Bush impeached for federal crimes?

Bush is getting away with crimes do to the fact that the powers that help put him in the white house will protect him from any wrong doings.

Remember right after the leak of the spying how nervous he started to look, now he is leaning back and relaxing because he knows that he will get over it.

funny how things get worked out in this country now a days.

BTW it has nothing divine either.

only democrates get impeached

This buisness about the wire taps and privacy. Good grief.. do any of you have any idea how much your privacy has been eroded by technology of which we use so friviously and take for granted every day???
If someone wants to know anything about you ..especially the Feds..one of the first and obvious people they will talk to is your postman. They know quite a bit about what is going on in your household by the type of mail you have frequenting your door. Constant letters from lawyers and credit companys are very telling. QVC purchases can be easily verified by computer. They have for years and years before it ever made the news been able to monitor what you check out of the library. Same with E-Bay purchases or any other thing you buy on line. Where is the privacy?? Did this start under the Bush administration??
Division of Motor Vehicles records are always a starting place for people to snoop into your buisness. Not just Feds but others too.
The telephone companys..much to the ignorance of the average public..has had for years and years now provisos under federal regulations to accomodate federal agencys for numerous reasons...this is not new news or information. Any talk with someone who has ever worked for a phone company will clear this up. Do you people think this has changed with the advent of computers since so many use the phone lines for this. It has not changed either with DSL or Cable hook ups..this has mainly increased the speed at which you can be monitored ..while giving the appearence of you getting information faster. This was not instituted under the Bush Administration. Where is the privacy????
Oh...the switch from rotary dial up to touch tone has only increased also the ability to monitor and trace calls. This was one of its main purposes ...not necessarily the convenience for which it was sold to the public. This was not instituted under the Bush administration. Where is the privacy???

This little card you get from the Sams club, Costco, or Farm Fresh ..or the Food lion. You take it gladly because you think you are getting discounts especially on larger purchases.
What many of you dont know or recognize is that your purchases in thier entirety can be tied to you by this card..whether you pay by "Cash" or credit card or check..it can all now be traced to you and your very doorstep. This did not start with the Bush administration. Where is the privacy..why do they need to know what you are buying and how much of it?? Who is looking at this private information?? Someone knows what you are buying and the seasonal variations or trends in your home.
Your checking/savings account can be monitored from the feds...through banking regulations...for any reason...you dont think so ..but it can. and has been this way for years..all they need is cause. This is not new information...the only reason they would need a warrent is if they were going to take it to court. This does not keep agencys from monitoring your accounts. This did not begin with the Bush Administration.
The people of whom I am familiar who are not that easy to monitor are folks like the Amish and Mennonites who are not in the system of control.
I am just constantly astonished as to how much privacy some of you really think you have and are entitled to. So many of us in our provincialness dont have a clue how much information is out there on us so quickly accessed. This is not new or just started by the Bush Administration.

These storys coming out in the news are pure politics and done by politicians and political groups like the media shilling for thier respective partys. It is political whoredom on both sides. You wont see either side telling you what I just posted here. Why is that????
Most of us have long since lost our privacy ...and dont seem to notice it. Amazing to me!!!!
By the way..phone calls into or out of the USA have always been monitored. This is not new information. It did not start with the Bush Administration.
REmember this buisness with the computer programs called ...I think ..Carnivore and Echelon. Do you think these have not been replaced with more effecient tools?? By the way ..this did not happen under the Bush Administration either.

Anyway..many of you folks think you have or are entitled to so much privacy. I suspect many of us havent a clue as to how we volenteered our privacy away for convenience....and dont know it.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999

I agree that we have not privacy anymore, but the fact that has been so blatantly obvious that even our own government that was put in power to protect our constitutional rights decided to over step those rights on its own it tells that they have forgotten what they were put in power to uphold and protect.

Bush had not need to do what he did, unless he wanted more than just spying on Al-qaida related conversations.

That troubles me very much.

If our government fail to protect our constitutional rights then who is going to protect us from the government if decides to take away those rights.

This brings me to what Soficrow said in another thread, is a reason why is laws and procedures in this country to protect the rights of the American people.

When the checks and balances are not keep then absolute power will raise and laws to protects that power will be make against the people.

