NEWS: Iran: Israel should be moved to Europe

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Why not just move the Palestinians to another muslim country?
They have many to choose from but israel is the only Jewish country there is.

The Jews were already kicked out of Persia, Mecca, Babylonia, etc... why should they be pushed out yet again?

Because the other muslim nations wont take them. In the beginning of all this mess, Israel told the Palestinians they could stay right where they were and everyone could be happy. But noooo, many of them wanted to move to and set up camps in other muslim nations. How did these other nations respond? By kicking out the Palestinians and getting mad at the Jews for "causing" these undesirable Palestinians refugees to try and squat on their land. Of course, Israel let the poor displaced Palestinians come back home, so the Palestinians tried to kill them in return for their hospitality.




On a personal note, God bless Israel. May the end come soon so She can find her way to the Lamb, who fulfills Her prophesies.


[edit on 9-12-2005 by cavscout]

International reactions:

• UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Thursday expressed shock that Iran's president questioned the extent of the Holocaust and suggested Israel be moved to Europe.
  
  Annan pointed to a UN General Assembly resolution last month that rejected "any denial of the Holocaust as an historical event, either in full or in part."
  
  He urged all UN members to "combat such denial and to educate their populations about the well established historical facts of the Holocaust, in which one third of the Jewish people were murdered along with countless members of other minorities."
  
  
• The United States also denounced the remarks as "appalling and reprehensible."
  
  "They certainly don't inspire hope among any of us in the international community that the government of Iran is prepared to engage as a responsible member of that community, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said. He added that Ahmadinejad's comments appear "to be a consistent pattern of rhetoric that is both hostile and out of touch with values that the rest of us in the international community live by."
  
  
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, "It just further underscores our concerns about the regime in Iran and it's all the more reason why it's so important that the regime not have the ability to develop nuclear weapons."
  
  
• German Chancellor Angela Merkel called the latest comments "totally unacceptable" and
  
  
• British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said "I condemn them unreservedly. They have no place in civilised political debate."
  
  
• French President Jacques Chirac: "We will do everything to make it clear that Israel's right to existence is in no way endangered. I am firmly convinced that a majority in the international community has a similar opinion on this issue,"

Originally posted by Ambient Sound

It's called religion and is responsible or has been used to justify about 90% of the hate and destruction humans have done to each other on this planet.

So only %10 of the hate and destruction human's create is over money ? I dont know fantasy land your in buddy.


[edit on 9-12-2005 by helium3]

Originally posted by helium3

Originally posted by Ambient Sound

It's called religion and is responsible or has been used to justify about 90% of the hate and destruction humans have done to each other on this planet.

So only %10 of the hate and destruction human's create is over money ? I dont know fantasy land your in buddy.

If you will actually read what I wrote, money or land grabbing may be the underlying reason, but religion is usually used to justify it. That is the wonderful thing about religion, isn't it? It can be twisted to whatever evil purpose, bigotry, or hate happens to be in vogue at the moment. If everyone in Israel suddenly converted to Islam, do you think there would be as much of a problem?

So why all this controversy over the "holy" land then, if it's not about religion? If Israel had been established somewhere else, say in South America, would Muslims still hate Jews, and vice-versa? I think not. No, all this current trouble is over a dusty few square miles of useless turf that 3 religions claim as "holy". Like I said, God/Allah/Jeeeezus must be very proud.

If you ask me, one of the best things that could happen to this planet is for Jerusalem to fall into the sea, [edit added] slowly, so everyone would have a chance to leave. I don't want anyone to die, but I'd like the object of contention to be put beyond the reach of deluded fools and people who base their hate upon a place. [edit end]

[edit on 9-12-2005 by Ambient Sound]

Originally posted by helium3
If you ask me, one of the best things that could happen to this planet is for Jerusalem to fall into the sea,

That i agree with 100% cause i believe all religions are fake and only around to control the masses. But as i cannot see Jerusalem to falling into the sea anytime soon. I'd say to keep the peace put Israel in Europe. After all Germany killed 6 million jews why not let them live there ? why should repercussions fall on the Palestinians ?





[edit on 9-12-2005 by helium3]

I think Isreal should be Moved to the USA.

People there just ADORE Isreal and always protect their Actions - I think belong togather.

That is the easiest way to avoid all "Terrorist" attacks.

Germany does not equal Europe, so please do not try to make us all look quilty of holocaust and why should current german govermnent pay for something their granfathers did and got punished for doing.

During WW2 all sides did warcrimes and inhumane things: Japanese massacared chinese, Russians tortured and destroyed POWs and theír own citizens, USA bombed civillian cities with no military value into ruins killing hundreds of thousands of ppl... So none of us is clean if you look at what our ancestors did, None of us!

So Israel exists, maybe it was a mistake to create it, but a deal is a deal, and we have to live with it...

