophizing and theorizing about it... check out the evidence, or perhaps coincendence, that suggests abduction is real. I personally don't swing either way on this one... but think about this: In the Betty and Barney abduction (famous one there) Betty drew a starchart from hypnotic regression.. apparently a diagram that the aliens showed her. Years later, certain new stars were discovered, and they match the diagram entirely. Sorry no sources right now.

And she sketched the map from memory? come on or maybe Betty's starchart consists of vague dots and lines that could be matched with an whole range of stellar systems ( www.skepticreport.com... )

Anyway this thread isnt about Barney&Betty Hill...

Its inconceivable for me at least, to consider the idea that no one has ever been abducted. Although, with proper wordplay and technicalities one could come up with a decent argument for the idea.
StevenR hit it on the head I think

[edit on 28-12-2005 by Unplugged]

I am well aware of corroborative evidence for close encounters, I've read a lot about the subject. I've even come across so-called "hard" evidence (in the form of a blonde hair from an alien mongolid) and of course the mountain of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence. Something is definitely going on.

If you re-read my posts you will see that I am not advocating that abductions are not happening, actually that they are happening but that they are not what we believe them to be.

Has anyone ever come across a book called "Dimensions" by Jacques Vallee? Vallee is the character the UFO researcher in Spielberg's Close Encounters was based on, he is a long-standing leading authority on the subject and in Dimensions he attempts to place abduction and close encounter lore into context. Well worth a read for the serious student or even for the curious.

I will crudely blurt out my theory now so that the remaining posts may at least debate it and not something unrelated. Although it is similar in style to Vallee's theory, it differs greatly the further down the theory you go. I'm not sure if it is original to me or if there are books out there already that advocate such a theory: I have not come across them if there are.


Alien abductions are made of the same stuff that dreams are.

Alein abductions are an eruption of this dream material into our waking, conscious lives and our apparently objective physical plain of existence.

Alien abductions are born out of the deepest, darkest recesses of the collective human unconscious, and just like dreams, omens and myths (which many abductions parallel closely) they speak in symbols.

"Alien abductions" therefore are merely our ill-equipped, 21st Century categorisation of a phenomenon that has nothing in fact to do with EBEs or interplanetary spaceships. The same way most people would dream about a spaceship and then, on waking, incorrectly assume that they had just had a dream about a spaceship. We are dealing with symbols and latent meanings, not overt interpretations.

"Aliens", as we (mis)interpret them to be, are in fact shadowy archetypal figures more akin to the devil's minions, the shadow, Death, the trickster etc. than to ET or an X-Files extra.

Hence the majority of abduction experiences occur at night, while the victim is lying in bed or while the victim is dozing or already sound asleep; the majority of people seem to be back in their bed for daybreak.

Upon (often aided) recollection the experience always has a dreamlike quality to it: it makes no obvious sense, the characters in it (aliens) can transmit their thoughts ie. you can understand them without talking with them, there are overwhelming emotive presences, things impossibly change from one second to the next etc. it makes no objective, material-world sense.

All these "irks" are given different explanations by exponents of the classic lore: telepathy, hi-technology, confusion tactics, disarming odour given off by the aliens' skin etc. etc. when in fact one all-encompassing theory answers each and every anomaly the same: abduction experiences have a dream-like quality because they are made of the same stuff dreams are and are coming from the same place.

Now I am not saying that they ARE dreams, not at all. They are more extreme and they intrude in our material life in a way that dreams mostly do not. They can also leave physical traces etc. and certainly affect people in a way dreams usually do not.

The abduction experience is REAL. It happens. it hurts, it disturbs, but above all else it communicates.

Just like a meaningful dream, the abduction experience tries its damnedest to speak with the recipient. However, just like a dream, it cannot speak the recipient's native tongue and so must communicate in the only way it knows how: symbols.

Now when we are left with the memory of these symbols in our minds, we, as so many have done with holy texts, take the symbols at face value: literally. Because the abduction experience is so strong we cannot seem to take it any other way.

The meaning is then lost and we have a whole sub-culture believing we are being visited and kidnapped from our beds at night by malevolent space visitors.

The question is: what is this message for mankind that these manifestations are trying to deliver?







V

Perhaps I will add that if you are not at least vaguely familiar with Jungian psychology, alternative theories relating to reality, consciousness and spirituality then the above post may be a bit hard on the mental digestive tract.

I would gladly welcome any questions you may have though.

Thoughts?






V

VTC I am very much in agreement. I started a thread in the crypto forum concerning the strange circumstances surrounding the Bigfoot phenemena. It hasn't received much attention, due I think, to the need to believe in an actual solid reality concerning the beast.

Abductions riddle our ancient mythologies; from the fairy-folk stealing children in Eire to the Pied-Piper of Hamlin.

Vallee is one of the more committed researchers into this strange field as is John Michell. Jung's book 'Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies' is a great starting point for those interested in branching out of the common theories.

Personally, I hold to a belief that the Earth organism is responsible for much of the unusual phenomena that surrounds us.

[edit on 29-12-2005 by Beelzebubba]

Well in someways your completely right. Every abduction I have heard involved humans not aliens. Even my own. Unless it was my imagination. I don't think people are being abducted by aliens. But rather the government. I mean I believe in aliens. Like roswell. But I am not sure if they abduct.

They may have abducted people but probably a long time ago. Like with those ancient civilizations. So I think they only abduct their own... wait a second...they only abduct their own kind. Whoa. Need to write thread. Now!

Edit= spelling.

[edit on 12/29/2005 by Conspiracy Theorist06]

Nice post, VTC.

