Moderate Motto!

The new Moderate Motto!

Give me liberty or give me...hey...what do you guys think?

Since there hasn't been a post here since October, I thought I would get things started rolling.

Come on moderates, defend your motto!

Carseller4, the reason there hasn't been a post in here is because in reality very few people know what a moderate is.

In reality, it is someone who holds beliefs with both Conservative and Liberal politcs, with Socialism and Capitalism, with New Right and New Left Realism.

The problem is, on a site like this everyone loves a label and to debate on the "moderate" agenda is impossible because everyone thinks everyone is something else. This is why a moderate Government, would probably be best for society but never happen.

odium, that was a great definition of a moderate. You are right, people are afraid of not fitting in and like to find a "label" that suits them. As a moderate I personally don't like being labeled.

There is no golden mean between capitalism and socialism until we invent a third system, for now the middle of the road is still dead animals and painted lines.

Speculative Fiction and Future Politics
www.changesurfer.com...


Middle-of-the-Road Policy Leads to Socialism
by Ludwig von Mises

That's not strictly true...

There are many "Middle of the Road" systems, they just never gain big publicity.

Originally posted by Odium
That's not strictly true...

There are many "Middle of the Road" systems, they just never gain big publicity.

...and that is a dead animal.



Build a third lane and they will come or it's just more roadkill.

...no because a moderate form of Government, is one where the people have direct involvement. It has been built, thousands of years ago and still happens now. In fact, for well over 100 years in Switzerland.

The problem is, it removes the elite and so will not happen in many Western Nation's.

Your talking to a US/Suisse national. Decentralization is still an experiment there, not a model. Read over Mises and the Austrian School of economics.

Goodbye Sovereign Switzerland -NewAmerican

Hard to imagine the Keynesian Nanny state embracing Libertarian philosophy with its private Federal Reserve. The way the pyramid scheming Fed has been juicing and manipulating the market system, the US is going in the direct opposite of liaise- faire. Tis more like becoming a Weimar Republic.

Better build another model, until you get an anarcho-capitalist as president







[edit on 15-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

What are you on?

Economics has nothing to do with the style of Government that is in place and the way in which people vote, stop using a diversion. Furthmore, if the people of the Nation voted to do so - why should it not happen?

Yet alone are you using NewAmerican...who link all of this to the "New World Order" and the "United Nation's"...clearly, they held a gun to the peoples head and forced them to do it...come on.

Originally posted by Odium
Economics has nothing to do with the style of Government that is in place and the way in which people vote, [snip]

Are you sure about this? Maybe this is true in completely free market societies. Thinking of Singapore and Hong Kong here. But economics is affected by the style of government in place. Watch the upcoming elections and how the Republicans and Democrats have different economic policies regarding global trade.

To sum it up... Republicans are in favor of taking the long route. Believing that straight free trade will eventually even out the global economy. Probably will... In about 40-50 years.

Democrats believe in passing trade restrictions on countries that don't meat certain standards... Opening up a new Federal branch to pass these restrictions. This will force countries, if they want to trade with us, to meet these standards. A short... But more expensive route. 8-10 years.

Which one do the moderates support? Just curious is all.

Democrats and Republicans are a Political Party and not a style of Government. You could have a Republican Government in charge through democracy or through force.

You can have a Capitalist Market in a Democracy, Dictatorship, etc. You can have a Socialist Market in those as well.

A moderate Government would support one that people voted on, trade restrictions, etc, are given up to the people involved to decide. The whole process is based around simple and support majorities deciding how things are run and not 5 guys in an office.

Originally posted by Odium
What are you on?

Economics has nothing to do with the style of Government that is in place and the way in which people vote, stop using a diversion.

I should ask what you are on, especially when using absolutes like "nothing" in any kind of statement. There's little merit in the inablity to tie things together and becoming oblivious to macro-views.

Economics determines politics, economics determines political outcomes, economics determines political policy, economics determines political parties, economics determines political leaders and economics determines the form of government used.

So did the US get to vote on fractional reserve lending and letting the Federal Reserve devalue money artificially by the expansion in the money supply to pay debts? NO, and the current structure doesn't support the ability to. There's no moderate government, and present day Americans have no experience in what one is, and the Suisse only dabled in it. So call it like it is, socialization. It's death by fiat as Switzerland is no longer free to choose its own currency. The SNB falls New York’s shadow now and Switzerland has forfeited its independence. So no, Switzerland is no longer a moderate model of government since it's being shanghai'ed by globalists.

