Passenger plane Barrol roll

I know, it sounds ridiculous, but yesterday I saw a passenger plane do a perfect barrol-roll. Now, I know my planes (I am a member of the Air Training Core) and I know that passenger planes wouldn't, or couldn't do that easily.

I was walking yesterday and heard a mighty roar, I looked up and saw a passenger plane, I wondered why it was making so much noise, as it wasn't exactly low to the ground. Then it started to bank to the left and done a barrol-roll! I watched it until it disapeared from view and then just stood there, mesmerized.

Does any one have any ideas what the bloody hell was going on? I have no ideas except that maybe it was a Government test or something, but then I live in a town, they wouldn't test would they?

[edit on 9-12-2005 by Zanzibar]

Where did this incident occur?

It is not unimagineable that someone rolled a passenger transport sized airplane. The most famous example is the time Boeing test pilot Alvin "Tex" Johnston rolled the Model 367-80 prototype of the 707 jet liner.

Aviation artist Mike Machat describes the incident as follows:

August 7th, 1955, started as a routine test flight in clear summer skies out over Washington's Olympic Peninsula and the Pacific Ocean. The sleek new Boeing jet, prototype for what would become the famous 707 series, was being flown by the project test pilot, legendary Alvin 'Tex' Johnston. A request from senior management had been passed to Tex to bring the Dash 80 down for a pass over Lake Washington, where the Gold Cup hydroplane races were being held, as a number of important airline industry personnel were in attendance.

At the conclusion of the test flight Tex began a descent to maneuver for the flight over the Gold Cup race course. While the Dash 80 headed toward the waiting crowd of some 250,000, Tex announced to his co-pilot, Jim Gannet, 'Jim, I'm going to roll this thing over the race course.' The Dash 80 came roaring across the lake at 500 feet and as he approached the race course Tex pulled the nose up and began a graceful barrel roll. Many of the crowd hadn't even recognized what they had just seen when Tex repositioned the airplane and came back from the opposite direction, and DID ANOTHER ROLL! Aviation buffs in the crowd were astonished but senior Boeing management was almost speechless. Many stories have circulated about what happened after the event but contrary to rumors, Tex was not fired for his 'public relations' show."

I have seen the film footage taken by spectators. Very impressive, but not particularly dangerous as this was a 1g maneuver and didn't put any undue stress on the airframe. For more information about Johnston's stunt and an actual photo taken by a passenger onboard the Dash 80, see the following:

www.historylink.org/output.cfm?file_id=390

www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/feature/barrel/barrel.htm

Another famous barrel roll of a large aircraft involved a RAF Vulcan bomber flown by Roly Falk on the first day of the farnborough Airshow in 1955.

ya sure is was a passenger plane?

BTW, Pilot Richard Nelson did a barrel role with the 707 back in the day, he was showing off the new plane.

It happened where I live, a fairly large town in the south of England. It was in the suburbs so at least one person must have seen apart from me. It was just so surprising!

EDIT- It was definately a passenger plane and that account is amazing.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by Zanzibar]

Many stories have circulated about what happened after the event but contrary to rumors, Tex was not fired for his 'public relations' show."

Maybe this is just another rumor i heard, but didn't he really get fired for a short time? I thought one of the companies said that they were so impressed with the barrel roll that they wouldn't buy any 707's unless they rehired the guy, so Boeing did......


In any case, the guy had some balls to do that with all of the Boeing senior brass there

No, I have seen interviews with Tex. The Boeing execs were pretty steamed, but had to admit it was a huge publicity stunt and he was not fired. He was however, told to never do it again

Are you sure it was a passenger plane and not an Air Force tanker. I have seen a KC-10 do a roll.

Definately a passenger plane, not a KC-10, 100% sure.

Anyway, is this not that strange then? A passenger plane, in broad daylight, doing a borrol roll? It just freaked me out.

Im pretty sure that the flight software in Airbus planes would not allow such a manuver to be undertaken. Unless it was in test and the FCS was disabled?

Maybe with a Boeing which does not have hard limits, but this is a much different era and a pilot would be out on his/her butt if such a stunt was performed.

The a/c that Tex rolled was teh Dash-80 and not a production model

If you think about, passenger planes have to be tested for YEARS before they get a clearance for active duty. This testing involves flying at all possible aircraft attitudes. I have seen footage of sharp dives, stalls at any height and high angles on the long axis. Its not unthinkable that some of the tests contain barrel rolls - for every aircraft.