Originally posted by Souljah
I think Isreal should be Moved to the USA.

Of course you do. In fact, you didn’t even have to say it; everyone already knew what you were going to say. Actually, you have reached the mystical state the no-need-to-post-poster. Everyone knows what you are going to say. If it wouldn’t be considered a one liner, I would suggest you just typing the word "me" in every one of your posts, and everyone would know you were there. It would save you some time. As a matter of fact, you could just copy and paste the phrase "America sucks, Bush sucks, Israel Sucks" in place of all your posts and have the same effect, saving you and us time.

People there just ADORE Isreal and always protect their Actions - I think belong togather.

Hey, we just pick our friends wisely. Sucks having all the strong kids leading the class, doesn’t it?

Originally posted by cavscout
Hey, we just pick our friends wisely. Sucks having all the strong kids leading the class, doesn’t it?

You mean like Saudi Arabia - the Terrorist State Sponsor and Capital of Shaia Law, which the USA "fought so Valiantly" in Afganistan?

"The US and Israel have demanded further that Palestinians not only recognize Israel's rights as a state in the international system, but that they also recognize Israel's abstract "right to exist," a concept that has no place in international law or diplomacy, and a right claimed by no one. In effect, the US and Israel are demanding that Palestinians not only recognize Israel in the normal fashion of interstate relations, but also formally accept the legitimacy of their expulsion from their own land. They cannot be expected to accept that, just as Mexico does not grant the US the "right to exist" on half of Mexico's territory, gained by conquest."

THERE CAN NOT BE PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE!
AND WHERE NEVER WILL BE!

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by cavscout
Hey, we just pick our friends wisely. Sucks having all the strong kids leading the class, doesn’t it?

You mean like Saudi Arabia - the Terrorist State Sponsor and Capital of Shaia Law, which the USA "fought so Valiantly" in Afganistan?

And what did that have to do with anything? America picks her friends among the strong is what I meant. As such, it is no wonder we strive to stay close with Israel. In a phrase, "our friends can beat up your friends."

As far as Saudi goes, we also use nations and pretend to be friends. Like Afghanistan before we whooped them, like Panama before we whooped them, like Iraq before we whooped them. The difference between these nations (Saudi included) and our friends like Israel is that we would never turn our backs on real friends, they are just too strong.

Of course, there is third class of nation, the "never really were friends to begin with" states, like Iran. When we go into a "former friend" nation, we pretend to rebuild it so Americans can make money. When we go into a "never really were friends to begin with" nation (like Iran, N. Korea, Vietnam) we simply destroy. The world (most Americans included) makes the mistake of confusing kindness for weakness. No nation in a long time has had the intestinal fortitude to take us head on, so we have been sharpening our spear on small "peace keeping missions." Do not think we would be so nice to Iran or N. Korea (or China) if push came to shove. We are still the old America at heart, we still love a good fight, and we haven’t had one in a long time.

Not endorsing any of this, BTW, just tellin ya how it is. Go sit in the corner and think about it.

THERE CAN NOT BE PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE!
AND WHERE NEVER WILL BE!

And take some Prozac while you are there, huh?

Originally posted by Riwka
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is showing himself to be fundamentally contradicting the norms of international behaviour and decency.

Quite true, yet I find the fact that you're pointing it out quite amusing. You can see the faults in every other countries actions apart from your own. You highlight Iran's "contradicting the norms of international behaviour and decency" yet are quite content to defend Israel's parallel behaviour. It really does your credibility harm.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
IMHO thats not a bad idea if they proposed that during the creation of Israel. Infact part of Germany should have been the New Israel since it came to being in part because of WW2 and the Holocaust.

The germans would've revolted and exterminated them. Similar to what the arabs did, they revolted and went to war. Unfortunately for the arabs, they lost. IOW, this claim of ahmenidjad is that of a sore looser.

The reason why there is no jewish state in europe or america ( outside of the british commitment to a jewish state in israel and the fact that isreal is where the jews in general wanted their state to be) is that the europeans and americans didn't want the jews flocking to their land. So they gave them some other place that they already ran.

xmotex
How about just find a solution that lets the Palestinians and the Jews keep their homes,

Why? The yehudis won that land by right of conquest, conquest from wars that the arabs started. If the palestinians didn't want to be occupied, they shouldn't've went to war, and then lost.

helium3
look at how one ethnic group can be kick out of so many countrys. Dont tell me so many countrys all can be wrong

yeah, sure, because the jews are hated by racist pigs, that must mean that the jews are disgusting and evil and its good to try to kill and deport all of them.

souljah
People there just ADORE Isreal and always protect their Actions - I think belong togather.