Now go read Mises article on the Middle-of-the-Road Policy Leads to Socialism, and then you see there is no centrist systems that will hold for long.

Maybe you should of read New American's article too, and start doing your own due diligence. Book by its cover mentality smacks of egomania, not learning or an open mind.

Swiss Narrowly Vote to Drop Gold Standard - New York Times
Gold Wars -currentconcerns.ch
Has Switzerland Sold Out to Washington, London, & Wall Street? -escapeartist.com
Switzerland's gold: Ten key questions about Switzerland's gold -usagold.com



So how about some more mottos:

Welcome to global Schadenfreude, we crush moderates dead.

Poof be gone centrism: bilateral brains trying to actualize trilateral reasoning.



[edit on 16-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

What I am on?

A Politics and Law Degree from one of the top 5 Uni's in the United Kingdom, along with a job in a rather large legal firm as well as a space on the Bar when I finish my degree and a paid for shot at the next Election by a major party. All in all, my life is fantastic so whatever I am on, I think a lot of other people might want to start taking.

In fact, you don't even know the U.S. has a direct democracy in place on many levels and you're telling me to go read a book? The United State's actually does have access to the system, it was brought about as a way to control big business in Pacific States Telephone and Telegraph Company v. Oregon, 223 U.S. 118—in 1912. However, through the media...you've been denied the knowledge.

If you can vote in the United State's/Citizen of the United State's, you can attempt to get a proposed constitutional amendments in 49 of the State's...that in itself is a massive amount of power by the average person. Then it is dependent on state, but many use the Statute law initiative and Statute law referendum allowing you to directly control the law.

Instead of telling me to go rid and insinuate things, try and get hold of a book by Zimmerman, The Initiative: Citizen Law-Making from a Library. See what you in fact can do...good example is in California, on June 6, 1978 Proposition 13 (a ballot initiative) actually lowered the level of taxation on the population in California.

Originally posted by Odium

All in all, my life is fantastic so whatever I am on, I think a lot of other people might want to start taking.

Look Mumsy, it's an elitist boxed lunch with laws for walls!



There's no such animal as a moderate slave
That's where you and I differ in regards to status, experience and self-empowerment. I have been financially independent for many years. As for being intellectual property of any institution, that is far from my ideals of liberty or how a system should be run. So I will take note in light of your acknowledgement, pity your situation, hope you overcome it, and realize your views in this agenda are based on box logic, obedience and servitude. Maybe for now you should stick to direct experience in regards to said topic, as in your UK ethnocentric lifestyle isn't walking the talk of decentralization.

So yes, go read a book in the arena of economics and finance and start learning about the reality of "profits above people", how it usurps bureaucracy, and then learn how to get out of your monetary prison rather than ways of abetting and condoning it.

Behold mock GOP dissention surfaces,
watch the puppets dance to placate the masses!

Governing elitists, trans-nationals and conglomerates circumvent law and twist democracy for their purposes. So "we das people" are to legislate morality and rid the system of corruption, fraud, despotism and greed through citizen's law, meanwhile they're selling out our monetary system to big inc? Funny how it hasn't happened yet and is getting more dire by the day. So you want people to believe in magic or you just practicing to be a sheople herder? Let's not forget you have to add in those unlegislatable nasty variables like war, disease, famine, global warming, climate change and dwindling natural resourses too. Oh terrible, how poop always gets in the punch bowl.

I can see Ockham laughing his bloody bum off now, while commoners are choking on complexity, voter incompetence, more hidden taxes, more fines and surcharges, less effiencey and innovation, more outsourcing, and lower standards of living. Here's some news, your rigged psuedo-plebiscitary system has no winners in the lower and middle classes and it shall eventually collapse into an empire of dirt.

Meanwhile, US fearless leaders say feed the greed:
Illegal Aliens: America's New Slave Class


So when do these Kings fall on their swords especially in their own game to peasants with decreasing monetary power? The democracy facade reminds me of playing three card monte in the ghetto where the house always wins, so surely you jest in trying to serve me that load of fecal matter. Shame on you for trying to project on me and get me to side with your wage class brainwashing. Come on, who really wants to play in the box, when you can kick its doors in from the outside?

Preds still eat the little fish, democracy or not:

Half-Direct Democracy
We the people have been butchered for profits by predator elitists competing among themselves for money-power and hiding behind sophistries and vacuous arguments for over two thousand years. It is way past time to end it.