If you think about, passenger planes have to be tested for YEARS before they get a clearance for active duty. This testing involves flying at all possible aircraft attitudes. I have seen footage of sharp dives, stalls at any height and high angles on the long axis. Its not unthinkable that some of the tests contain barrel rolls - for every aircraft.

If passnger plane did a barrel roll woulnt the wings rip off?

As to ripping off the wings, it would depend on the stress caused, based on weight, speed, etc. There was a famous experiment done with 747 in which they would bend their wings until stress snapped them and the wings could bend surprisingly far before snapping.

I would be more worried about getting a passenger plane into an unrecoverable stall more so then overstressing the airframe. Since they are lower wing aircraft they will not want to come back up on top of the wing to finish out the roll.

I suspect that what you saw was the plane do a sharp turn and decent followed by leveling off and it was an optical illusion that it ever inverted.

Hmm, I believe that it would be an extremely hard maneuver... But I don't know... maybe the laws of physics are againt it... I don't know...

No, the wings will not break off (chances are against it, anyway) and it violates no laws of physics. It does stress the airframe quite a bit, though.

Passenger planes are flying coke cans; they aren't designed for acrobats, and dare-deviling shortens the life, will cause working fasteners and stress cracks.

Still, can you blame a test pilot for wanting to goof off during a MTF every once in a while? Come on, cut him some slack! Sheesh, you guys sound like a pack of company boys!!

I originally posted a reply asking if the plane might be an Airbus doing flight testing, but it's wings snapped off and it crashed.

As far as the wings snapping off of a pasenger plane, it would take a hell of alot more than a barrel roll to do it. Remember the first rule of an airline. That which upsets the passengers is bad. I think hanging fom your seatbelt while a Chuck Yeager wannabe rolls the 767 you are riding in might constitute upsetting the passengers. I seem to recall that a few people were hurt and many more complained after a sudden loss of altitude earlier this year.

As far as the plane itself goes, they are pretty tough. I don't know about other manufacturers but Boeing tends to design it's airliners with military specifications in mind. This tends to make it very easy to gain FAA acceptance and doesn't hurt when the military shows an interest in the aircraft. I have been to the Boeing facility in Everett Washington several times and have seen how they test their airframes. It is amazing, the wing test is shown on the Discovery Channel when they run their series on the NTSB.

An interesting discussion, sparked by what is most likely a complete fairytale.

The original poster, Zanzibar, uses his alleged membership of the A.T.C. to give weight to his claim. However, he obviously failed to notice on his cap badge, his shoulder badge, his ID booklet, and the sign outside his Squadron's HQ that A.T.C. infact stands for "Air Training Corps" not "Air Training CORE".

Zanzibar has obviously used "core" not as a typo, but as someone typing a word they cannot spell, in the manner which it is spoken, No A.T.C. member ...or a member of any 'Corps' of any nature, would make such a stupid mistake....hence the entire validity of his claim is thrown into serious doubt.

Good thread though.

[edit on 10-12-2005 by edjsy]

[edit on 10-12-2005 by edjsy]

Originally posted by Zanzibar
I was walking yesterday and heard a mighty roar, I looked up and saw a passenger plane, I wondered why it was making so much noise, as it wasn't exactly low to the ground. Then it started to bank to the left and done a barrol-roll! I watched it until it disapeared from view and then just stood there, mesmerized.

Hmmm.

Theoretically, it should be possible for a commerical aeroplane to perform a barrel roll - its not that an extreme a manoeuvre .


However, why did the aircraft make more noise? Since virtually all commercial aircraft have underslung engines, performing a roll will place the wing between the engine and ground (or at 90 deg will reflect it into the atmosphere instead of towards the ground).

Also, such a manoeuvre would not take place at low altitude (within a distance where a minimal increase/decrease in noise levels could be discernible (sp?)).


Sorry, but I doubt you seen what you think you seen

I know what I saw, I have seen hundreds of planes do aerobatics, ive even done it. But I had never saw a pasenger plane do it.

The thing is, the plane wasn't at a low altitude, why it made so much noise I have no idea!

my dad was flyign to new mexico when his plane went almost verticle with the wing tips pointed to teh ground and sky, they were flying through tornados

so jets are tested to quite an extent and im guessing theyd design it too be able to make a barrel roll without blowing up