Just think about it.

But you are right we have not privacy but we actually give it away willingly is not taken by force.

[edit on 31-12-2005 by marg6043]

Hey, Marg, can either you or soficrow point out the exact federal law that was broken by the Bush Administration over the NSA international wiretapping issue?

Thanks.






seekerof

[edit on 31-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Oh, seekerof I am so tired of all the defending of Bush abuse of power that I will only saiy again that he had not reason to go over the court appointed to make sure than everything was within the law.

No matter what his power may be or you may think he has is checks and balances in this country to protect us from the absolute power that can arise when somebody in power like the president decides that he doesn't need approval to do what he feels he wants to do.

I will leave it at that, your mind will never give way to reasoning and understanding of my meaning and the meaning of many that feels like me.

It is nothing wrong with listening to conversations of known Al-qaida links but when the spying include American citizens that has nothing to do with al-qaida that should trouble you and every American in this country.

But that is OK this the way that the Bush administration is doing business Bush is in control and he doesn't need anybody to tell him what he can do or not.

We will see what will come out of this one and if we ever will find out what really he was doing while ordering the spying on Americans.

I guess the government is watching us but who is watching and keeping the government from abusing the power given to them by the people of this country I guess nobody.

Happy new year.

Originally posted by marg6043
Oh, seekerof I am so tired of all the defending of Bush abuse of power that I will only saiy again that he had not reason to go over the court appointed to make sure than everything was within the law.

You mean about as tired as some of us are of all the unadulterated bashing of Bush and his alleged 'abuses of power'?

No matter what his power may be or you may think he has is checks and balances in this country to protect us from the absolute power that can arise when somebody in power like the president decides that he doesn't need approval to do what he feels he wants to do.

You, as with others, keep spouting abuses and law breaking, and yet, have failed to point out exactly what laws are being abused and broken. I can count a significant number of past presidents that have abused power and decided that they do not need approval to do what they feel is in the best interests of this nation.

I will leave it at that, your mind will never give way to reasoning and understanding of my meaning and the meaning of many that feels like me.

Likewise.

It is nothing wrong with listening to conversations of known Al-qaida links but when the spying include American citizens that has nothing to do with al-qaida that should trouble you and every American in this country.

If Al Qaeda is conversing with an American, guess what?

But that is OK this the way that the Bush administration is doing business Bush is in control and he doesn't need anybody to tell him what he can do or not.

Bush is doing his job. You are aware of what that job is?

We will see what will come out of this one and if we ever will find out what really he was doing while ordering the spying on Americans.

Most certainly. I look forward to the investigation next year.

I guess the government is watching us but who is watching and keeping the government from abusing the power given to them by the people of this country I guess nobody.

Think about that each and every time you vote, for it matters not what political affiliation a politician has, abuse of power is always a possibility among and from them.

Happy new year.

Same to you.






seekerof

Marge..you and I have not seen eye to eye on many issues in this forum of ATS/BTS. No problem here. I just dont approve of all this emotional histronics I see as the ballywick of excellence in many posters. To me it is not a sign of excellence. It also often does not allow us to see clearly beyond our emotions. I think this causes some hardship between you and me.

I do however ..share some of your concerns about this spying buisness.

What I need to let you and others know about this buisness is some of the background by which I came to or arrived at this type of thought process and knowlege.
First off..I am a licensed Amateur radio operator. Amateur radio operators cover the whole spectrum of Americana ..from every economic and buisness level...top to bottom. Many of us are ex military having served in some capacity at some point in our lives. Amateurs will often tell you many things not known by the American public if you ask carefully and thoughtfully. Not necessarily things to do with Amateur Radio directly but electronics ..definitely.
Second ..I am in the buisness of building submarines and aircraft carriers for a living. As a radio operator..its a real kick for me to go into the radio rooms and check out the equipment before they put the cypher locks on the doors and lock out non security cleared peoples. I love to see the quality of the coxial cable used ..the hook ups, switch boxes..and of course the types of antennas in use.
I am going to tell you this since it has been covered many times on the web by others and in numerous articles. One of the chief jobs of our submarine fleet in addition to the obvious ..carrying missles and hunting other submarines and surface ships ...is intelligence gathering...of all types.
What you realize ..eventually when you look at a ship/boat as a whole system ..and then the philosophy of your leaders/leadership who control them.. is that we as a nation are in the buisness of spying on our friends as well as our enemies. Make no mistake about this Marge..our friends and enemies are doing the same. This is known information in certian circles..especially by the news media. Notice they dont post this view on the nightly news..but it is known and true.
The truth is , Marge, that any Navy ship can serve in this function...but submarines are inherently suited by stealth capabilities to this very task.

