Iraq abuse - by American soldiers

Hey all, just wanted to share some nasty info...first a little background (as this is my first post and want to set it off right). I just recently got out of the Army (Airborne Infantry), and while I was in, my best friend came back from Iraq very changed, with some horrible tales I don't think he realized were that bad.

The first pertains to Abu Ghraib, and some of the abuses. Lets just say the tortures in the prison itself were nothing, and only came to light because the MP's took pictures. He is a grunt, like myself, only an E-4 at the time, and whenever his unit would capture someone MI said was a terrorist/suspect they were ordered (not directly) to break them down before they were delivered to the prison. He told me what they did to these guys, and he was kinda proud of it because most grunts are like that. Beatings to no end (especially in the back/stomach/legs to prevent visable brusing), humilation like pissing/spitting on them, they always stripped them naked and I guess smacking them in the nuts with any weapon was some kind of sick fun also. And as we all know then they were delivered to the prision, and more of this continued...and the world found out alot of it...but I just wanted more to realize it didn't just happen when they got to prison, it started as soon as they were captured.

The worst is however not the beatings. He and a couple others from the same unit (good lord) told of their sport when bored. They would buy hash from a local, and when on guard duty get high as a kite, and mess with Iraqis. It was a sick game with these *******, one would point out "oh he looks like a terrorist", and BOOM shoot the poor bastard (they were usually on rooftops), then all laugh about it later how his head exploded. This really really pissed me off...I asked "so what did they do" and he replies "nothing, it was just fun and we were high" OMFG. The saddest thing is my friend I guess thought I would laugh about it too and tell him good job for killing the towelheads, but man I didn't feel that way. I was a soldier too, if someone is shooting at me, I will not hesitate, but to shoot random people for sport or laughter...wow.

I am witholding the name of the unit he was in for my protection (I just got out a few months back), and along with his, but I will tell you it was one of the big Airborne units (and there are only a couple, take a guess).

Also I want to add this was at the start of the war, maybe 8 months after the fall of Baghdad, so not many people knew what was going on at the time. I do believe in Karma, and it has hit him hard, and I don't feel sorry for him, he cant sleep, hardly eats, has all kinds of psychological problems (I think he had them before judging by the stories, but they are worse now), and a stare that gives me the creeps. Thank God he is getting discharged from the military, he was a messed up kid before the Army, and War just made him a cold blooded psycho.

Well at least more people know what "some" of our confused/angry TEENAGERS were/are doing over there, and it will stop. I still have much respect for the military, and the people in it, hell 98% of them are good people, but there is the 2% of pure wacko's that give us all a bad name by committing atrocities in our "defense". Just wanted people to know, and I'll answer any questions you have.

Thank you very much for sharing. Although some people here will ask for a proof, I do believe you 100%. I've also heard stories (second-hand) that made my blood froze... I also believe in Karma and balance and pity this guy (he should not be your friend) for all the dirt he has put on his soul. Everybody pays, sooner or later, in this life or another.

I am guessing, that some ATSers will advise you to seek publicity and justice, but I don't think it's a good idea. It won't change a thing, except for maybe causing yourself huge problems (there were orders to torture as you said). Anyway, safely share this info whenever you can. You are right that Americans need to know what really is happening there in the midst of all these disinformation. I am really sorry that Europeans are much better informed than us and because of that have strong anti American feelings. That, of course, is unfortunate and unjust. Most people in this country do not even have the slightest idea what it is about. Come on, I read some polls that a significant portion of the American population thinks US found WMDs in Iraq...Anyway, sorry for being out of the topic, but I was just watching Bush on CNN. Once again, thanks for sharing!

I would like to ask for proof or some links. This is good to do just so people later dont have to ask. I learned to do that in most of my posts unless I'm posting my opinion. Get some credible ones though, for the sake of your own credibility I would suggest it or you will just have to go look for different sources and be labled for bias. Just lookin out for you.

There is no way I can prove any of this, as there are no pictures, websites, stories about what he/they claim they did. He was my roommate in Korea on the DMZ for a year, so spending 24 hours a day in close quarters for a year with this guy we became really good friends, and I know him alot better than I know most of my family. I was just sharing his experiences as I truly believe they are fact...he might be a killer, but he's not a liar in my experiences. Also last year he and 2 of his buddies were over at my house and they were reliving their time there (he had told me about it earlier), and they all had the same stories, so yeah, I believe what he says to be true. Why would he lie about something like that? No reason to IMO, they were proud of it and that's the scary part. Do you want pictures of one of them blowing open an innocent guys head? Or perhaps a CNN special on it? lmao... How would those exist? I was just relaying what I know to be true, and just wanted basically to know if anyone else has any input, not to "break a story" or debunk anything. But any input is welcome

Originally posted by ludaChris
I would like to ask for proof or some links. This is good to do just so people later dont have to ask. I learned to do that in most of my posts unless I'm posting my opinion. Get some credible ones though, for the sake of your own credibility I would suggest it or you will just have to go look for different sources and be labled for bias. Just lookin out for you.

