NEWS: Trading Bibles for Porn

I think this idea is rather interesting.
If you read the tone of the respondent in the news quote you will realise that he has read the bible, koran etc and maybe understands what it says but he refuses to accept them!
It is a type of expression, a sign of mutiny against GOD saying- We are fed up with your control ! set us free !!. It isnt so much as about porn or converting people but a statement that they want to make.
Though this is a rather extreem way to make it, their passion is admirable given the kind of radical religious pressure that people tend to apply. I think they want to show people, that look people just dont care about religion anymore they'll exchange it for porn, dont force it down our throats no more and stay out of my head/classroom too.
I think this is very interesting to say the least and would want to know how many books they end up collecting and what are their individual numbers.



[edit on 7-12-2005 by IAF101]

Hmmm, trading a book that advocates morality versus one that advocates lust. Somehow, I don't see how this is a fair trade. I am not so sure this guy has read the Bible before, otherwise, he would see it as evolution throughout the pages, rather than a single instance of one philosophy, all events and thoughts occurring at the same time.

What I found amusing:

Morality is actually based off of empathy, and failing empathy, it's based off of fear of reprisal from the law. That is where morality comes from.

CARLSON: Yes. But the law, it's a circular argument. You need to think through it a little bit more, Thomas, because the law itself is based on at least a notion of abstract right and wrong, and that is not rooted in empathy or any emotion, but ... you know, an abstract belief that this is right and this is wrong because someone larger, in control, says so.

Does this guy Thomas Jackson realize where law is derived from? Does this guy even know where his sense of empathy, and right v. wrong come from?

It most likely comes from religion. He just doesn't want to admit religion's influence on the world throughout the past 2,000 years. It seems to me he believes that religion has never made a difference before on society until now. He may have read he Bible, but he sure doesn't seem to know his history.

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Jamuhn]

furthermore, most of the quotes about how horribly women are treated in the bible are taken way out of proportion with the rest of the text. it does not say that it's alright to do these things. it specifically shows you what happens to individuals who act wrongly, and believe me, they get their just rewards. of course, most of this is in the old testament, ie the old covenant. christianity is the new covenent through christ's sacrifice as expressed in the new testament.

Exactly. Sure the bible speaks of things such as insest and rape, but is it showing it to you in picture form? Is it PROMOTING the degrading of women? No... Thats the difference here. The bible is simply recording a piece of history just like any book you would have read in school.

Thats where this athiest groups point has gone all wrong. Big difference between relaying past events, and showing hardcore porn. Turn on the History Channel or Discovery and I'm sure you will hear something much worse within a day than what was documented in the bible.


[edit on 7-12-2005 by noslenwerd]

The Bible sanctifies slavery (in the 10th commandment no less!). It's more than simply recording history. If we were to believe the silliness in the Bible, god personally ordered genocide, he ordered Abraham to kill his son (and Abraham didn't even question it!?), he ordered animal sacrifices because the smell pleased him and then later claimed he found such a practice offensive, he ordered women who didn't scream loudly enough while being raped to be stoned to death, etc.

Some dinky insignificant ancient state is god's "chosen nation" and it's citizens were his "chosen race" just because some idiot was willing to murder his own son without question!? If not for religious delusion, these concepts would be patently offensive to anyone.

If this stuff were real, god would be a psychopath. The faithful have come up with all kinds of speculative arguments to try to whitewash this nonsense away, but those of us who do not buy into the fairy tales are rightly offended by such sanctified barbarism.

These are the actions of a group of impudent juveniles. The bible is one of the most important documents to come to us from antiquity. To compare it to pornography is utterly ridiculous and indicative of the lack of maturity and sophistication of those who would dare to propose such a thing. This story doesn't deserve attention even on the slowest of news days.

Repeats previous message for spamandham:
"I am not so sure this guy has read the Bible before, otherwise, he would see it as evolution throughout the pages, rather than a single instance of one philosophy, all events and thoughts occurring at the same time. "

Did you just gloss over the New Testament?

