F-22;F-35 stealthier than B-2.

The U.S. Air Force, in it’s effort to get money to build more F-22s, has revealed just how “stealthy” the F-22 is. It’s RCS (Radar Cross Section) is the equivalent, for a radar, to a metal marble. The less stealthy (and much cheaper) F-35, is equal to a metal golf ball. The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber , which, in turn, was twice as good as that on the even older F-117.

I don't know if it's really true (would USAF reveal one of the most closely guarded secrets?), but I am quite surprised that JSF is stealthier than B-2 (although B-2 is physicaly much bigger so that may be one of the reasons). If true, this will make F-22 the most stealthy plane in history.

link

[edit on 24-12-2005 by longbow]

I'd guess what they are saying is true.... but they are being very efficient with it.


I reckon from a certain angle the F-22 would be stealthier than a B-2, so they are true in what they say, but for 99.9% of the time, the B-2 would be stealthier (at $1+ billion a pop, it'd need to be!).


edit: But then again, I'm no radar expert

[edit on 24-12-2005 by kilcoo316]

Yes, but then we must remember that the F-35 and the F-22 are much newer than the B-2... If they wouldn't be stealthier than the B-2 I'd be surprised, it would only proove us that our civilization isn't going forward, but backwards...

Its mad to believe the F-22 and the F-35's are more stealthy than the
F-117 and the B-2 that were designed for that purpose, I didnt used to think the Raptor was a true 'stealth' fighter although it still used stealth technology. I guess they are more stealthy becouse of modern technology and also the F-117 never had air to air capability so there was never a stealth fighter to start with although it is designated as one.

All the time, It was a surgical precision bomber.

If the F-117 was a Strike/Attack/Bomber? aircraft, Then what was the point of the B-2 Spirit?

Not against any of these aircraft whatsoever but its just the fact they both done the same job, one was smaller and the other a big 'wing thing'.

I heard the F-22 Raptor will eventually replace the F-117 Nighthawk.

Yes, But I read somewhere here that the F-22 isn't that stealthy from the top... Just from the sides...

I don't think anything is stealthy from the top as the wing is a huge reflector and that is unavoidable. The stealth attributes are best used in the frontal aspect and on more developed planes like the B-2, F-22 etc, also in the side on aspect as well as certain oblique approach angles. If you are scanning directly on to the top or bottom surface surface of any plane (whether you are above or below it or it is turning) you will certainly detect it, but how soon and how well would depend on the quality of the RAM.




[edit on 24-12-2005 by waynos]

I remember reading here on ATS that the B-2 has an RCS of a bumble bee, that's singnificantly smaller than a metal golf ball.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
I remember reading here on ATS that the B-2 has an RCS of a bumble bee, that's singnificantly smaller than a metal golf ball.

Shattered OUT...

All previous statements about B-2 RCS were just guesses, this one is first offical statement from USAF. However they may may be tricking us somehow, like Killcoo said.

Originally posted by Figher Master FIN
Yes, But I read somewhere here that the F-22 isn't that stealthy from the top... Just from the sides...

Why should it be stealthy from top? It would be nothing, but waste of resources.

well if you have enemy airborn radar it could be a problem. If you are going in at low or med alt you could have a problem.

Airborne radar detection units or AWACs operate at what standard altitude(s)? 30,000 to 40,000 feet?

Though this may be speculative on my part, rumor has it that the F-22's standard operating altitude will supposedly be 50000+ feet. If the F-22 [first look, first shot for a reason] is operating higher than current airborne radar detection units or AWACs, what other nationality aircraft(s) will be doing likewise?

Just food for thought.





seekerof

[edit on 25-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Browno
Its mad to believe the F-22 and the F-35's are more stealthy than the
F-117 and the B-2 that were designed for that purpose

As you mention later, I believe that newer technological advances contribute to the stealthiness of the Raptor and JSF. You must consider that the F-117 is about 15 years older in design then the Raptor, and the Raptor is a few years older then the JSF,

The B-2 is the most technologically advanced aircraft we have, but that is due in large case to factors other then it's RCS.

I guess they are more stealthy becouse of modern technology and also the F-117 never had air to air capability so there was never a stealth fighter to start with although it is designated as one.

There were a few advances since the nighthawk that allowed for a 'true' stealth fighter. Most important among them was the ability to make a stealth aircraft with curved surfaces. The F-117 was built before computing power was good enough to design curved surfaces. Since then, it has become common place.

