Behind the Steel Curtain: The Real Face of the Occupation

Originally posted by Souljah
You know, the number of Fallen US Soldiers in WWII is around 420.000.

While the people of Yugoslavia, had to pay with 1.100.000 Lives - my GrandFather Inlcuded.

And let's not Forget the people of Soviet Union, to which the Europe has to be Really Thankful for their Liberaton and Freedom from the Nazi Occupation, for they PAID far LARGER price then ANY other Nation in the World: 23 Million Lives!

While I normally wouldn't agree with you - you're absolutely right. I get fed up with hearing people crying about how hard done by they are across the water considering what this country (England) and other European countries have been through during the wars and with terrorism.
Japan was nuked for Pearl Harbour, Pearl Harbour lost 68 civilians. Japan lost 100s of thousands. Don't get me wrong, it helped save countless lives and all that - but still...

Look at the Blitz here in England from 25 August 1940 to 16 May 1941.

The first German raids on British cities had already taken place by the end of August 1940, when Birmingham and Liverpool were attacked, but on 7 September the Blitz intensified when around 950 German aircraft attacked London. It was the first and last mass daylight raid on London, but it heralded the first of 57 consecutive nights of bombing.

The daylight raid alone caused some 300 civilian deaths and a further 1,300 serious injuries; by the end of the Blitz, around 30,000 Londoners would be left dead, with another 50,000 injured. Fortunately, millions of children, mothers, patients and pensioners had already been evacuated to the countryside.
www.bbc.co.uk...

So you'll have to excuse me if I get slightly niggled when I hear people say about 9/11 and how 'we don't know what it's like' - which I have done in the past.
Out of curiosity, what's the longest bombing campaign the USA has ever suffered?

Sorry, I don't want anyone to think I don't care about what has happened to the USA in the past, far from it, nor do I want people to think I am not grateful for everything they have done for us. But at the same time I find the blinkered attitude that some people have thinking that they have had it the worst ever so slightly stomach churning.

Originally posted by Souljah
Hello!

You know, the number of Fallen US Soldiers in WWII is around 420.000.

While the people of Yugoslavia, had to pay with 1.100.000 Lives - my GrandFather Inlcuded.

And let's not Forget the people of Soviet Union, to which the Europe has to be Really Thankful for their Liberaton and Freedom from the Nazi Occupation, for they PAID far LARGER price then ANY other Nation in the World: 23 Million Lives!

So, Pretty Please, with Sugar on Top, STOP taking all the Credit, will you?

Thanks!

With respect stop blowing it out of your 6, russia and the US both played parts and netheir could have achieved anything without the other.
The US went several thousand miles from home to fight for europe, russia had to drive its forces several thousand miles across hostile terrain to push the germans back, the UK sat and took pounding after pounding striking back at hitler with all it had, france fought its resistance war, etc ,etc.
Frankly IF you are so trying to brush off the american contribution to the war your ignorant, btw your country would have been supporting the german warmachine BTW.

Originally posted by devilwasp
With respect stop blowing it out of your 6, russia and the US both played parts and netheir could have achieved anything without the other.
The US went several thousand miles from home to fight for europe, russia had to drive its forces several thousand miles across hostile terrain to push the germans back, the UK sat and took pounding after pounding striking back at hitler with all it had, france fought its resistance war, etc ,etc.
Frankly IF you are so trying to brush off the american contribution to the war your ignorant, btw your country would have been supporting the german warmachine BTW.

With all Due Respect,
I am Tired, just like mister AgentSmith before me, for Hearing one thousand and second time the Phrase we Saved your A** in WWII, for the United States played an Important Role in this War on all Fronts, but these People make it sound like that they EVERYTHING. Like the Nations and Nationalities of Europe did Nothing, just Collaborate with the Enemy. England was never under Enemy Occupation - the Rest of the Europe was, and you never felt the Nazi Boot on your Neck when lying on the Ground. Just as the United Stats did not.