Since we spy on our friends as well as enemies...how big a step is it to spy on our own people?? Not very. This has been going on for a very long time and only gotten more sophisticated in its application.
At least you seem to get the point that we often volenteer unknowingly into this ability to monitor these spying activities on ourselves. I am encouraged in this.
This , Marge, is some of how I came into the knowlege of some of the views in my earlier post. This does not make me better that other posters. No way. It does make my thinking process different also my emotional approach.

This world outside our own personal doors is not a nice place. I dont ever count on this person or that person .or this party or that party to make it a better place for me. Its just something I know from observation. I also dont think I am entitled to better or deserve better....If I want it so I know I have to make it so in this small peace of land I dwell on.
It is my firm belief that if I look for a politician ..to make it better I am making a mistake. Any politician.

I also need you , Marge, to understand that I am not a Republican. No way. I am very conservative..but not Republican. I dont have anymore confidence in them overall than I do thier so called oppositon.
I am however conservative. I do not consider the Republican party to be conservative.

This being said..I am however concerned with this spying buisness ..not because of misuse by this administration..in spying on Americans ..but other administrations following this one to use it to prop up thier politicial stance. This became obvious with some story a number of years back about some FBI information files being missing and used to check out some political opposition. It was years before these files ever turned up. It became obvious that they were not used to check out some national security issues but for domestic comptetiton reasons. Not a word has turned up about this line of thinking. Silence!! At the time this broke I found this to be a gross misuse of office for political reasons. This line of conduct would concern me more than any use of power looking for foreign spys or operatives. I would find this a gross mususe no matter who is doing it.
This buisness also confirmed for me what I had been thinking slowly for many years. That the average American going about their normal buisness is the competition for our government. No matter what party is in office. It is us ..we who must be controlled. Not the Russians, not the Arabs...not what most of us think ..but the American public. This is the purpose of the information highway...to maintain this control. This is also the purpose of the news media. This is why I am skeptical of much of the American News media..even Fox...by what they dont tell us.
Much of my news and information I now get from this computer..but much discretion needs to be used here too as there is alot of junk out here even in the news and information formats.

This buisness of hearings coming up on domestic spying in the committees in 2006 will be a joke..it will be entirely political just as all the other hearings were. They must work hard to not let certain real spying information get to the Amrerican public. I dispise this type of cheap politics on the backs of the American Public. It will pure politicial whoredom on the part of both partys. If it was that important it would be going on right now..not wait until the new year. This should be obvious. It is all politics.

Anyway, Marge, Thanks for your post. I am glad that you understand the concept that we unknowingly volenteer into alot of our own domestic spying without knowing it..this is a important piece of knowlege.

Take care and thanks,
Orangetom

Thanks Orangetom I understand where you come from now, tell it is true that the airways has been controlled as many claim?

Also my husband works for one of the defense department private companies also in communications equipment, the project is to unify all the arm forces into one communication equipment that all the branches can use instead and be able to shared and be informed of what each branch is doing at the same time.

I don't know much about the entire thing but is suppose to be a big project with a lot of funding and was supposed to be first used in Iraq but now something happen and the project has been rolled back and everybody that is working on it has been put on hold,I guess is better to have all branches unified in case of something happen instead of communications been split all around.

Is true spying is a daily occurrence but is certain things that are put in places for the safe state of mind of the populace and the glass bubble has been shattered.

If Bush didn't spy on our enemies, I would be for his impeachment on those grounds.

There is a reason we haven't had an attack since 9/11, and it's not because our enemies have stopped trying

Terrorist made America a battleground. Battleground intelligence is proper in this situation.

