Where Do Black Holes Lead?

Black Holes do not create of distroy matter it is merely a converter, converting regular mass and energy into Gamma Rays and maybe some other rays we have not detected as of yet.

If a black hole converts mass to energy (various rays ect.) would that cause it to lose mass and more gravitational pull? It always sounds like Black Holes create an ever greater gravitational pull around it, is that correct? Black holes have always intrigued me.

Hawking Radiation is special in that it's NOT information that's leaving a black hole. It's virtual particles being created and destroyed in fractions of fractions of milliseconds around the Event Horizon. This causes the Black Hole to slowly lose it's mass. It's also the reason that microsingularities are safe - because it evaporates almost instantly. However, no information about the contents of the Black Hole are revealed - and thus the law that no information can exit a Black Hole remains intact.

As for misinformation - there's a thin line between acknowledging without disproving, and disproving without acknowledging, a person's theories. The question was not how Black Holes function - but what were to happen if you could cross through one. To this effect, we don't know, and can only theorize.

Originally posted by pavil
If a black hole converts mass to energy (various rays ect.) would that cause it to lose mass and more gravitational pull? It always sounds like Black Holes create an ever greater gravitational pull around it, is that correct? Black holes have always intrigued me.

It would cause the Black Hole to lose mass, and lose gravitational strength. Black Holes have also always intrigued me as well. As for creating a gravitational pull around it - yes, the closer you get, and the larger it is, the stronger the pull.

But believe me - Black Holes have given only a small part of their secrets. New studies into "spinning" black holes - and their effect on space-time - have caused many new wondrous theroies to emerge. I believe Hawking Radiation is dependant on the fact that all black holes are spinning, correct?

As for what I mean by spinning - well - it's kinda wierd. How does something like a singularity, so tiny as to have no dimensions, and thus no surface area, spin? Indeed something's going on though - as certain characteristics have been observed that are only explainable by this theory.

Originally posted by pavil
If a black hole converts mass to energy (various rays ect.) would that cause it to lose mass and more gravitational pull? It always sounds like Black Holes create an ever greater gravitational pull around it, is that correct? Black holes have always intrigued me.

From what I understand B.Holes degrade over time and do have a lifecycle just like everything else in the Universe. They only increase their gravitational pull when they are actively sucking in copious amounts of matter. When they have exausted that supply entropy will start to take effect. They do not decay into Gamma Rays though, they decay into Hawking Radiation.

www.superstringtheory.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

This is what we think. What we think and what actually is may be two different stories though so take with a grain of salt

Hawking Radiation is special in that it's NOT information that's leaving a black hole.

Hawking has retracted that. He now believes the opposite and conceded a bet he made back in tha day.

www.space.com...

[edit on 30-12-2005 by sardion2000]

Most amazing! I had not heard of this - surprising considering it's been over a year since he said it!

He must be writing a book or something to help explain this - as we have heard nothing since. So, until then, I will stand by Black Holes releasing no information - but I eagerly await the explanation he gives, if ever.

Because the consequences would be crazy. As he said, you could, to a small degree, predict the future. Which brings temporal paradoxes into question. After having observered an event - is it possible to stop it? If it is possible, then there's no such thing as fate! The philosophical ramifications alone are staggering!

More information at this link.

www.iop.org...

The way his new calculations work is to show that the event horizon, which is the surface of the black hole, has quantum fluctuations in it. These are the same uncertainties in position that were made famous by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and are central to quantum mechanics. The fluctuations gradually allow all the information inside the black hole to leak out, thus allowing us to form a consistent picture. The information paradox is now unravelled.
...
A complete description of this work will be published in professional journals and on the web in due course.

Here are all his papers within the years of 2004 and 2006

link

This seems to be the paper in question.

arxiv.org...

[edit on 31-12-2005 by sardion2000]

I just read the paper you said was in question, and, unfortunately, this looks like the paper for Hawking Radiation - the way in which a Black Hole loses information, and not how one could use it to study the information that comes out.

I'll read some other things you put up, and will edit this if I find anything to the contrary.

=EDIT=

Alright, after seeing that the article in question is the only article there worth reading, I decided to reread the article in a little more depth.

He is indeed talking about Information, not just the fact that there's a special kind of radiation coming off of it. The information, however in the form of Hawking Radiation, is so tiny, that it would be impossible to put it back together again. However, it is thrown out of a Black Hole eventually. Also, since the topography (?) of the black hole is unchanged, no insights into the future or other universes may be gleamed. There is no mini-universe inside a Black Hole. And you cannot use a Black Hole to travel to other universes (or even use it as a Worm-Hole). Going into a Black Hole means that eventually you will come out... but, like Humpty Dumpty, no one except God could ever put you back together again.

The situation, he says, is analagous to burning up an Encyclopedia. Technically, if you could keep any of the ashes and smoke and carbon dioxide that burning it generates, you could reconstitute the Encyclopedia - but it would be extremely difficult to read. The information is not lost, just scattered.

This explains how a black hole can form and then give out the information about what is inside it while remaining topologically trivial. There is no baby universe branching off, as I once thought. The information remains firmly in our universe. I'm sorry to disappoint science fiction fans, but if information is preserved, there is no possibility of using black holes to travel to other universes. If you jump into a black hole, your mass energy will be returned to our universe but in a mangled form which contains the information about what you were like but in a state where it can not be easily recognized.