And People did die in Millions - so we shold thank ALL THE ALLIES who fought the Third Reich in this War.

And a part of my Country - the Traitors - did Support the Enemy War Machinery, and they killed their own Countrymen and send them to Death Camps, so there was a little War going on in every country in Europe, not just MINE, and the rest of the World.

BUT, we are AGAIN getting Severly off topic, and that is my fault completly.

Sorry Moderators!



[edit on 7/1/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
With all Due Respect,
I am Tired, just like mitser Agent Smith before me, for Hearing one thousand and second time the Phrase we Saved your A** in WWII, for the United States played an Important Role in this War on all Fronts, but these People make it sound like that they EVERYTHING. Like the Nations and Nationalities of Europe did Nothing, just Collaborate with the Enemy.

So what? I'm tired of it to but making it out that they never contributed or thier loss of life was "little" compared to anyone else is sickening.

England was never under Enemy Occupation - the Rest of the Europe was, and you never felt the Nazi Boot on your Neck when lying on the Ground. Just as the United Stats did not.

And nethier did you, your grand fathers and mothers may hvae but not you.
England was not under invasion but the UK was, the channel islands where taken and under occupation.

And People did die in Millions - so we shold thank ALL THE ALLIES who fought the Third Reich in this War.

Yes we should, but makeing one out to "less" than the others is NOT right.
We're europeans for god sake, we're supposed to set an example, LEAD by example.

And a part of my Country - the Traitors - did Support the Enemy War Machinery, and they killed their own Countrymen and send them to Death Camps, so there was a little War going on in every country in Europe, not just MINE, and the rest of the World.

Dont shun it away, you know what I said was right.

I cannot stand it when Americans claim they saved everyones ass in WW2 either.

The US decidedly stayed out of the war until the British and Russians finally got the upper hand... yeah thanks US...

Even Canada, little Canada rose to the occasion and strode straight into battle. They even built the worlds third largest navy in order to assist britain. This is CANADA I'm talking about here. The land of the relaxed peace loving liberals.

The US didnt enter the war in europe until they felt they could emerge looking like the hero, and with minimal casualties compared to the real heroes who had been fighting there the whole time.

Some of you guys would have your Granddaddys rolling in there graves.

WW2 was a joint effort it wasnt won by any single country, it was the ALLIED forces, with out the help of everyone the world would be a much different ball game now.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Some of you guys would have your Granddaddys rolling in there graves.

And Some of You Guys have your Founding Fathers Rolling in their Graves.

Originally posted by Souljah
And Some of You Guys have your Founding Fathers Rolling in their Graves.

Why?

Did you have to ask him that really? If you know Souljahs views then you dont have to ask at all. Of all the allies in WW2, Russia made had the largest loss of soldiers, someone correct me if I'm wrong, 20 Million(or was that total with Civilian losses?) No one can dispute that because it is fact. But if you look at the ammount of war material the US gave them, you see that the US made it possible for them to continue their fight. I'm sure the Russians would have continued fighting, but without the tanks, ammunition, planes, bombs and other materials from the US, their fight would have been futile. Just the same though, if Russia did not take the on and defeat the largest part of the German military, then Europe would have surely fallen. They took the brunt of Germanys Army. Just like the US and the UK depended on each other in the North African and Italy campaigns, one could not have won without the other. That is the point of allies, to ensure victory.

This is not PTS guys, but that can be easily arranged.

I suggest a quick re-read of this thread, and chilling:
Effective IMMEDIATELY

Johnsky. With all do respect, What a load of.... When the us entered the war in Dec. of 1941, the Soviet union was getting its head handed to them by the German Army, England was getting pounded by the german luftwaffe almost daily. Yes both were fighting gallently, never doubt that. But I hate to break this to you, and everyone else, without the contributions of the US, The outcome of the war would have been decidedly different. Who was the sponsor of Lend-Lease? Where did most of the Atlantic convoys originate from? Who armed the Soviet Union until Stalin could get the armament plants in the Caucuaces up and going? The answer to all of the above questions is (drum roll...) the United States of America. Sorry toburst your bubble and all.

