Bush OK'd spying on americans without warrents

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Can you show me in what way he violated the Constitution by authorizing the survellance of suspected militants that is known to roam freely about the United States?

The Constitution requires a warrant. The 4th Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I'll just go ahead and say it again, if you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about!

You know, if we could trust our government AND trust the legal system to be accurate 100% of the time, I might agree with you on that. But the sad fact is that we cannot trust our government. This story here is proof! And also look at all the innocent people in the prisons and those who have been put to death only to discover that they were innocent.

No, I'm not doing anything wrong, but the Constitution guarantees my right to be secure in my own private stuff. And this president has violated that.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I'll just go ahead and say it again, if you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about!

the problem with this attitude is where does it stop?????

So would you support door to door searches of EVERYONES house for drugs, illegal, guns, suspected reading material, Moonshine, bodys in the back yard, etc?

After all if you are innocent you would have nothing to worry about.

How about cameras in EVERY home ala 1984? If you are doing nothing wrong you shouldnt mind them watching you every moment right?

How about manditory lie detector tests for EVERYONE asking if you use drugs, have bad thoughts about the government, cheat on your wife, cheat on your taxes, etc.

If you are a good little boy it shouldnt matter, right?

How about tracking devices implanted in everyone? How about your kids being taught to report any "UnAmerican" talk around your House? Taps on ewveryones Phone, Computer etc?

If you are not doing anything wrong what the heck, right???

If you give the Government an Inch they will take a mile a year later. What worries me is not us being rounded up and shot over night but the SLOOOOOOW erosion of our freedom and rights with the Government needing "Just one more law" to make things all better.

I am 55 and believe me we have lost a LOT in the time I have been alive. Half our paychecks go to the Government, we have judges and congress claiming we dont even HAVE a right to privicy, the supreme court claiming that now Wal-Mart can throw you off your own propertry if they want it,

Its not the America of today that scares me the most (although I am worried about my country) but the America of 2020 or 2030 etc.

What will it be like then if we just shurg our shoulders everytime they pass a new law to "protect" us from whatever boogyman or just to protect us from ourselves.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I'll just go ahead and say it again, if you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about!

let's ask Jean Charles de Menezes what he thinks about that. oh wait, we cant because hes dead after being shot 9 times on a public tube train. why? he was mistaken for a terrorist because a policeman had to pee. im sure he thought he had nothing to worry about that morning seeing as he had done nothing wrong.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I do beleave this story is true and there are radical Muslims in America planning to kill as many innocents as they can. If anyone denies this, than your ignorant beyond words....9/11 was all the proof we needed.

After 9/11 our good president did'nt have special commisions to study weather this was good policy or not...he took decisive action to protect us from further attacks.

Thats called Leadership.

Maximu§

Are you willing to die for your freedom? becasue I am even if its at the hands of the terrorists. I'd rather die by a terrorist then give up any freedom because with out freedom thier is no choice, and without a choice thier is no free will, and free will is my god given right. The right to decide for myself. I guess my govements just trying to protect the sanctecty of life at our cost of my freedom. A freedom that my forefathers died for and I would to.

I do not see what all the noise is about.
This has been part of our lives for decades in one shape or form.
Even our beloved JFK, was not above convertly monitoring US citizens who the goverment thought were suspicious. Also let us not forget the McArthur era where this was actually an accepted even welcomed activity (as long as you were not the target )

I have fought in the past for the freedoms that we enjoy today and yes, I am willing to fight and even die today to protect those feedoms now and in the future.

Do I like this "secret monitoring" by the CIA / FBI no. But I also know that this "secret monitoring" has not been kept too secret. There have been a number of news articles as well as threads here on ATS that have discussed this issue to death.
A couple of examples to prove the point:
Flawed FBI Probe Of Bombing Used A Secret Warrant
THE SECRET FISA COURT: RUBBER STAMPING ON RIGHTS

CogitoErgoSum1

Jealousy? Come now, My Tovarich. To which part of post, do you speak of this jealousy? Somehow, I think your Gaijin ways, of being in an "Intelligence" World (note the sarcasm & double entendre of that word) has influenced your mind to commit Seppukku. lol

I am not attacking, nor am I endorsing anyone to commit Seppuku, just lightening a rather dim World with My humor.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Funny what you come up with when you ADD words to the story's quote!

The words 'suspected terrorists' do not appear in the quote. You added that in there! I do international emails every day! I could have been monitored.