[edit on 31-12-2005 by Yarium]

Black holes lead to sight.

How could anyone possibly answer that correctly, when noone ever went thro a black-hole ?

black holes are not "holes" as such

ive now decided to do my PHD on black holes, and hopefully by the time ive finished we will know more

All of you have good facts and theories, but the one thing everyone is overlooking is the fact that facts can be wrong. A fact is defined as "Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy" by dictionary.com. So have any of these facts been tested can you test if a black hole sucks everything in and destroys or holds the matter inside it? Sure there's pictures and sure theres the scientists but pictures can be doctrined and people can lie ,remember the moon landing? For those of you who belive what i do pictures where doctrined and the progessionals lied, so whats keeping them from lying again, maybe they want us the think that these black holes suck everything in, if you can control someones belifes or someones thoughts then you can control the person. I personaly belive that black holes dont suck everything in around them, themselves, i belive that black holes are really being used to suck things in by other beings, in other words aliens are using them as a sort of vaccum, to maybe clean up or take over the galaxy. In all reality we dont know how black holes get to where they are or what they are made up of, for all you know they could be nothing more than a giant soup bowl for the gods (yes thats an extreme theory but anything is possible. im not really sure what im saying

And rampant skepticism is one step away from Anarchy. Facts are the closest thing towards the truth that we have. If we were to blind ourselves by not trusting in any facts, then we would be no where. As Socrates said, "I only know that I do not know" he still attempted to search for the truth and would work and analyze accepted beliefs until he proved them right, wrong, or impossible to tell (almost all fall under the third category).

So, yes, we must always be questioning our surroundings, but at some point you must step back and say "All right, the truth can wait - but I need to know what applies to me right now".

where did u get that clip under ure name? Its so funny!!!

How about the blackholes suck everything in, including other blackholes and compacys everything into the tiniest space until the whole universe has been sucked into one minute space where it expands like a big bang to create a new universe.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Black Holes compress matter but to a extent that modern physics cant explain. At the point of singularity it becomes a dimensionless point of
infinite density, that does not make much sense when you think about it. Its governed by physical laws that are not yet understood. No one really knows if an object drawn into the hole would smash into it, becoming part of it, or if it would somehow travel through it.

All we have is theories

Well the thing is matter never actually goes into a black hole, due to special relativity and time dilation if we threw a rock into a black hole and watched it go "in" it would never go past the event horizon from our perspective, it would just get infintely closer. However if you were sitting on the rock going in, lets ignore the fact that you would be ripped to shreds, you would almost instantly go into the singularity.

*volunteers to go through black hole*

these are probably the most interesting things in space, great topic with great info

from what i think, black holes are collapsed stars just sucking in matter to cerate a new one. when the "hole" gets filled, the star is reborn and no more hole until the star dies agian. matter doesnt get reduced to nothing, but it is just melted from the inside temperature. helping the new star repair itself i guess you could say. thats my theory on a black hole

I beleive black holes are an 'event horizon' to an ajoining dimension. Matter may not survive, but most of us beleive there is more to 'life' than matter. Who knows what exist within unknown dimensions of our universe.
Nobody should take these theorys serious, not one of us will ever really know anyway.
Certainly there is more to life than mathmatical equations and chalkdust!
Let your imagine run free, who knows what discoverys are hid behind the veil of sensibility and 'facts'!


[edit on 10-1-2006 by Inny]

Rekor, you have fallen victim to the idea that Black Holes are, well, holes. Holes can be filled - Black Holes can't. Black Holes aren't holes in the general sense of the term.

A Black Hole is the way it is because the mass and density of a star's core become so huge that the barriers between matter were broken, and all mass fell into a tiny point. However, the mass is still there, in that singularity. The event horizon of a black hole is the point after which any other matter that crosses it will be crushed down and compacted into that singularity.

The reason it cannot be filled, however, is twofold:

1. If mass is added to the black hole, this only widens the size of the Event Horizon. Essentially, the "hole" gets bigger. So, you can't fill up a hole that gets bigger every time you throw more into it.

2. The singularity remains singular. It's infinitely small. Adding mass too it does not make it bigger. So, even if the hole didn't get bigger, tossing in more stuff doesn't fill up the hole.


Moving on to the next poster, Hawking recently published a paper saying that information does exit a Black Hole in the form of Hawking Radiation. The only problem is that the Radiation contains such small amounts of information that it's effectively 0 for using it. However, since information does eventually leave a Black Hole, this means that the information is not going into another dimension. I was kinda hoping myself that Black Holes had some kind of inter-dimensional affect (however small) - but it seems that isn't the case. Sorry.

I always like Carl Sagans book " Contact ", where black holes were being used by adavnced civilisations for galactic engineering. The matter would be sucked into one supermassive black hole and spewed out hundreds of millions of light years away from another one. The purpose being to increase mass in empty parts of the universe to stow the expansion of the universe. Kinda cool wouldn't you say.

However IRL, we poor humans unfortunatey IMO don't have the capacity with our feeble brains to really explain what a black hole is.

[edit on 10-1-2006 by mad scientist]