LLRV flights!

Hello everyone!

Can anyone tell me how many flights the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle made? (I only need to know how many #1 made but if you've got the figures for #2 as well great.) I've searched the internet and all I've come up with so far is that #1 made 198 flights up until the end of 1966 but it was still being used beyond that date (Armstrong crashed #1 in 1968).

Hope someone can help!

The five Lunar Landing Research/Training Vehicles (LLRV and LLTV) made the following number of flights at the NASA Flight Research Center (FRC) and Manned Spacecraft Center (MSC):

LLRV No.1 - 282 flights (198 at FRC and 84 at MSC)

LLRV No.2 - 6 flights (FRC)

LLTV No.1 - 15 flights (MSC)

LLTV No.2 - 206 flights (MSC)

LLTV No.3 - 286 flights (MSC)

For more information keep your eye out for a NASA monograph that is due for publication sometime next year:

"Unconventional, Contrary and Ugly: The Lunar Landing Research Vehicle"
By Gene J. Matranga, Wayne Ottinger, and Calvin R. Jarvis, with Christian Gelzer
Monographs in Aerospace History #35
NASA SP-2004-4535

Thanks Shadowhawk

Is this imformation available on the web and if so could you provide me with a link please.

I might be involved in a public debate with one of these Apollo hoax theorists and I'm sure he's going to use the old "Neil Armstrong crashed the LM prototype which proves it didn't works" line (by the way I know LLRV was a simulator rather than a prototype of the LM but you can't expect these guys to take facts into consideration.

Another line of attack I think he will use is the "there was no exhaust flumes coming from the LM during take off" I've got a photo of the British Black Arrow rocket taking off with transparent exhaust (it uses hypergolic propellents as well) but I think video would be more effective, however I can't seem to download the only one I've found so far (Mars Odyssy second stage!) I can only play the video!

Anyway, thanks for the help!

The LLRV information isn't on the Internet. It comes from the as yet unpublished manuscript.

The LLRV and LLTV accidents don't reflect on the success of the vehicles. Many well establihed operational aircraft crash, both military and civilian. That doesn't mean they are unsuccessful. Accidents happen. The LLRV and LLTV were exotic research aircraft and were subject to a much higher risk factor.

Three accidents out of nearly 800 flights isn't a bad ratio. There were several bad accidents (one fatal) and numerous minor incidents during the X-15 program's 199 flights and it is considered the most successful research program of all time.

Armstrong's LLRV accident resulted from loss of helium pressure due to a propellant leak, and gusty wind conditions (something that wouldn't be a problem on the Moon). For more details, see"First Man" by James R. Hansen, available in bookstores now.

In Hansen's authorized biography of Neil Armstrong, he has this important bit of information:

"The LLTV was widely regarded - and properly so - as a high-risk vehicle," Armstrong admits, "and one with which the management felt very uncomfortable. But the pilots universally, although they may have not liked the vehicle or liked flying it, they all agreed that it was the best simulation we had and gave us by far the highest confidence about what it was like to fly in the lunar environment."


After Joe Algranti's LLTV accident, MSC director Bob Gilruth and MSC director of flight operations Chris Kraft wanted to ground the vehicles. From Hansen:

"Gilruth and I were ready to eliminate it completely," Kraft notes, "but the astronauts were adamant. they wanted the training it offered." Kraft gave in, but he didn't give up. Even after the lunar landings began, either he or Gilruth "grilled every returning astronaut, hoping to find some way to get the LLTV grounded forever." They lost every time, because the astronauts wanted it."To a man," Kraft recalls, "they said it was the best training they received and was essential to landing on the Moon. So with our fingers crossed, we let them keep it."

Update:

The monograph is available online here:

www.hq.nasa.gov...