If you in Europe think that you are not affected by the corruption and butchery that happens here, then you have your heads in the sand. The destruction of the German welfare state, the Bolkestein Directive, and the Barroso Strategy are virtually screaming at you that global, stateless, right-wing, fascist corporatism's corruption and butchery is already happening to you.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul, they still lost
Let's not forget about the repercussions of Prop 13 in creating dumber kids and a larger slave labor pool, which still serves the interest of the elite and not the commoner. Proposition 39 takes it back to square one too, so much for that rot. First to worst -PBS

Look even that old crazy fiatmeister Greenspam says the US is getting too dumb. Ah nothing like a nation devolving into service-society apedom while sitting on the biggest pile of nukes in the world. Guess the in the box world best keep feeding that big, stupid, fiat crazed, all consuming ape or he may go boom boom on your head one day, cause he sure as hell isn't getting smarter through legislation or voting.



True freedom means an unimpeded existance
Slaves can only talk of freedom, and even when they think they are finally free it's only the courtyard of the plantation. So how would slaves know about being a true moderate meanwhile getting dumber as a whole when they still are in Plato's or perhaps it's now Orwell's cave with Machiavellian wolves shoving fear propaganda and corrupt legislation through the air hole? Hmmm?

I dislike the box, treachery, usury and slavery
They may call my types stinking bastard rogue elements or ask what are we on, but we will always be throwing wrenches into the Das Insane Broken Maschine, crapping on the pillars of the status quo and trying to emanicipate the thoughts of the drones. Until a new system is fabricated and a new paradigm takes hold of humanity's consciousness, the current machine will keep replicating usury based dogma to satisfy the wants of the elite, and it will keep brainwashing and feeding off the working class and poor. It's a fool's game to think the commoner can change the system if they play by the rules in a dystopia that's geared to keep them beggars.


Speaking of play, I think I will play some Floyd now in your honor (snicker).
another-brick-in-the-wall-1.mp3

I got another motto for ya, so where's yours?
Behold McWorld demagoguery were you can only pretend your a moderate living in a democratic republic, since there's no room to live it within the box.


Now go fly, fly, fly, Clarice. Fly, fly, fly
and watch out for the neo-Medici hawks.

Do comeback if you come up with a working model for anarcho-syndicalism or something along those lines










[edit on 17-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

Regan, you can post as much as you like but stop changing what I am saying.

Where do I say people involved in Government's are not corrupt? You are changing everything I am saying, to fit whatever agenda you desire to fulfill.

Maybe instead of insulting me and claiming I live in some form of box, you bother to better the world around you? Pay a little more attention? If people are all involved in the process it limits the amount of corruption, so instead of crying foul about it do something.

If you really think they are selling out, causing harm and other such things more people would care if they knew and the worse thing is I do not say this isn't happening. Most people no it is, but instead of bothering to do anything about it all we see are people whine. If you dislike the system so much, run for office - put your money where your mouth is.

Originally posted by Odium
Maybe instead of insulting me and claiming I live in some form of box, you bother to better the world around you? Pay a little more attention? If people are all involved in the process it limits the amount of corruption, so instead of crying foul about it do something.

I cry foul here cause it's a web forum and it's my free time to bone up on news and throw out some ideas and viewpoints.

Your are surmising I am not a diehard philanthropist, my money is not where my mouth is and have no grand plans of my own, so I guess we are both guilty of false assumptions

I'll let you run for office as that is in the box stuff to me and I have more ability to evoke change outside of it, than jumping in the boiler pit. Sorry bloke, but I consider politicans as easily manipulated expendable puppets destined to become obsolete.

Cheney used to be a good man in Wyoming, now look at the bum. So the old hackneyed cliche still goes in regards to political office in that power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

People want to limit corruption , then maybe they should treat it like a cancerous tumor and cut off it's blood supply rather than digging around in it becoming infected with corruption and spreading it further? ehh?

So how about a tax revolt: A Review of Aaron Russo’s America: From Freedom to Fascism

I thought we were supposed to be talking about a motto.

I say United We Stand....

Originally posted by Drake_Danielson
I thought we were supposed to be talking about a motto.

I say United We Stand....

How about... United We Stand...unless it offends someone?

Or "It's a balance thing... You wouldn't understand..."

Fence Monkeys, not just for seeing both pastures as not greener anymore...

Originally posted by Regenmacher
There is no golden mean between capitalism and socialism until we invent a third system, for now the middle of the road is still dead animals and painted lines.

The actual quote goes, "The only thing found in the middle of the road is yellow lines and dead skunks."



You folks ought to come on over to the Liberal forum and make a stand for what you believe in

I'm running for the door now and hope I don't get clobbered for being off topic and recruiting for another forum

Love and light my friends,

wupy