Full Video: Explosions Before Both WTC Collapses and before WTC7 Collapse - You Will Believe

As he was posting multiple quotes in one post it's an easy mistake to make. You can only use the quote button on the first quote - others have to be pasted in and credited manually.
It's pretty obvious that it's an honest mistake and saying Leftbehind is 'retarded' and 'should kill himself' isn't really very nice I think.
If you represent the side of 'good' then it is indeed worrying what the evil people are up to.

Oops, well saying LeftBehind was this and that was an honest mistake, really. I was just confusing what he said with what my budgerigar told me the minute before, my bad.

Nearly 20 pages into a very interesting discussion, to see people questioning each other's ethnicities and trading barbs the likes of which belong in grade school is very disturbing.

Let's try to keep the discussion serious and not let it dissolve into silliness by resorting to such tactics.

edit: Has been taken care of.

"These are not the droids you're looking for, move along"

As far as the thread goes, I haven't made up my mind either way as of yet. Interesting video though, even though there are a few errors as some have pointed out.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by Griff]

Originally posted by Zamboni
I'm curious about the Neocon shills' (AGentSmith & HowieRoark)'s ethnicity and religious backgrounds ?

I am so dissapointed.

After all this time and effort spent trying to debunk the demolition theory and no one calls me a neocon shill???

I wanna be considered a government agent too!!





Why would I ask you ? Based on your location I knew you worship Satan in Hell.

FYI I apologized to Lumos and it was reciprocated.

Back on topic.

It is unfortunate that we can no longer see 911eyewitness (Rick Speigel)'s posts. However it's offensive nature and his constant linking to other sites and his product made it necessary.

For those who saw his posts, I think he showed his true colors (if it was indeed Rick) by saying that he wasn't qualified to speak about the physics of the collapses. If I were to "star" in a video making scientific claims, for integrity's sake I would make sure that the science was correct. He was driven enough to make the video, but uninterested in researching what it says. To me, that points to Rick being interested in one thing, the payoff.

Why else would he claim revalations only available in his next video for $19.95?

Out of all the bunkum claims made in his video, are any of them correct?

The smoke from the base was shown to be cars and debris burning.

His cannonball illustration was misleading at best.

The seismic energy to KE link is nonexistent.

And what exactly do the flashes of sunlight off helicopters prove?

IMHO the sounds his video highlights, sounds more like wind hitting the camera edited to sound louder.

Is it really believable that one guy recorded those sounds out of the hundreds of cameras and microphones on the scene at that point?

Originally posted by LeftBehind
FYI I apologized to Lumos and it was reciprocated.

Back on topic.

It is unfortunate that we can no longer see 911eyewitness (Rick Speigel)'s posts. However it's offensive nature and his constant linking to other sites and his product made it necessary.

For those who saw his posts, I think he showed his true colors (if it was indeed Rick) by saying that he wasn't qualified to speak about the physics of the collapses. If I were to "star" in a video making scientific claims, for integrity's sake I would make sure that the science was correct. He was driven enough to make the video, but uninterested in researching what it says. To me, that points to Rick being interested in one thing, the payoff.

Why else would he claim revalations only available in his next video for $19.95?

Out of all the bunkum claims made in his video, are any of them correct?

The smoke from the base was shown to be cars and debris burning.

His cannonball illustration was misleading at best.

The seismic energy to KE link is nonexistent.

And what exactly do the flashes of sunlight off helicopters prove?

IMHO the sounds his video highlights, sounds more like wind hitting the camera edited to sound louder.

Is it really believable that one guy recorded those sounds out of the hundreds of cameras and microphones on the scene at that point?

It seemed like he was instantly axed. Why not leave his post and just edit out the links? Or is that the usual treatment for genuine eyewitnesses who have genuine evidence that can be used in court?

I thought he was the cameraman. Does that mean he has to do everything in a project? Let me try to help you understand the physics.

Cars burning...
That may fool someone who hasn't seen the video. But if you heard 9 explosions and see 9 corresponding dust clouds going close to the top of the WTC7 at 600 feet, the ol' car burning is a joke.

I saw how Agent Smith tried to misrepresent the cannonball video for the benefit of those who haven't seen it. He said it tried to show the origin of the debris but it didn't. The projectile motion experiment was showing that the ARC of the projectile is NON-HORIZONTAL.

Agent Smith also avoided the demolition squibs. Hmmm. and he avoided the frames that show the top debris hitting close to the side of the tower where it logically would. Not 600 feet away in the top of the Winter Garden.

The freeze frame used to analyze the ARC of the projectile indicates upward motion and would have to be adjusted upward to compensate for the downward movement over time of the debris cloud in order to determine the origin of the debris.

Seismic energy to KE link nonexistent...
Ever heard of the Richter magnitude seismic scale? How many grades were you 'left behind' anyway?