Originally posted by snafu770
maybe you could provide a link that proves darwin correct while youre at it? last time i checked, it was still a theory with no data to prove it correct.

how about some proof that the big bang happened? more unproven theory.

how about any proof at all of how this universe and all of its matter was formed without a supreme being?

Maybe you could link to some proof that a virgin can conceive and give birth to a child? The whole "immaculate conception" story probably came about because Mary didn't want to admit to Joseph that she got knocked up by some Roman soldier and so had to make up some story about an angel coming to visit her...

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well at least in a religion like Christianity, the people who do this think they're saving the eternal soul of the people they try to convert. There's no such incentive to convert people to atheism.

That's the main problem with Christianity, they beleive that they need to "save" people from Hell, and the only way to do that is to get them to accept Jesus. This is the worst form of ignorance, and much of the disdain for Christianity from non-Christians comes from the fact that the rest of us know that Jesus isn't the only way into Heaven. Christians for some reason can't seem to let go of this arrogant and primitive line of thought.

Originally posted by plague
wow that is pretty messed up ...trading faith and hope (and some extremely great stories of triumph thru aversidy) for the works of images defiling our women......

Saying something like that makes me beleive that you've never actually read the Bible.

Okay, this topic has and will stir up a lively debate as is the custon here on ATS. I want to just remind everybody to please stay on topic and kindly maintain a modicum of civility in the thread. Everyone is doing a awesum job so far, so please keep up the good work.

I believe they were doing this to get some press and prove their point. Job well done.

The forcing of Christianity on others is becoming a huge problem not just in this country but around the world. I have an uncle who left for Africa last week. Somewhere near the congo. At first he said they were going to build homes and schools. I was so impressed I gave him money to help fund his trip. The day before he left he came to visit and was talking about evangelizing and holding a revival with over 20,000 Africans to bring them to Jesus. See he is a born again. They believe they are the only people who get into heaven. I find this appalling for someone to assume the beliefs of an ancient culture are surely wrong and in order to get this house they build you must convert first to a modified version of Christianity.

I asked him what about the untold billions of people who died before TV preachers created this evangelical movement. Did they go to heaven? Since born agains believe only they go, what about those people. Sadly he says unless they said the magic words "I accept Christ" they did go to hell. I told him I believe God was smarter than that. He did not create the world only to wait until a group of Americans with control issues "discovered" how we can get into heaven. How can the Hindus be wrong? How can the muslims all be wrong. What about God's chosen people?

This is why Evangelical/Born Again Christianity will fall in this nation eventually. Evangelical/born agains are basically a cult. Study any other cult, look at the characteristics and then visit one of these churches were they call themselves apostles. Mainstream Christians will one day find their voice in their majority and send the super church preachers packing.

[edit on 12/7/2005 by nativeokie]

From Spamandham -

he ordered women who didn't scream loudly
enough while being raped to be stoned to death

I missed that. Where does it say that in the bible? Thanks.

Very well said nativeokie.
The point is that this is a reactionary movement to what these people have been subjected to. Constant prayer services, TV prayers, salvation redemption etc etc. They are sick of it basically and want this brainwashing to end. With people increasingly questioning the validity of science and attacking it as immoral and illegitimate, I will not be suprised if this "statement" turns to action against the Church and the umpteen people who are the Lords Lawyers !

From Shakyaheir -

Maybe you could link to some proof that a virgin can conceive and give birth to a child? The whole "immaculate conception" story probably came about because Mary didn't want to admit to Joseph that she got knocked up by some Roman soldier and so had to make up some story about an angel coming to visit her...

You have your information mixed up.

The Immaculate Conception refers to MARY and HER conception.
She was conceived by a man and a woman, her parents, but
without the stain of Original Sin on her soul. The belief is that
she was holy and pure from the moment of her conception so
as to be a worthy tabernacle to hold God in when He was
later conceived in her womb. That is the belief behind the
Immaculate Conception.

It's MARY's conception. Not Christ's.