Put then the US wouldn't have a geo-strategic ally in the region nor a jumping off point for a wider war.
Israel is in the middle east because the peopel that ran the world wanted to put it there. The palestinians are a completely powerless people, by their own doing, and thus they are ignored on the global scene. Israel isn't going to get moved to the US because there isn't anyone on the planet that can actually force it to move there.

That is the easiest way to avoid all "Terrorist" attacks.

Who cares about easiest? The easiest way to avoid terror attacks in that region, no quotes required when you put a bomb on a civillian bus, is to wipe out the west bank completely. The yehudis have shown some pretty powerful restraint, if they wanted to they could round up every last palestinian, hell they're already in camps, and dump them all in the ocean. Lets not talk about whats 'easiest' here, thats not going to lead anywhere.

but also formally accept the legitimacy of their expulsion from their own land.

They already accepted it in not having a state of war between them and israel. If someone kicks you out of your home, you fight them. The palestinians didn't do that for a while, and then when the other arabs were ready for a war, they finally did. Then they lost that war, and stopped fighting. Even now they started and then ended a small scale 'uprising'. They've already accepted the loss of their territory and national sovereignty. They lost the war and stopped fighting. Its only a minority of militants that 'fight' israel now, and they don't even do that in an effective way.
Once that wall is completed even they will have trouble 'fighting' the israelis, and then they'll have nothing to do expect hope that they israelis give them more independence.

subz
You highlight Iran's "contradicting the norms of international behaviour and decency" yet are quite content to defend Israel's parallel behaviour

I know this was in response to rikwa, but lets face it, iran is the one far out of line here. The israelis fought, and won, wars that were thrown at them, and as part of that occupied some of the enemies territory. Over the decaces, they've given large swaths of it back. And similarly over the decades they've done some nasty things to the people that they defeated and who targeted the israeli citizens. So what? They have nukes and haven't threatend to "Wipe Riyad off the map" or called for the palestinains to be moved to the other side of the world. Hell, they could wipe saudi arabia out or deport en mass the palestinians, but they don't. What would Amhedinajad do if he had a modern army, airforce, nukes, and a territory where jewish insurgents were under his occupation???

Ahmadinejad's words were an example of a consensus in some parts of the Arab world / the Muslim village that Jews do not have the right to establish a Jewish, democratic state in their ancestral homeland.


Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world - banner in Iran (Photo: AP)

• Russia also condemned Ahmadinejad's comments on Friday:
  
  "It is difficult to comment on such unacceptable remarks,"
  the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement. "There are well-known historical facts concerning World War Two, including the Holocaust. These facts cannot be revised and this should be understood by everyone."
  

Originally posted by Nygdan
I know this was in response to rikwa, but lets face it, iran is the one far out of line here. The israelis fought, and won, wars that were thrown at them, and as part of that occupied some of the enemies territory.

War? Thats how the land fell out of Jewish hands in the first place. Its also how the land became in the hands of Islam. They too fought wars and conquered that land 'fair and square'. Remember Saladin? He put Jerusalem into the hands of Islam by winning a war. Why isn't that recognized as a legitimate claim to the place yet Israel's war gains are? Its yet another hypocrisy simply because it involves painting Jews in anything less than a favourable light.

Possession is nine tenths, and the land was Palestinian before it was Israeli. Trying to justify it by way of war, or by vote, does not change that fact.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Over the decaces, they've given large swaths of it back. And similarly over the decades they've done some nasty things to the people that they defeated and who targeted the israeli citizens. So what? They have nukes and haven't threatend to "Wipe Riyad off the map" or called for the palestinains to be moved to the other side of the world. Hell, they could wipe saudi arabia out or deport en mass the palestinians, but they don't. What would Amhedinajad do if he had a modern army, airforce, nukes, and a territory where jewish insurgents were under his occupation???

Again, that is quite true. The likes of Ahmadinejad would most likely invade Israel if they had an army capable of it. On this there is no question and no conjecture from me. However, that does not change the fact that Israel treats Palestinians in a manner that is not internationally accepted, which was what Riwka was portraying of Ahmadinejad. She freely quotes Koffi Annan's reaction to this latest outburst from the Iranian President, yet when faced with quotes casting an unfavourable pall over Israel from the very same man she argues the toss.

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Why not just move the Palestinians to another muslim country?
They have many to choose from but israel is the only Jewish country there is.

The Jews were already kicked out of Persia, Mecca, Babylonia, etc... why should they be pushed out yet again?

Because the other muslim nations wont take them.

I think you'll find that there are roughly 6 MILLION (quite a lot isnt it?) Palestinian refugees in Arab countries in the Middle East.

In the beginning of all this mess, Israel told the Palestinians they could stay right where they were and everyone could be happy.