Imagine how WW1 or WW2 would have turned out if we could not have spied on our enemies.

George W. Bush....Protecting your butt whether you like it or not!

Originally posted by Carseller4
George W. Bush....Protecting your butt whether you like it or not!

I may agree with everything but this one, sorry but the only butt Bush is protecting is his and his corporate buddies, and that is something that not need to be prove is out there for everybody that have eyes to see.

Keep an eye out for Bushs public approval polls. Lets face it the most important thing to a politican is reelection. Right now, a poll taken by MSNBC, reports that 85 percent favor impeachment. Both democrats and Republicans are calling for an investigation about impeachment, but not on just Bush. But Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Gonzales. I have read a few people that are saying impeaching is impossible while the republicans are in control, however if Bushs polls keep slipping Republicans will distant themselves. Also, evidence people ask? Intelligence on Iraq War, people testifying how Bush was obsessed with Saddam. Torture, people being held in the US for an indefinite time, Katrina, wire taps. I know right now these all aggegations, but I have a feeling that you will see in 2006 a lot of evidence showing how corrupt this regime really is. LOL so if they do impeach Bush and Cheney we should all say hello to the next President, President Dennis Hastert. Nice ring, huh? Political Professors are saying this is the year to watch. Happy New YEAR!

Originally posted by CMCLA2003
Keep an eye out for Bushs public approval polls. Lets face it the most important thing to a politican is reelection. Right now, a poll taken by MSNBC, reports that 85 percent favor impeachment.

Ha! Quoting a MSNBC poll would be like quoting a Bill O'Reilly poll. Get real!

Rasmussen has Bush's approval currently at 47%. So how can 85% favor impeachment?

www.rasmussenreports.com...

I meant to tell you...in my earlier post. That communictions system your husband was working on. It is long overdue. The militarys should long ago have had such equipment. When they work closely together they obviously need the ability to communicate properly. Everyone needs the ability when working closely together to be on the same page. This was a big drawback in the first gulf war. I am surprised it is taking so long. Perhapsed this is a more updated system. Hope so..but it is needed.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Carseller4
[Ha! Quoting a MSNBC poll would be like quoting a Bill O'Reilly poll. Get real!

Rasmussen has Bush's approval currently at 47%. So how can 85% favor impeachment?

www.rasmussenreports.com...

47 percent might support the job he is doing on certain fronts, but it doesn't mean they support him entirely (especially using illegal wire tap on our citizens.)

Question: Do polls really mean remotely anything to a man that will not be running for president in 2008?






seekerof

They mean a lot actually. Because congressional leaders who are up for reelection look at those polls, and low approval ratings will cause the bush administration to drop some of there programs or some of its agenda. Like social security reform, and it might be harder to pass things through the house and senate because congressional leaders don't want to go down with a sinking ship.

mod edit to remove quote of previous post

[edit on 3-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by CMCLA2003
They mean a lot actually. Because congressional leaders who are up for reelection look at those polls, and low approval ratings will cause the bush administration to drop some of there programs or some of its agenda. Like social security reform, and it might be harder to pass things through the house and senate because congressional leaders don't want to go down with a sinking ship.

mod edit to remove quote of previous post

[edit on 3-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

And you think Bush cares about anyone other than himself ... why?

Originally posted by MrBunny
Bush's recent admittance to authorizing taps without a court order. This is a federal crime,

What law did he break?

How long do you think it will be before Bush is impeached?

He will never be impeached.

Legal fiction or fiction of law:

An assuption or supposition that something which is or may be false is true or that a state of facts exists which has never really taken place. An assumption for the purposes of justice of a fact that does not or may not exist. A rule of law which asssumes as true and will not allow to be disapproved. Something which is false but not impossible.

These assumptions are of innocent and even benificial character and are made for the advancement of the ends of justice. They secure this end chiefly by the extension of procedure from the cases to which it is applicable to other cases to which it is not strictly applicable, the ground of inapplicability being some difference of an immaterial character.

From Blacks Law Dictionary Sixth Edition

In Politics this often takes the form of trial by press. Trial by media. And then of course...followed by trial by press again ..by Committee. A huge public specatcle.

Buckle up..but keep this definition in mind.

Thanks,
Orangetom