Ah cmon BH, you know me abit...Im not gonna toss words in here that ar'nt true. I like to think I have "some" credibility in here with the rest of the ATS gang....Im a little drunk right now so bear with me (Capt'n Morgans/Coke).

Of course I threw in "suspected terrorists" because thats who the NSA is targeting. Their the ones our boys are going after and I support them 100%.

If theres a Saudi diplomat in Algeria talking with a Saudi student in America who has ties to radical Islamic groups....yeah their calls are gonna be checked out by our security boys....thats common-sense. We have to monitor the people (Muslims) who are a danger to us.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact....and Im sure there are provisions in there for War...Im getting dizzy, Ill cya tomarrow....

Maxxxxxxx



[edit on 113131p://555 by LA_Maximus]

Perhaps your own discontent brings about your aversion for the United States; just because you conveniently play the sarcasm card doesn’t take away from the fact that you were blatantly on the attack. Its ok, trust I understand your dilemma. On one hand you have an affinity for the United States, but on the other you have envy, and envy brings jealousy, with jealousy comes abhorrence, you can disguise it as humor and sarcasm all you want…

If the government wants to listen into my conversations on the
phone, they are more than welcome to do so. I don't say anything
of importance or anything that will come back and bite me in the
back end. My life is dull.

I'm VERY sure that the government has been 'listening' in on
phone conversations for a very long time. Long before George
Bush came on the scene!! And it will be listening long after
President Hillary has departed. I'm sure computers
are programmed to pick up key words and focus on those calls
containing them.

Benevolent Heretic - your 4th amendment quote was right on!
However, honestly ... I don't care. They can listen. My conversations
would probabably put them all to sleep.



[edit on 12/18/2005 by FlyersFan]

If that is the case that they do key worlds to listen then I am in the black list, because every time I call my mother in PR I tell her all that is wrong with our country and our king in the white house.

Originally posted by Amuk
So would you support door to door searches of EVERYONES house for drugs, illegal, guns, suspected reading material, Moonshine, bodys in the back yard, etc?

I would absolutely support the idea of everyone's house being searched, including mine (for fairness), for anything that might be a threat to national security. You reallly can't distinguish the enemy in these times. They work beside you. They go to church with you. You pass them on the highways and they're eating beside you at your favorite restaurant. They do everything that Americans do. The only difference is that they're waiting for the chance for us to let our guards down and we must not do this. You've got to put everyone under scrutiny. It's only fair.

Originally posted by Amuk
How about tracking devices implanted in everyone? How about your kids being taught to report any "UnAmerican" talk around your House? Taps on ewveryones Phone, Computer etc?

I've never thought it was a bad idea to teach your children that it's not wrong to report behavior that is contrary to their teachings. It's possible that children could gather more intel from supposedly "adult" conversation than other adults because the adults engaged in "suspected" conversations wouldn't consider a child to be a threat to their motives. Just my thought.

Originally posted by Amuk
If you give the Government an Inch they will take a mile a year later. What worries me is not us being rounded up and shot over night but the SLOOOOOOW erosion of our freedom and rights with the Government needing "Just one more law" to make things all better.

I'll have to disagree with you on the thought the government takes away our rights little by little. From what I see, it is the people who are the outlaws that force the government to make new restrictions based on the actions of a few people who continually find loopholes and then screw the government and the people with their greedinees and self-serving wants.

Originally posted by Amuk
Its not the America of today that scares me the most (although I am worried about my country) but the America of 2020 or 2030 etc.

Your concerns about what's happening in the United States is something to be admired, but I can assure you that you have nothing to worry about the future of our nation. We are laying the groundwork today so that we may be able to go anywhere in the United States (or the world) and not have any fear for your life or loved ones lives. I sincerly believe that we're living and witnessing the greatest times in our history. What our government is trying to do is insure us a future from those who dare to take it away.

Intelearthling

As noble as you make it sound is still a an act of over extension of powers and the steeping over of American rights.

Sorry to burst your utopia but everything that is going on in our country under the Bush administration is starting to look more and more of how dictatorships started in other countries that cause the death of thousands of people.

But that is OK the only ones dying in great number are people in Iraq.

Still in the name of the nation and for the sake of the nation the most horrible leaders has risen against the world and their own people.

You may be happy and content with what the present administration is doing but I am not and is millions just like me.

How much more of your rights and your children rights you are willing to give away in the name of the war on terror.

Let me remind you that War on Terror is an ideology and not matter how much Bush sugar coated is going to be with us for ever.

Bush has not make the world any safer and neither the American people.