A preamble to my answer:
In my travels through these boards I've come across an interesting trend: If one takes the position opposing the supernatural, alien, etc... Viewpoint, then one is labeled either a troll or a "misinformer".
(That is a very generalized statement, however I've been up for a quite a while and I'm tired and don't feel like expanding on it.)

My answer to your initial post:
At the risk of exposing myself to the label of "troll" or "misinformer", I agree with your premise of the collective unconscious having an impact on the alien abduction phenomenon.

It amazes me how quick aliens or the supernatural are attributed to experiences that are not immediately explainable. We know very, very little about the human brain and it would be quite arrogant to assume we have a firm grasp on all of its' mechanisms.

Having said that, I agree that there is extensive physical evidence that can't be explained away by the brain trying to make sense of something beyond our ken. To this I say that, like the brain, our physical environment is not even close to being fully understood and again it would be arrogant to assume that we know exactly how the universe really functions.

I firmly believe that there is life "out there". However, I like to take into consideration all possibilities when dealing with any sort of extraordinary event.

I apologize, again, if this is incoherent. I'm at the end of a long shift, but wanted to chime in before this post slipped my mind.

Why would an entity abduct anybody, if his clone can do the job as well? If an alien wants to do anything useful to somebody, he can create an entire clone community on a different planet in space and time, and can play the God for these poor people.

Perhaps, human mutiliations are also related to lifeless clones of existing human beings. Nothing more than mutiliated flesh that never lived.

Victor the Cleaner:
Sorry if I wasn't too openminded in my answer, I just wanted to state my meaning and go to sleep.

I myself belive in aliens, and I believe they visit earth often.
I have my reasons to belive this. (which i'm not going to discuss here)
We abduct animals and probe them, why shouldn't aliens do that with us?

And no, I don't belive they're here to reap our oil/ souls/ DNA/ whatever... (i'm not crasy)

Have a good day Victor the Cleaner

[edit on 2005/12/29 by TrappedSoul]

"And no, I don't belive they're here to reap our oil/ souls/ DNA/ whatever... (i'm not crasy)"


If it is indeed EBEs visiting us here on earth I would be inclined to believe they are after one of those three things. Certainly they seem logical conclusions to reach if the visitors are malevolent. I can't imagine a mass-abduction programme being carried out for fun.

Beelzebubba - I will get on over to read your bigfoot thread. Thanks for the reply.

Katolu - "To this I say that, like the brain, our physical environment is not even close to being fully understood and again it would be arrogant to assume that we know exactly how the universe really functions."

I am proposing an idea certainly not original to myself that our outward, apparently objective material reality is in fact not objective and is linked with our inner reality (consciousness) in deep and mysterious ways that most people never acknowledge, much less come close to understanding.

Have you ever come across the Tibetan Tulpa?








V

Hey Vic- interesting thread here. I myself am not into alien abductions but I thought I would give you a lead that seems to connect with your thoughts.
There is a feeling among certain scientists that electromagnetic waves can be used to influence our brain waves. One, a Dr. Perssinger(can't remember the school) has conducted experiments using volunteers and was able to stimulate their brains and make them think they had been abducted. Apparently he thinks that earths magnetic fields may have a similar effect. Sorry thats all I remember but maybe it will help.
Keep on lookin for the truth.

Originally posted by Victor the Cleaner
"And no, I don't belive they're here to reap our oil/ souls/ DNA/ whatever... (i'm not crasy)"


If it is indeed EBEs visiting us here on earth I would be inclined to believe they are after one of those three things. Certainly they seem logical conclusions to reach if the visitors are malevolent. I can't imagine a mass-abduction programme being carried out for fun.

Beelzebubba - I will get on over to read your bigfoot thread. Thanks for the reply.

Katolu - "To this I say that, like the brain, our physical environment is not even close to being fully understood and again it would be arrogant to assume that we know exactly how the universe really functions."

I am proposing an idea certainly not original to myself that our outward, apparently objective material reality is in fact not objective and is linked with our inner reality (consciousness) in deep and mysterious ways that most people never acknowledge, much less come close to understanding.

Have you ever come across the Tibetan Tulpa?

the truth of truths is...no one..really knows...and if they did know. they don't have a longstanding proof to prove it...so the truth is actually the age old battle of truth vs. prudence...but, there not harm in imagining.
if people really wanted to find out....honestly looking to do what it takes..even if the answer is real or not....they'd take a radical stance..and actually raid area 51 or some base or substructure of sort.....like that hacker kid on 9/11...actually take an aggressive toll on things. but, eh...I don't care. ..at least I have chicken

What do you guys think of the Travis Walton case? Our government cannot do anything like that And im sure the 5 or 6 of them were not dreaming when it happened.
ouch.

same thing like people who say " i'm not gonna believe that aliens are real until i see them walking around in my backyard "

...lions and gorillas don't walk in around in your backyard..so are they not real as well?

Not like anybody is really gonna hold a gun to your head and tell you to believe he is lil juanito R-U-D United..don't believe just don't believe,don't try to be like they ain't real cause this and that..most people don't know alot of things that exist..did we ever know that area 51 existed before? no.
well here we are now and more aware of whats in our "backyard."

Think about this..
people all over the world have believed that aliens and whatnot are real wayy before you and i were born..before the united states became the united states..before there was even a religion.

what is this proving? why?

you live in the United States?

we don't even see the news that other countries see,did we even get a little picture of those 22 ufo's that flew over mexico? no.

your being naive to the fact of matter,a filtered media.

alot of things of the mind?

jesus...have you ever seen the guy?
people don't believe in ghosts but they believe in the holy ghost?
the ghost and holy ghosts are both ghosts either way right?

quit seeing 90 and start seeing 360.