D-Rep Releases Potentially 'Lethal' Impeachment Doc

Maybe it is because things have had so much spin and rhetoric put on them that no one has any idea just what the facts are anymore. Answer one simple question for me. What is a reliable source these days? If you say the mainstream media you are dead wrong. Don't even think about saying talk shows. See there is no such thing as a reliable source anymore. I took a class in recent US History a few years ago in college. I actually had to study two events that I personally witnessed. The information in the book and what was presented in class had no resemblance to what actually happened. The information was put thru the washing machine of political correctness and man that spin cycle really works! The only way that I have found to obtain any information is to try to wade thru everything that I can find on a subject and try to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Next time someone asks you for a reference or a link for your information, give it to them if you can.

I guess part of my point was missed - there is no evidence of fabricated evidence. That is an impossible conclusion to reach for anyone who does not have access to classified information concerning this case. And me, I think when there is intent with possible ability to act on that intent, some action needs to be taken beyond further ineffective actions by the UN.
So what would need to be fixed here? Well, to start with, penalizing all parties involved in the Oil for food scandal. They were part of the reason why the UN initiatives were ineffective. Who they are shouldn't protect them. Of course, the UN itself needs some revamping, as its been a while since it has been very effective, either.
Anyways, the point is that too many people are jumping to conclusions with insufficient evidence. I find it ironic how so many here who talk about not being taken in by the tales "they" spin, eat this up, simply because it fits what they want to see. Some day we need to fix the cause, not the symptom.

"......Gimme links, gimme proof, gimme evidence, gimme articles"...First of all the evidence has been documented so many times and iin so many ways on this site alone, to warrant impeachment of a criminal administration."

REPLY: This is not true at all, as there are links to the law that allowed "wiretaps" without a court order.

".... We cant preach a "Free Society" when we jam our version of freedom and liberty down a uninterested regions throat."

REPLY: I think that you should confer with the 12 million Iraqis that had purple fingers; also Afghanistan. You obviously don't understand the concept: America doesn't force our values or socio-economic concept on anyone... we force freedom on tyrants and dictators, then let the people of the region decide for themselves how they want to be governed. It seems to have worked in Europe, hasn't it?

Liberty and Freedom is something that any human desires, no matter what culture or ethnicity.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by Apoc
Why does the legislative branch in this country always get a pass? Don't we elect these people to do a job?

3 words for you
Republican
Controlled
Legislature

it's hard for the party with a minorty in both the house and senate to get anything done, much less get in the way of the party that controls all 3 branches of the government.

REPLY: The Dems were in charge for 45 years, and they sure screwed things up, Legally, Socially and economically. I've been alive and watching it happen for longer than that.

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[edit on 17-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I doubt anyone here would say that the democrats arent crooked, maybe just a little less crooked.
I think the main reason I would like to see democratic leadership is due to the history of sticking up for the populace, rather than the $. The dems seems to pull a little more for the common man (majority at least) , rather than corporate, or religeous right.
In the end they are two sides of the same coin. Its just two different management teams bidding for control over the masses. It really is the lesser of two evils.

DaFunk, you do realize that democrats and republicans both have their constituencies. Being a representative is not an easy job, as you have responsibility to not only the populace who put you there, but to your constituents who helped you get elected, and your fellow senators and congressmen. They both work more for those constituencies than for the populace they represent thats how it works, both groups are hypocritical with some of their accusations about the other. Such as at present, the democrats are really after President Bush, just like the Republicans were out to get President Clinton. Its how it is and always will be, get used to it.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
They werent involved in 911, we didnt find WMDs, the Iraqis gov't itself didnt even put up much of a fight. Its the civilians that are fighting to keep an occupying force out. The world is a better place with Hussein gone, but what has it cost us as far as human life and world image? If you dont believe in projecting a good image, and portraying ourselves as a friendly, loving nation you should move to North Korea. *snip* Where is the diplomacy?

[edit on 5-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

".... They werent involved in 911, we didnt find WMDs."

REPLY: There are links in other threads about Saddams ties to Al-Queda, and the "missing" WMD's.
...........................................

".... Its the civilians that are fighting to keep an occupying force out."

REPLY: No, not true at all. Well, there ARE some of Saddams old Baathist Party people helping fuel things, but most all of the insurgents are from (or coming through) Iran and other countries.
............................................

"....what has it cost us as far as human life and world image?" "If you dont believe in projecting a good image, and portraying ourselves as a friendly, loving nation you should move to North Korea."

REPLY: If you ever go into a war with those things as issues, you'll never win.
World popularity and low body counts are not indicative of "victory."
............................................

".... Where is the diplomacy?"

REPLY: There was 11 years of diplomacy, and you, the U.N. and the rest of the civilized world saw the results.


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[edit on 17-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by DaFunk13
I doubt anyone here would say that the democrats arent crooked, maybe just a little less crooked.
I think the main reason I would like to see democratic leadership is due to the history of sticking up for the populace, rather than the $. The dems seems to pull a little more for the common man (majority at least) , rather than corporate, or religeous right.
In the end they are two sides of the same coin. Its just two different management teams bidding for control over the masses. It really is the lesser of two evils.

REPLY: After following politics (and economics) for 40 years (from the "center", I can tell you one thing: the Dems are for "the little guy" only to KEEP him "little.

Look at the last election: the average campaign donation for the Republicans averaged $33.00 The Dems got close to $400 million from two (American hating); George Soros (international crook) and Peter Lewis, owner of "Progressive" insurance.

If approximately 86% of Americans believe in a God, then how can the religious be labeled as on the right?

