Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
So, if hell is my destiny for that, so be it, I go with a clear conscience, by my own choice then.

I daresay a 'clean conscience' is an instant disqualifier for 'hell.'

[edit on 12/29/2005 by queenannie38]

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
So, if hell is my destiny for that, so be it, I go with a clear conscience, by my own choice then.

I daresay a 'clean conscience' is an instant disqualifier for 'hell.'

[edit on 12/29/2005 by queenannie38]

By clear, I mean, I wouldn't complain, no argument from me, my conscience clear of any misgivings about my choice of belief. I do not truly feel that Jesus died for my sins, and can't see me shifting the payment due for my sins onto him, even if he himself were to ask me to. It is not what I feel is right. I also don't feel hell is real, nor do I believe in the devil, and have no concept of God, beyond a vague awe and wonder, and a respect for this universe and it's grandeur. My life led me to believe in spirits, the soul, life after death, and the power of prayer as all being real, yet the reality of a 'God' is not yet included in these very firm beliefs I hold.
Clean isn't a word I would use to describe my conscience, my past contains many things I would not do now, and of which I am not at all proud of. Such as lying, insulting, theft, and vanity.

I understand what you are saying--I have the same sort of humanity as you, if you know what I mean.

I have just always = clean with clear. But I think your post has triggered me toward understanding something I've long been uncertain about...

Thanks for elaborating!

If I do get condemned to eternal damnation, and am tortured in hell when I die, I hope that I get conditioned to it quickly. Maybe it just takes some getting used to, and after a while is not so bad.
I once had a thought that maybe hell is kind of like Vegas, a haven of vice and excessive partying, and heaven is like a vast library filled with books about deep theological concepts, being read by elderly, stoic, staid, students of religion, philosophy and science.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In the Christian faith, one must let Jesus take their sins upon himself, and pay for them, So, if hell is my destiny for that, so be it,by my own choice then.

That is why Jesus came, to die for sins and restore people to God.

I'm glad you understand that if you spend eternity in hell it will be because that is the choice you made. Alot don't understand that.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
If I do get condemned to eternal damnation, and am tortured in hell when I die, I hope that I get conditioned to it quickly. Maybe it just takes some getting used to, and after a while is not so bad.
I once had a thought that maybe hell is kind of like Vegas, a haven of vice and excessive partying,

Acouple of posts up you admitted that there are things you have done which you are not proud of. that is good, there is a conviction taking place in you. That's why a person turns to Christ for forgiveness to have this removed.

Hell is seperation from God. It may also involve complete aloneness for all eternity. It also involves reataining your sins for all eternity.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by plague
so please show me else where, were god says jesus is lord and we need to have faith in him to get to heaven......

I've already done this in other posts and so have other posters. Why go through it all again when you can easily go through the posts again and reread them and find the verses.

i have read the post before no where have you shown that god in any way shape or form said that jesus is lord and hes the key...
yes jesus may have said this and his followers but where did god say this...please show me...

Originally posted by plague
[i have read the post before no where have you shown that god in any way shape or form said that jesus is lord and hes the key...
yes jesus may have said this and his followers but where did god say this...please show me...

For those who commit idolatry with the Bible, whatever it says is the same to them as if god himself had said it.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
If I do get condemned to eternal damnation, and am tortured in hell when I die, I hope that I get conditioned to it quickly. Maybe it just takes some getting used to, and after a while is not so bad.

How profoundly you speak and do not realize your hopes are your life right now.

I once had a thought that maybe hell is kind of like Vegas, a haven of vice and excessive partying, and heaven is like a vast library filled with books about deep theological concepts, being read by elderly, stoic, staid, students of religion, philosophy and science.

Well, think it again. Think about it a lot, objectively.

I will tell you with complete literal honesty:
I've been both places--right here on Earth. I've been dead, but now I am alive. When I was dead, though--I truly didn't conceive that I was 'in the grave.' All the time I was in hell, I thought I was alive.

Vegas was fun, sure--but only for a time. Those kinds of fires burn hot and fast and only ashes are left when the party's over. But--there are lessons to be learned in every moment of every place we dwell--even if we are mistaking 'full' for 'empty.'

But heaven's library? *sigh* Peaceful silence away from the din; full of all manner of understanding and books on wisdom, philosophy, science--true ambrosia to the soul that seeks for the mind of God and for literal truth.

I am glad that I won't be made to leave this 'place,' even when my mortal body plays out. Even more so, I am so glad that I wasn't forgotten in the pit of the grave (aka 'hell')!

A Psalm and Song at the dedication of the house of David.

I will extol you, O LORD; for you have lifted me up,
and have not made my enemies to rejoice over me.

O LORD my God, I cried unto you, and you have healed me.
O LORD, you hast brought up my soul from the grave:
you have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Sing unto the LORD, all saints of his,
and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

For his anger endures but a moment; in his favour is life:
weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning.

And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved.

LORD, by your favor you have made my mountain to stand strong:
you did hide your face, and I was troubled.

I cried to you, O LORD; and unto the LORD I made supplication.
What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit?
Shall the dust praise you? shall it declare your truth?