If the F-117 was a Strike/Attack/Bomber? aircraft, Then what was the point of the B-2 Spirit?

The F-117 was a tactical strike aircraft. The B-2 was a strategic nuclear "heavy" bomber.

In otherwords, the F-117 was made to be more of a "special forces" aircraft that targeted traditional assets, while the B-2 was supposed to be able to penatrate the USSR and drop a nuke.

I heard the F-22 Raptor will eventually replace the F-117 Nighthawk.

The F-35 JSF would be more likely, as it is an attack air craft and the F-22 is an air dominance fighter.

EDIT: because I am drunk and couldn't get the quotes right

[edit on 25-12-2005 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by longbow

Why should it be stealthy from top? It would be nothing, but waste of resources.

Never said that it would have to be stealthy from the top... I'am just counting facts...

Originally posted by longbow
The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber

Of course it is...

The B-2 is the equivelent of a flying Titanic...

If true, this will make F-22 the most stealthy plane in history.

This is the US's newest toy...it cost 100's of billions to develop...so of course it going to be the most stealthy plane around...

Like somebody said before why would they develop a new plane that was less stealthy than an earlier aircraft???


Mic

Originally posted by MickeyDee
Like somebody said before why would they develop a new plane that was less stealthy than an earlier aircraft???

Because B-2 was designed exclusively for stealth purposes and while F-22 was compromise between steath speed and maneuvrability it is quite surprising that F-22 is stealthier.
And it didn't cost 100 billions, it was slightly less than 70 billions for whole program (including aircraft procurement) - app 30 billion $ for R&D.

Is the F-22 paint scheme designed for all scenarios? becouse i seen an image of it at sunset and it looked mettalic orange!, wonder what type of paint that is? I quite like it!

Is it more advanced than the black F-117 paint? I also heard the F-117 black paint was sensitive to rain/bird crap and would have to be resprayed over again if needed, Is the F-22 paint the same?.

Will the F-22 and the JSF be in other paint schemes? Guess it will depend on foreign exports.

Imagine the F-22 Raptor and F-35s in matt F-117 black for night operations!

Originally posted by Browno
Is the F-22 paint scheme designed for all scenarios? becouse i seen an image of it at sunset and it looked mettalic orange!, wonder what type of paint that is? I quite like it!

Is it more advanced than the black F-117 paint? I also heard the F-117 black paint was sensitive to rain/bird crap and would have to be resprayed over again if needed, Is the F-22 paint the same?.

Will the F-22 and the JSF be in other paint schemes? Guess it will depend on foreign exports.

Imagine the F-22 Raptor and F-35s in matt F-117 black for night operations!

That's the Ram coating, I don't know if RAM comes in different colors, but I think that if it didn't, then the RAM was painted over by another pigment so that it's not completely black. And yes, if the RAM is damaged, then the whole plane needs to be painted over again.

Shattered OUT...

I'm pretty sure that the RAM can be applied in a variety of colors.





The Air Force painted a bunch of its Nighthawks in this color to determine if it could be an effective daytime weapon. As for the RAM being sensitive to water, that doesn't make sense. I'm not saying you're wrong, but i thought the F-117 was an all weather fighter?

Originally posted by BlackThorn311
I'm pretty sure that the RAM can be applied in a variety of colors.





The Air Force painted a bunch of its Nighthawks in this color to determine if it could be an effective daytime weapon. As for the RAM being sensitive to water, that doesn't make sense. I'm not saying you're wrong, but i thought the F-117 was an all weather fighter?

Far from it, in fact, many aircraft aren't all weather. Now, some aircraft are designed specifically for all weather operations such as the A-6.

Shattered OUT...

So the RAM would just be a coating over the black paint like Laquer or Car Wax/Polish? Not sure.

I admire the F-117s Camo Paint Sceme, similar to the 'Have Blue' prototype,

Would be nice on the F-22/F-35 maybe?

F-117 Nighthawk


Have Blue Prototype


Rafale in Matt Black Paint Scheme
external image

external image

Is the Black paint on the Rafale just a matt spray or is it some RAM type of stuff?

This site contains all US Service Aircraft Paint Scemes.

www.jpsmodell.de...

The YF-22 Had the Hill 2 Paint scheme.



Until Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
external image

Like the Gold Tinted Canopy, Is it Lumispex Glass like the F-16?, Wonder if that uses RAM stuff?.








[edit on 25-12-2005 by Browno]