If you had actually checked you would have also found that seismic energy can be represented in tons of TNT explosive.

The fact that two identical towers recorded 100% different seismic energies could only be ignored by FEMA and NIST because they are part of the coverup team. Just like WTC7, that non-existant tower in the 9/11 Ommission novel that hit the best seller list.

Sunlight reflecting off helicopter...
Ha ha, yeh deep from within the dark smoke clouds seconds before the south tower made history as the first steel frame structure to turn into dust at the speed of gravity. The Tripod 2 FEMA cleanup crew forgot about Hoboken?

Bombs are just wind noise...
Amazing how the wind noise didn't affect the radio report.
The bomb signatures have already been given the CSI stamp of authenticity on other boards using spectrograph analysis of underground explosions. The signatures match and anyone who listens to the DVD can tell immediately that the wind noise claim is just lame disinfo.

What about Newton's three laws of motion proving that the south tower should have fallen into the street once it started to lean at such a sharp angle?

How about the WTC7 gravity drop? Care to debunk a university phsyics website experiment?

Even if WTC7 didn't achieve complete freefall in a vacuum anything even close to the speed of gravity can only be achieved with controlled demolition just like Silverstein blurted out after he had the insurance money in the bank.

The controlled demolition at the WTC is such a no-brainer you disinfo guys are out of business. Time to get reprogrammed for another mission.

Originally posted by Buffy
I saw how Agent Smith tried to misrepresent the cannonball video for the benefit of those who haven't seen it. He said it tried to show the origin of the debris but it didn't. The projectile motion experiment was showing that the ARC of the projectile is NON-HORIZONTAL.

Agent Smith also avoided the demolition squibs. Hmmm. and he avoided the frames that show the top debris hitting close to the side of the tower where it logically would. Not 600 feet away in the top of the Winter Garden.

I think you'll find the origin of the debris is relevant to the arc, obviously
As I showed he overlayed the up and out trajectory onto the debris, forgetting to take into the account the fact the curve was caused by the building falling pulling the debris cloud down behind it. I made it as simple and as clear as possible, you obviously are having your judegement hampered by your desire to see 'evidence' , because since I've even seen children remark on it.
When you overlay the images of the collapse from beginning to end, the true trajectories become startingly clear, guess what - no 'up and out' trajectories like he tries to prove.

[edit on 16-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by Buffy
I thought he was the cameraman. Does that mean he has to do everything in a project? Let me try to help you understand the physics.

If he's just the cameraman then why do they let him make comments about the collapse being impossible? He is, in his own words, incompetent to make such a statement.

Cars burning...
That may fool someone who hasn't seen the video. But if you heard 9 explosions and see 9 corresponding dust clouds going close to the top of the WTC7 at 600 feet, the ol' car burning is a joke.

Not really sure where your going with that. In the video he talks about the smoke at the base of the towers. Someone has posted in this thread the video showing it was a burning car. So yeah, if you haven't seen the video of the burning car, it would be pretty easy to fool you.

Seismic energy to KE link nonexistent...
Ever heard of the Richter magnitude seismic scale? How many grades were you 'left behind' anyway?

If you had actually checked you would have also found that seismic energy can be represented in tons of TNT explosive.

The fact that two identical towers recorded 100% different seismic energies could only be ignored by FEMA and NIST because they are part of the coverup team.

While you can represent seismic energy that way, why don't you show us the direct correlation to KE that you claim. Being able to represent seismic energy in TNT does not mean you can just assign that as KE. There is no direct link, and all the petty insults in the world won't make it true.

Why would you expect them both to have the same seismic signature? The collapses started on different floors. Wouldn't having the same seismic signature be indicative of bombs?

Sunlight reflecting off helicopter...
Ha ha, yeh deep from within the dark smoke clouds seconds before the south tower made history as the first steel frame structure to turn into dust at the speed of gravity. The Tripod 2 FEMA cleanup crew forgot about Hoboken?

Speed of gravity? Perhaps you haven't seen this picture.

Bombs are just wind noise...
Amazing how the wind noise didn't affect the radio report.
The bomb signatures have already been given the CSI stamp of authenticity on other boards using spectrograph analysis of underground explosions. The signatures match and anyone who listens to the DVD can tell immediately that the wind noise claim is just lame disinfo.

Links? Or should we just take your word for it?

Originally posted by Buffy
The bomb signatures have already been given the CSI stamp of authenticity on other boards

The "CSI stamp of authenticity?"



CSI is authentic?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
The "CSI stamp of authenticity?"

CSI is authentic?

Christ I missed that one! What a corker.. Personally, I'm waiting to hear what the 'Big Bad' Spike has to say.. I might ask my cat actually, she's called Willow..