(edit for spelling)

[edit on 9-1-2006 by zappafan1]

I never said the religeous right wasn't in tune with a majority, but are we not the melting pot based on many cultures and faiths? I seem to remember a constitution that we used to follow that said something about that...
And I understand a lot of the insurgents are comming from Iran or Syria. I never said they were all Iraqis.
Do you have any constructive opinions to voice or are you just going to pull quotes and refute everything I post?
And what exactly were the results of diplomacy? Saddam didnt invite W over to play in the sandbox? Of course they arent going to be friends. These people are so far away from us ideologically that I doubt we will ever be allies. Unless we obliterate the mideast, we will not win the war in any conventional sense.
The failed diplomacy in Iraq, as you put it, had much better results than your war...I think you are being blinded by the red, white, and blue my friend.
I love America too.
I love her enough to admit we might be wrong...

Luda, I understand what you are saying. You are correct. This is my gripe. You preach that "that is how it is, get used to it." I say thats how it is, how do we fix it? This is supposed to be a gov't by the people, for the people. Do you guys honestly think this is still true?!
You can roll with it, but I say indifference is almost worse than evil.

".... I never said the religeous right wasn't in tune with a majority, but are we not the melting pot based on many cultures and faiths? I seem to remember a constitution that we used to follow that said something about that"

REPLY: The Constitution and Bill of Rights are quite firmly intact. But the old saw about being a "melting pot" was just that. A "tossed sald" would be more descriptive. Also, since the vote allows for somewhat of a majority rule principle, than those 86% would hold some sway in the way things go...

".... And what exactly were the results of diplomacy? Saddam didnt invite W over to play in the sandbox? Of course they arent going to be friends. These people are so far away from us ideologically that I doubt we will ever be allies. Unless we obliterate the mideast, we will not win the war in any conventional sense."

REPLY: By locating the epicenter of the clash of civilization we are now in (and have been for decades), and trying to instill some sort of freedom for those people, we help to sway the surrounding region with freedom.... it's already happening in Iran; the younger, educated people there are against the Islamic-run state, so we have sowed the seeds of freedom there without firing a single shot. And it also moved the war from America to Iraq. Better the terrorists die there than in the streets here.

".... The failed diplomacy in Iraq, as you put it, had much better results than your war...I think you are being blinded by the red, white, and blue my friend."

REPLY: No... but maybe "blinded" by the idea of freedom for peoples in oppressed countries.

.

I cannot argue with a rational man Zappa. I wish you were another idiot on this board because we definately disagree, and I would have an easier time refuting you. I applaud you for actually knowing WHY you support this mess. Too many support it for the wrong reasons. I guess only time will tell who is right on this one.
I, for one, hope you are right.

REPLY: I, too, hope I am right... and for the right reasons. I would consider you, also, as rational, and I agree in principle that there are many here that, unfortunately, are NOT rational. I view arguing and discussion as two different things, but I do both; not to change ones views by what I say or present in links, but so that I and others have enough information on which to base a sensible view of events.

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[edit on 17-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

See, playing nice kills the thread.

(no longer a one liner)

".... See, playing nice kills the thread."

Geez.... did I do that? 8^) As to this "document", it will fall by the wayside, just as the whole Enron investigation did. It's just more political grandstanding.

I am getting to the point now that I want to see it pushed if for no other reason than to make the democrats do something.
Its been my opinion that the right pisses everyone off with their actions, and then the left just whines about it. I want to see an actual balance in our politics, whether right or wrong. Until we can satisfy the will of a majority (and 51% is a crappy majority), both parties are worthless.

We have lots of noise, but no action.

Even if you side with the current administration, wouldnt you like to see some action from the dems? While obviously not the favorite, they do represent a lot of Americans as well. Until all the voices are heard we have a dictatorship with lots of little dictators, rather than one big one.

I dont know what all the fuss is...

If you all would just stop trying to make trouble for the administration...
you would see... as soon as you give in, it all feels better...

take off your tinfoil hat, and just drink the water...
all those worries go away quickly, and soon, you will be able to enter society again... they have nice schools to help you relearn how to be a good citizen...
they will help you...

just give in, and you will see, it is all so much nicer on this side, everything sunny and bright, and the president is our loving leader...

just give in... come on...

That you Uncle Sam?

or maybe Satan...

"quotes" posted by LazarusTheLong

REPLIES: by zappafan1

".... take off your tinfoil hat, and just drink the water...
all those worries go away quickly, and soon, you will be able to enter society again... they have nice schools to help you relearn how to be a good citizen...
they will help you...

just give in, and you will see, it is all so much nicer on this side, everything sunny and bright, and the president is our loving leader..."

REPLY: I would suggest doing some research over the past 40 years and see which side is doing all the messing with the schools, and what their aims are.....

Originally posted by DaFunk13
Luda, I understand what you are saying. You are correct. This is my gripe. You preach that "that is how it is, get used to it." I say thats how it is, how do we fix it? This is supposed to be a gov't by the people, for the people. Do you guys honestly think this is still true?!
You can roll with it, but I say indifference is almost worse than evil.

Why bother trying to fix the unfixable, I mean without going deep into Congressmen and Seantors lives, how can we be sure theyre playing by the rules. Honestly corruption is just one of those things that has always been there and well never get rid of it completely. We can however reduce the problem, for one we can make examples out of all of these men, two we can maybe get legislation in congress to make it legal to keep tabs on politicians funds in cases when htey are living beyond their income, which I'm sure they already do but nothing is done about it. To me theres no real solution to this problem because of humans in general. No matter how much of anything we have, its never enough.