The Israeli terrorists gangs/army went into Arab towns and villages killing children by cracking their skulls with sticks, shooting people, raping women and, their favourite party trick, blowing up houses with the people still inside. This was done in a sweeping, systematic fashion right across the country. Over 50 Arab villages were completely bulldozed off the map. Gone. Completely, as if they had never existed. Call me cynical but I dont really see these as the actions of a friendly host willing to coexist. We have a term for systematic killing and displacement by force and intimidation - ethnic cleansing.

These events are not heresay or rumour, they are documented FACT acknowledged by the UN among others hence the various UN resolutions condemning Israeli actions.

But noooo, many of them wanted to move to and set up camps in other muslim nations.

Yes, of course, they wanted to leave the land where they had lived their whole lives and where their ancestors had lived for the past 1000 years or so. Nothing to do with the threat of being killed if they stayed of course. Who wouldnt want to swop their settled life in a proper town, with proper infrastructure and food and water for a life in a tented camp, where there is no sanitation, no food, no water, no education, no employment, no hope?? Damn, it sounds so good I think I'll go and join them!!

How did these other nations respond? By kicking out the Palestinians and getting mad at the Jews for "causing" these undesirable Palestinians refugees to try and squat on their land.

As I pointed out above the Palestinians refugees number around 6 million making them the largest refugee population in the world.

Of course, Israel let the poor displaced Palestinians come back home, so the Palestinians tried to kill them in return for their hospitality.

I think you'll find that the Israeli government is quite clear on its position regarding the right of return for the Palestinian refugees. It has never and will never allow it. In fact its a fundamental part of the Israeli governments acceptance of the Road Map. Not very well informed are you?

I think the Palestinians tried to kill the Israeli's because the Israeli's killed them first. Call me Sherlock Holmes but this would tend to be the obvious conclusion.

Check it out, it works like this: You come along and kill my family, my friends and everyone else I ever cared about. I become bitter and twisted and lose all interest in living a normal life. In fact, the only thing I want now is to kill you, even if it means I die in the process - in fact this wouldnt matter at all since I've nothing left to live for anyway. But I cant get to you because you're too protected, or too far away. So what do I do? I kill YOUR family and YOUR friends so you know how it feels. Why should I be the only one to suffer?

Its called RETRIBUTION. You reap what you sow.

On a personal note, God bless Israel. May the end come soon so She can find her way to the Lamb, who fulfills Her prophesies.


[edit on 9-12-2005 by cavscout]

the end?? what prophecies are these?? do you really think God would approve of a country that used ethnic cleansing as a fundamental method of its own creation?? Yes you probably do dont you??

Edit: To remove numerous insults.

You should read the following and concentrate on #2.

www.abovetopsecret.com...




[edit on 9-12-2005 by intrepid]

Originally posted by subz
Possession is nine tenths, and the land was Palestinian before it was Israeli. Trying to justify it by way of war, or by vote, does not change that fact.

As such, the nation of Israel is where, exactly?
Who gave Israel the land that they call a nation?
If what you say is truth, then there is no need for Israel to move to Europe being that Israel currently possesses the land that it resides upon, correct?




seekerof

convert the whole place to a war only zone. All Muslims and Jews move out. Everyone who's left kicks the- out of each other till theres no one left. Muslims and Jews move back in and share the whole region.

Isn't it just the leaders at the end of the day who have caused all the problems? Didn't the Jews Muslims and Christians all get along over there before?

[edit on 10-12-2005 by asala]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Who gave Israel the land that they call a nation?

The UN did, but it wasn't theres to give away. Let's say Hawaii was declared a UN mandate state tomorrow. Would that grease the wheels of acceptance for you?

Originally posted by Seekerof
If what you say is truth, then there is no need for Israel to move to Europe being that Israel currently possesses the land that it resides upon, correct?

Did I say otherwise? Did I say Ahmadinejad was correct? Israel exists and as such there is no easy way of changing that. Should I say otherwise, you can copy and paste that response to fit more...appropriately.

Originally posted by Magsman
I think you'll find that there are roughly 6 MILLION (quite a lot isnt it?) Palestinian refugees in Arab countries in the Middle East.

That is quite a lot considering that the entire Arab population in Palestine was only 1.2 million in 1947 and there are still millions living in Gaza and the West Bank.

I think some people may just be claiming to be Palestinians.

Originally posted by subz

The UN did, but it wasn't theres to give away.

Britain gave the UN the power when Britain turned over its madate over Palistine to the UN.

Britain finally made good its 1917 Balfour Declaration promise and granted independence to Palestine, letting the United Nations divide it up between Arabs and Jews.
www....[hate-site-nolink]/whitehistory/hwr65.htm

In 1947 Britain gave up and turned the question of Palestine over to the newly-created United Nations. In November 1947 the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 181, partitioning Palestine into two states, one Jewish (Israel), one Arab (Palestine) with an international enclave in the Jerusalem area, including Bethlehem.
source

Seems like the UN had every right to do with the land as they wanted once Britain gave it.