Originally posted by LeftBehind

Bombs are just wind noise...
Amazing how the wind noise didn't affect the radio report.
The bomb signatures have already been given the CSI stamp of authenticity on other boards using spectrograph analysis of underground explosions. The signatures match and anyone who listens to the DVD can tell immediately that the wind noise claim is just lame disinfo.

Links? Or should we just take your word for it?

In case you missed 9/11 Eyewitness, they show pretty conclusively that those explosions couldn't have been wind on the mic or anything like that, unless such activities just happened to coincide with seismic events by some super-coincidence.

Originally posted by LeftBehind
While you can represent seismic energy that way, why don't you show us the direct correlation to KE that you claim. Being able to represent seismic energy in TNT does not mean you can just assign that as KE. There is no direct link, and all the petty insults in the world won't make it true.

There are direct connections between matter and energy (E=mc², anyone?), let alone two different kinds of energy. It's just a matter of figuring out how it was calculated. I guess you can doubt them all you want, but I would say that it could certainly be done with someone with the right knowledge.

Originally posted by bsbray11
There are direct connections between matter and energy (E=mc², anyone?), let alone two different kinds of energy. It's just a matter of figuring out how it was calculated. I guess you can doubt them all you want, but I would say that it could certainly be done with someone with the right knowledge.

While it is true there is some link between the two, that does not mean you can take the value for seismic energy and simply plug it in anywhere. I'm sure it can be figured out, but that's not the same as what they do in the video. They just take the seismic figure and tell us that it equals the KE of the caps without showing why that makes any sense.


But hey, if you really want to accept those figures then we can say that each cap hit with the energy of roughly 2.5 tons of TNT. More than enough energy to bring the whole thing crashing down.

Also we can say that since each figure is different, that accounts for the different height of the floors above the crashes, and points to a gravity driven collapse.

If they were both the same figure it would point to the same explosives being used in both buildings.

For some reason 911eyewitness thinks the opposite.

[edit on 17-1-2006 by LeftBehind]

Originally posted by LeftBehind
While it is true there is some link between the two, that does not mean you can take the value for seismic energy and simply plug it in anywhere. I'm sure it can be figured out, but that's not the same as what they do in the video. They just take the seismic figure and tell us that it equals the KE of the caps without showing why that makes any sense.

I realize this, and it would've certainly helped if they showed their figures.

But hey, if you really want to accept those figures then we can say that each cap hit with the energy of roughly 2.5 tons of TNT. More than enough energy to bring the whole thing crashing down.

This is conjecture (the part about it being "more than enough," I mean).

The impulse would also not be equivalent to the detonation of 2.5 tons of TNT on the given floor, which is the same problem of correlation that you have with the seismic energy/KE.

The impulse would've taken out a floor, sure, but beyond that it, the energy behind the falling mass would have been decreasing rapidly, especially since the mass itself was deteriorating rapidly. And yet there was no change in collapse velocity. Less weight driving the collapse, less momentum, and yet same rate of fall. Haven't seen anyone tackle that one, either.

And nor did either building ever lopside, which is so statistically improbable that it's insane. Ask any demolition engineer and they'll tell you that the unbalanced resistance of a single column could lopside a whole building in a few seconds. This relates to chaos theory, where an event becomes more and more influential upon the system as times goes on, and the WTC system would certainly be full of variables that would lend to chaos during collapse.

An easy way to overcome this, however, would be to simply blow up each floor, or certain key floors, to allow the building to come down directly upon itself with absolutely no lopsided and nearlyperfect symmetry, as was seen.

So with explosives, the odds of symmetry could easily 1:1 since the system would be controlled, whereas chaos theory would no doubt hold a much, much slimmer chance for such symmetry by natural forces alone. Let alone twice. Three times... on the same day?

Also we can say that since each figure is different, that accounts for the different height of the floors above the crashes, and points to a gravity driven collapse.

If they were both the same figure it would point to the same explosives being used in both buildings.

The caps were different sizes for everyone, LeftBehind, not just pancake theorists.

[edit on 17-1-2006 by bsbray11]

FEMA quoted Lamont-Doherty's seismic measurements in its report.
Isn't that good enough for you?
2.3 for the north tower and 2.1 for the south tower.

The interesting thing is that since the Richter magnitude scale is logarithmic this equates to almost double the reading for the north tower when compared to the south tower.

Have you really watched the DVD or just some doctored torrent?

Since both towers are virtually identical how can the north tower debris hit the ground with twice as much energy as the south?

Doesn't matter what floor the collapse started on, double the energy from two identical buildings means there must have been some additional energy source involved with the north that was not present with the south. Bombs would explain it but of course you disinfo guys are here to come up with ridiculous excuses to cover up the obvious.

You're just embarrassing yourselves. Take a poll on how many ATS members believe the official pancake fantasy and you'll see that you're just talking to yourselves.

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Speed of gravity? Perhaps you haven't seen this picture.