Originally posted by seagull
Johnsky. With all do respect, What a load of.... When the us entered the war in Dec. of 1941, the Soviet union was getting its head handed to them by the German Army, England was getting pounded by the german luftwaffe almost daily. Yes both were fighting gallently, never doubt that. But I hate to break this to you, and everyone else, without the contributions of the US, The outcome of the war would have been decidedly different. Who was the sponsor of Lend-Lease? Where did most of the Atlantic convoys originate from? Who armed the Soviet Union until Stalin could get the armament plants in the Caucuaces up and going? The answer to all of the above questions is (drum roll...) the United States of America. Sorry toburst your bubble and all.

With respect, the US wouldnt have been able to do squat with out ALL of the allies.

Plan on mounting an invasion of europe without a staging point?

Plan on invading the europe with the ENTIRE german army waiting for you?

No argument with that at all. The allies did indeed defeat the Axis powers together. My entire point was, that without the material support and military support to thier fellow allies, the war would have turned out much differently. Perhaps I should have phrased it differently in my prior post. Does this clear up my meaning any?

World War II was won by the Allied Forces but ppl like it or not had the US not entered the war the outcome would have been much different. I agree with Seagull the British as well as the other nations fought with courage and skill but sorry folks no way could they have won without us. I myself was privleged to spend time on a Royal Navy Base working with the British Royal Navy they were and are fine people with courage and dignity and they are indeed our true allies as opposed to others who claim to be.

From :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by StandingbyI am talking about the logistical support that allowed the russian infantry to move 3000 miles to engage the Germans, I am talking about the Lend LEase Act, that effectively saved Russia from a certain demise.

Lend lease allowed the great offensives of 1944 and 1945 without which the Germans would have had sufficient manpower left in France to make D-day as bloody as the allies expected while also allowing lines to be generally maintained on the East front. It would not very likely, or in my opinion at all, have resulted in the Soviets losing but the war would have dragged on MANY more years.

The Russians won world war 2, the also took the massive brunt of the full weight of the Germans. The allies fought nothing in comparison on such a scale as that of the easern front.

It would be silly to suggest that there were not severe fighting between the allied forces and Germany elsewhere but in terms of the number of formations involved and the 'free' wheeling style of warfare on the great open planes of European Russia it can not compare.

Russia could not have mobilized its reserves in the precious time needed without the 4 million miles of power lines and the 400,000 troop transport trucks, and the Millions of gallons of aviation fuel. Without these resources Russia would not have had the manpower to do what they did.

Russia could have easily mobilized ( recruit and train) the many millions they did but to actually equip them with modern fighting systems in the numbers they did and keep them supplied would not have been possible to the extant it was by the end of 1943 and onwards. Since the Wehrmacht was by the campaigning season of 1943 already in serious trouble ( 1942 included some disasters for Germany but larger ones for the SU) it would have gone better probably resulting in a Kursk stalemate without the Russians having sufficient power to affect a counteroffensive at Orel leading to 1943 being a far less devastating year for the Wehrmacht.

It was a collaboration of the allies, Jews included. That won world war 2, the Rusian just did 90% of the fighting and dying. I salute the Russians and respect the heck out of them.

But still you have felt the need to presume that all the fighting and dying were only ultimately successful because of Lend lease? Well that just ain't true! The US could have very well used all the resources and supplies itself to reinvigorate the invasion of Italy or launch a invasion of Europe earlier but it CHOSE to send it to Russia knowing that they could apply the resources more effectively ( and probably with not many more casualties) than they could. As can be seen from how US infantry fared in Guandacanal ,North-Africa , Sicily and later Italy it was a good decision that likely saved millions of American/British lives as well , for that matter, Russian one's.

Back on topic we go, i hope, as every post i make results in me falling behind a few pages in this thread!

Stellar