Hear, O LORD, and have mercy upon me: LORD, be my helper.
You have turned for me my mourning into dancing:
you have put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;
To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent.

O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto you for ever.

~Psalms 30:1-12

I am totally serious in what I'm saying, and I am speaking from my heart. I hope that you are able to hear me, BG13.

[edit on 12/30/2005 by queenannie38]

I hear you, and I believe you. I have a great admiration, respect, and occasionally, a twinge of envy, for those who have such strong faith. I find your posts very enlightening, and also, very wise. Wisdom such as I rarely see. When I read your words, I see love. Great love. It is my goal to learn how better to love unconditionally, and I feel I am making progress.
Life is so amazing, and I have experienced highs and lows beyond my imagining. Bless you.

Originally posted by plague
i have read the post before no where have you shown that god in any way shape or form said that jesus is lord and hes the key...
yes jesus may have said this and his followers but where did god say this...please show me...

I actually meant posts on other threads concerning the christian topicsthat are discussed.

Psalm 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

and

Matthew 22:42
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

22:43
He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

22:44
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

22:45
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

22:46
And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions

and

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.



[edit on 31-12-2005 by dbrandt]

dbrandt....
you have once again failed to show where god said that jesus was his son and he is our only way to heaven....

you have showed me where others say it , but not god......
the closest you have came was an angel coming to joseph in a dream.....
there was more evidence at mount siani (sp) with moses then here....

" I have said ye are Gods, all of you are children of the most high.” Psalms, Ch. 82, Verse 6
I hope that Jews are not hellbound, as that would ironically mean that Rabbi Yehoshua Bar Joseph would join me there. Would it not?

Originally posted by plague
you have showed me where others say it , but not god......
the closest you have came was an angel coming to joseph in a dream.....
there was more evidence at mount siani (sp) with moses then here....

Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

1:10
And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

1:11
And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

and

Mark 9:2
And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

9:3
And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

9:4
And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

9:5
And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

9:6
For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

9:7
And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.




[edit on 31-12-2005 by dbrandt]

[edit on 31-12-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I hope that Jews are not hellbound, as that would ironically mean that Rabbi Yehoshua Bar Joseph would join me there. Would it not?

Romans 4:1
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The Jews had the gospel preached to them to.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I hope that Jews are not hellbound, as that would ironically mean that Rabbi Yehoshua Bar Joseph would join me there. Would it not?

Romans 4:1
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The Jews had the gospel preached to them to.

I think I get your point. So you agree? Jesus, being a Jewish Rabbi, and clearly not a Christian, would go to hell? Or is it only other Jews?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I think I get your point. So you agree? Jesus, being a Jewish Rabbi, and clearly not a Christian, would go to hell? Or is it only other Jews?

No, my point is the Jews had and have Christ preached to them also. Jesus is the only way of salvation.

Jesus is the Savior, He has no sin of His own.

Originally posted by dbrandt
No, my point is the Jews had and have Christ preached to them also. Jesus is the only way of salvation.

And thank the LORD, Himself, that He didn't leave it up to us--because we would still be lost--every last one of us. And since He is 'resting' now that the task is finished, then there is no need for any of us to be worrying about a thing--other than each other--as a family would.

For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That he would grant you,
according to the riches of his glory,
to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;
that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints
what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ,
which passeth knowledge,
that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Now unto him that is able to do
exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think,
according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages,
world without end.
Amen.
~Ephesians 3:14-21

What Paul prayed the world be granted is within our reach--because we are all in the family of Christ already:

our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, (who) being rooted and grounded in love, (and) able to comprehend
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge; that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think.

It is to the shame of some of us--those who profess to know God--that the world is not aware of the reconciliation of the cross.

2000 years is a long time, and the world is not the place of peace and love that it could be.

It is not because of God and it is certainly not to be blamed on those who are accused of rejecting Christ even after having a so-called fully informed opportunity.

No, It is because of us--those who place our trust in God through our brother Christ--that the world is still so far from God. How can we expect others to trust God as inspired by our witness if our witness is lacking full trust in God's promises--now fulfilled even if unseen? What's so wonderful and irresistible about a God who sends messengers to tell others that He loved them only enough to dangle a carrot in front of their blind and teary eyes--and it's no one's fault but their own if they don't take a bite?

It doesn't seem to matter to you that Jesus washed the disciple's feet--you wash no one's feet but your own. And scorn someone else for following the example of the One you claim as LORD by calling yourself after His name.

Preaching words without warmth--responding with flat uncompromising one-liners that seem dismissive and rote rather than confident, is much worse than not saying anything at all--and even in friendly silence one can still wash another's feet.

Unless you can provide a true demonstration of why you trust Christ, you have no hope of persuading another to do the same. To press upon others the need to turn to the LORD and become a 'christian' so that they will avoid hell as you, yourself, are banking on is like saying 'God is good only as long as you can be good, yourself.'

Jesus is the Savior, He has no sin of His own.

The Savior of what?

He has no sin, period. And neither do we. We are free to love one another (and to wash each other's feet) without having the oppressive darkness of the grave haunting our human lives and stealing our ever-after lives.

Don't try to put others in a prison they never understood as their own, in the first place. Don't try to undo what has already been done to justify your own self-undoing.