Bombs are just wind noise...
Amazing how the wind noise didn't affect the radio report.
The bomb signatures have already been given the CSI stamp of authenticity on other boards using spectrograph analysis of underground explosions. The signatures match and anyone who listens to the DVD can tell immediately that the wind noise claim is just lame disinfo.

Links? Or should we just take your word for it?

Yeh show the bottom arrow to Agent Smith cuz that's the debris from the top of the collapse that he pointed to in his first frame of the tower. See how it's falling close to the side of the tower. Sorry Smith Left Behind didn't mean to expose your fraud.

And regarding the cannon ball simulation being one that is not adjustable, of course the origin would be at the side of the tower above the freeze-frame IF the makers were trying to determine the origin, but they were not and made no such claims.

Anyone who watches a genuine copy of the original DVD will get all the information and will know that this experiment is only looking at the ARC of the projectile motion. Can't speak for the pirated torrents cuz I've heard most are doctored by folks who don't want the truth to get out.

The thing with a parabolic ARC is that the right and left side are the same as illustrated in the DVD. So even if we don't know exactly where the debris started from because of all the dust, we can look at the right side of the parabolic ARC and know that the shape matches that of a NON-HORIZONTAL projectile.

Smith your lame 9/11 debunking is dead, let it rest in pieces. Why don't you join the 'put a man on Mars is a good way to spend the taxpayers money' disinfo team. I understand you've got some Apollo buddies so you know how they stole the taxpayers money on that one. Tell everyone it's easier to go to Mars than make a movie about it like NASA said for the moon program. NASA can show Hollywood how to take a decade and spend trillions.

Buffy said:

Take a poll on how many ATS members believe the official pancake fantasy and you'll see that you're just talking to yourselves.

Here ya go....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Final result was something like 70% voted for inside job!

[edit on 19/1/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by Buffy
FEMA quoted Lamont-Doherty's seismic measurements in its report.
Isn't that good enough for you?
2.3 for the north tower and 2.1 for the south tower.

The interesting thing is that since the Richter magnitude scale is logarithmic this equates to almost double the reading for the north tower when compared to the south tower.

Have you really watched the DVD or just some doctored torrent?

Since both towers are virtually identical how can the north tower debris hit the ground with twice as much energy as the south?

Doesn't matter what floor the collapse started on, double the energy from two identical buildings means there must have been some additional energy source involved with the north that was not present with the south. Bombs would explain it but of course you disinfo guys are here to come up with ridiculous excuses to cover up the obvious.

To start with, the difference between log 2.1 and 2.3 is about 158% not double. A minor point, but let’s try to avoid hyperbole and exaggeration.

Anyway, why don’t you read the actual Lamont-Doherty report?

The seismic shaking associated with the impacts and the main collapses probably was small compared to those other energetic processes. The following order-of-magnitude estimates of energies involved corroborate this interpretation.

The gravitational potential energy associated with the collapse of each tower is at least 10^11 J. The energy propagated as seismic waves for ML 2.3 is about 10^6 to 10^7 J. Hence, only a very small portion of the potential energy was converted into seismic waves. Most of the energy went into deformation of buildings and the formation of rubble and dust.

In other words the difference between the seismic energy of the collapse of the north tower compared to the collapse of the south towers is a very, very small fraction of the total potential energy of the tower.

To try to imply ant sort of meaningful significance to this difference is akin to counting the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin.

Originally posted by HowardRoark


To start with, the difference between log 2.1 and 2.3 is about 158% not double. A minor point, but let’s try to avoid hyperbole and exaggeration.

In other words the difference between the seismic energy of the collapse of the north tower compared to the collapse of the south towers is a very, very small fraction of the total potential energy of the tower.

To try to imply ant sort of meaningful significance to this difference is akin to counting the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin.

no. it is a calculation. there is meaning in everything.

every angel is dancing on the head of any given pin.

exactly buffy.

it doesn't matter where the parabolic arc picture is depicted on the tower.

it is proven by the fact that 100's of tons of massive steel chunks of the exterior was found 100's of feet away and the ONLY way it could have gotten that far is in a parabolic arc!

there was nothing deceptive about that.

check it.....



here it is flying in a parabolic arc. (you can see it real clear on the video too)





and here it is at the winter garden building 600 feet away.



see how huge those chunks are?



and how many there were?



for scale to show how thick that steel is...look a the dude touching it in the bottom left corner.



you can bet that pancacking or load shift didn't cause that!

the new revelation from this video are the visible cutting charges you can see going off like mad in the core.

it's not even mentioned in the video.

rick just recently noticed them himself.

all you have to do is concentrate on the most center point of the building in the first few seconds of the clip and you will see a TON of flashes.

watch the first 9 seconds only over and over and concentrate on the core.

between second 4 and 5 it's like the paparazi on paris hilton.


www.911eyewitness.com...