Leadership Failure
Firsthand Accounts of Torture of Iraqi Detainees by the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division

hrw.org...

Confessions of soldiers who were in iraq, and at least one that testified before congress.

But, of course, you will deny it......

Originally posted by Jgruh4e
Thank you very much for sharing. Although some people here will ask for a proof, I do believe you 100%. I've also heard stories (second-hand) that made my blood froze... I also believe in Karma and balance and pity this guy (he should not be your friend) for all the dirt he has put on his soul. Everybody pays, sooner or later, in this life or another.

I too want to thank U for sharing, and I believe your font, no proof required as I have heard many a story similar to this.

I second what Jgruh4e said, I know he is your friend but damn, and karma is a bitch.
being proud of behaviour like this is insane IMO, truly sad.

And the beat goes on ...

I believe your story except for the 98% being good guys part. 10% is probably closer to the mark. Let me explain.

Soldiers cannot do such horrific deeds in isolation. Their unit knows about it, their superiors know about it, the civilians working in and around the base know about it, the soldiers' friends know about it (as evidenced by him telling you these things) etc etc. That means, there are lots of other people in the army who know these things are happening and yet are doing little or nothing to rectify the situation. They simply do not care. I have zero respect for the murderers in America's army and indeed any army.

Also, i dont think the problems these sadists and murderers face is karma or anything like that. They can come home, get money from army, see shrinks, go on with their lives. Compared to the people they have abused, murdered, it is a walk in the park. If karma or God for that matter really existed, these people would be burning in the depths of hell, along w/ these suicide bombers who target innocent civilians there...

ahhhh... damn depressing stuff...

I in no way support these kind of acts. However, its the price that is paid when you put 150,000 young men together. Hell, I live in a city of 150,000 people and I hear crime stories everyday. Did anyone ever think that you could put 150,000 people together, let alone young adults,......and expect them to act like perfect angels?????

Is it terrible?....yes.....its absolutely terrible. But is it surprising?...NO!
Its a part of war that we are not proud of,.....but then again its a part of war. The media really tends to report on the controversial stuff that rials up the public, and seems to never cover the Good that these soldiers do each day. Its always hearing headlines like........" This just in!!!"
"Breaking news!"
How often do you hear....."A new school was built for Iraqi children"

My only point is that we need to be careful not to judge these people by someones vibe, or someones rumors, or simply by the media who are bloodsuckers out for their own story interests. Many of these soldiers are our brothers and sisters,...possibly fathers and mothers, out there trying to help re-build, train iraqi soliders, and all the while protecting their backs from suicide bombers jumping in and out of crowds of women and children.
The the majority of these people are good hearted people. Just like any society of 150,000 people......there will always be crime and mishaps. Let alone during a WAR in a strange land against an enemy trying to lop off your head, or kill the little Iraqi girl that you just handed candy to.

Carburetor

With respect if MI wanted the suspect broken down there are easier ways, thats the first red flag.

The second was the "get high as a kite" on guard duty....just asking...if on guard duty I assume that the officers and senior rates (Which btw your "only" E4 or lance corporal equivilant friend is just one rank below) would notice them "getting high as kites" .....care to explain?

Also by guard duty I take it you mean OP's on roof tops of high rise flats?
Or ontop of guard buildings?
If the first then your story has holes..
If the second your story has more holes....

Excellent response DW.

I find it very hard to believe that this happened as quoted. If the men on guard are getting away with smoking weed and whatever else, then its no wonder their camps get hit by insurgents etc. After all, who is switched on enough to realize something is happening? Certainly not the guards.

I have read some disturbing accounts, and heard first hand of things in Iraq, but nothing as blatantly ridiculous as the story quoted above.

This is for your response DW..
You have voted devilwasp for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Hey thanks ArchAngel for the links to some proof on the 82nd....well I dont really think anything bad will come out of saying the unit name, so the unit this guy was in is the 101st.

On the drug topic, yes it is disturbing, and no the superiors do not noctice. When deployed they never get drug tested, and alot of soldiers who were druggies before the Army, when given an opportunity to smoke without getting cought do it...sad but true. I'm sure not many of them do this, probably only 1% of the soldiers, but that 1% is bad enough, especially with guys like him who's judgement is already a bit off, and prone to violence.

Yes, it does sound blatently rediculous, the whole story...and unfortunately it is true IMO. There is alot of proof about the torture from many different units... but I do not have any hard proof about the high on guard duty part except the fact he did the same thing in Korea all the time (buying hash from a local).

Originally posted by Devilwasp
The second was the "get high as a kite" on guard duty....just asking...if on guard duty I assume that the officers and senior rates (Which btw your "only" E4 or lance corporal equivilant friend is just one rank below) would notice them "getting high as kites" .....care to explain?

Yes I'll try to elaborate on how they get away with it. Most guard duty is done in pairs, and it's usually the E-4's (in the Army that is Specialist) and below. If both guys in the pair are smokers, who would ever find out? There arent any supervisors that come "check" on you during a guard shift, you have commo, and radio in checks every now and then, but noone is going to look in your eyes, or even get close enough to smell it usually. They said they always smoked late at night, on rooftops (where most of their shifts took place), so the chances of anyone noticing were next to nil. I am not sure if they are doing drug testing on the soldiers now deployed, but back then, they had one when they got into Saudi and one when they left, but none in the middle....so there is no way to get cought. Hope this clarifies a little.

My only point is that we need to be careful not to judge these people by someones vibe, or someones rumors, or simply by the media who are bloodsuckers out for their own story interests. Many of these soldiers are our brothers and sisters,...possibly fathers and mothers, out there trying to help re-build, train iraqi soliders, and all the while protecting their backs from suicide bombers jumping in and out of crowds of women and children.

I agree with everything you said Mr Carburetor and I understand completely why they break down prisioners...it is a necessary part of war. We just went a bit overboard with it, and I was completely disturbed by a "few" soldiers stories, and let me repeat A FEW people.... most soldiers are great people, and even though the Infantry has a higher rate of ex-criminals doesn't mean the whole Army is bad...not a chance!

I just hope now that the story is out about the torture, maybe it will change something. In the past the soldiers ordered to torture the prisoners didn't question if it was right (maybe had subconcious bad feelings about it, but never brought it to light), and now at least they know there will be concequences for torture, humiliation, and overboard interrogation tactics.

But I repeat again, this was a FEW soldiers getting high on guard duty and shooting random people, but still it is too many in my opinion. The torture is widespread, but the drug use is I'm sure not a rampant problem, just bad apples.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Also by guard duty I take it you mean OP's on roof tops of high rise flats?
Or ontop of guard buildings?

Sorry I missed this part in your post and didn't answer it... Yes, they were in OP's (observation posts) on top of flat roofed buildings..usually only a few stories tall..not a guard building on the perimiter of a US camp/base.

He's airborne or air assault? You (the two of you) were in SK with the 101st?

No man, we were in the 1/506th AASLT in South Korea, the farthest north US base (the closest to N. Korea is the Joint Security Area, which is under UN command). After that he went to the 101st ABN and I went to the 1/509th ABN.

So you are in Ft Polk when this is going on?

nevermind, the 509 was in northern iraq. Its in polk now? Seems like a disturbing situation, btw.

[edit on 13-12-2005 by Nygdan]

Yes, the 509th is at Ft. Polk, LA , but now I'm a Chairborne Ranger

Originally posted by Brohaculo
Yes, it does sound blatently rediculous, the whole story...and unfortunately it is true IMO. There is alot of proof about the torture from many different units... but I do not have any hard proof about the high on guard duty part except the fact he did the same thing in Korea all the time (buying hash from a local).

He bout hash on guard duty and didnt get noticed at all by his regiment?

Yes I'll try to elaborate on how they get away with it. Most guard duty is done in pairs, and it's usually the E-4's (in the Army that is Specialist) and below.

But where do you mean by guard duty? You mean sitting in a tower or walking the grounds.
An E-4 is equivilant to a lance corporal, one step away from corporal.

If both guys in the pair are smokers, who would ever find out?

Mabye someone who would notice the guards popping off a few rounds...

There arent any supervisors that come "check" on you during a guard shift, you have commo, and radio in checks every now and then, but noone is going to look in your eyes, or even get close enough to smell it usually.

No senior rates come round the camp and double check the defences?
No officers come round and do random inspections?

They said they always smoked late at night, on rooftops (where most of their shifts took place), so the chances of anyone noticing were next to nil.

What rooftop though?
High rise flats? Barracks tops? Towers?
There are many "roof tops" in the world..
The chances of being spotted with white smoke coming off from your "roof top" would be quiet good I'd say.

I am not sure if they are doing drug testing on the soldiers now deployed, but back then, they had one when they got into Saudi and one when they left, but none in the middle....so there is no way to get cought. Hope this clarifies a little.

No it doesnt clarify, in the british army atleast they have one before and I believe sometimes during if there is big enough drug problems inside the regiments.

My other note is this, since army regs say you must police ammo and casings and hand them in....you dont think someone would ask "Hey where did those 5 rounds go?"

Originally posted by Brohaculo
Sorry I missed this part in your post and didn't answer it... Yes, they were in OP's (observation posts) on top of flat roofed buildings..usually only a few stories tall..not a guard building on the perimiter of a US camp/base.

Well then they wouldnt fire then would they, OP stands for OBSERVATION POINT, you dont sit and fire out of an OP..
Defeats the entire point of the OP or hidey, notice the wording...if they where going to start firing from an OP then wouldnt they call it a "fire base"??

if they where going to start firing from an OP then wouldnt they call it a "fire base"??

Well they're not supposed to be firing are they? Thats the point!

[edit on 14-12-2005 by ihatescifi]

[edit on 14-12-2005 by ihatescifi]

Originally posted by ihatescifi
Well they're not supposed to be firing are they? Thats the point!

[edit on 14-12-2005 by ihatescifi]

[edit on 14-12-2005 by ihatescifi]

That was the point I was trying to stress...thank you....