She was saved by Christ, as we all were. But since God works
outside of time, He wiped away her Original Sin before her
soul entered her body in the womb.

THAT is the Immaculate Conception. It's funny that you should
question it. Tonight is the Vigil of the Feast of the Immaculate
Conception in the Catholic Church.

Your disbelief in the Virgin birth is what you are describing.
That's a whole different subject than the Immaculate Conception.

Your disbelief in the Virgin birth is what you are describing.

Sorry to confuse the two, but my point still stands. If you can call to question the validity of evolution or the big bang but still beleive that a virgin can give birth to a child (and they didn't have artificial insemination back then) then there's something very wrong with that logic.

ShakyaHeir - Hey, don't worry about getting them confused.
Lots' of folks do. I just figured that since it was being discussed,
we might as well get the 'official' terms correct. Ya' know?

How do you know it's not gay porn?

I think that this is the funniest thing that I have ever heard of. Some of the responses are hilarious as well. The person who stated that this was just a way for this group to get some publicity and attention is dead on target. Do you really think that someone who is a devoted follower of their faith is going to give up their religious tomes for some smut? I am willing to bet that there isn't a Gideon Bible left in a hotel room anywhere near there. What amazes me is that people consider this a threat to their beliefs. If they feel that these clowns are a threat, maybe they need to question how much faith they have in their own beliefs.

jamuhn
Repeats previous message for spamandham:
"I am not so sure this guy has read the Bible before, otherwise, he would see it as evolution throughout the pages, rather than a single instance of one philosophy, all events and thoughts occurring at the same time. "

Did you just gloss over the New Testament?

Of course I've read it, more than once. The inconsistency of the NT with respect to the OT does not negate the nasty nonsense in the old, not to mention that the NT still puts women on a lower pedestal than men, and also uses detestable master/slave language all throughout. Equating it with porn denegrates porn IMHO.

flyersfan
I missed that. Where does it say that in the bible? Thanks.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

originally posted by shakyaheir

Maybe you could link to some proof that a virgin can conceive and give birth to a child? The whole "immaculate conception" story probably came about because Mary didn't want to admit to Joseph that she got knocked up by some Roman soldier and so had to make up some story about an angel coming to visit her...

first of all, as many have done with different passages of the bible, you have taken my quote out of context. if you look at the post before mine, you will see that i was responding to a request to prove the existence of god. in turn, i was asking them to prove the different theories that people have decided are fact. in other words, theories, by definition, are just that: theories. none of them have been proven, and yet they are taught as fact.

second, in regards to the virgin mary, i think flyer has corrected your obvious lack of knowledge. that's what is so great about this site....you learn something new all the time.

That's the main problem with Christianity, they beleive that they need to "save" people from Hell, and the only way to do that is to get them to accept Jesus.

which just means that they actually care about your eternal soul. you dont have to agree with them or even humor them if you dont want to ....thats the great thing about this country. if they bother you so much, ignore them or tell them to go to hell....of course, i would hope you'd think about the irony of such a statement.

for everyone:

there is alot of talk here about how horrible the bible is, but nobody bothers to back it up with actual scripture. if you want to have this debate, lets do it right....show me what it is that you find offensive, instead of just spouting the same old unsubstantiated garbage over and over.

originally posted by spamandham
Deuteronomy 22:23-24

thank you spam for actually backing up your arguments with some kind of scripture.

having said that, the particular passage you have used is

a. a recitation of jewish law

b. doesnt really support your argument

deut. 22

23 if a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband and a man finds her in the city and lies with her,

24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death with stones. the young woman because she did not cry out in the city (as in for help, not in pleasure as previously suggested), and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife. so you shall put away the evil person among you.

in other words, kill both the adulterers, not just the woman.
but follow that up with the next passage for those of you who think it is cruel to women:

25 but if a man finds a bethrothed young woman in the countryside and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.

in other words, kill only the rapist.

which just means that they actually care about your eternal soul. you dont have to agree with them or even humor them if you dont want to ....thats the great thing about this country. if they bother you so much, ignore them or tell them to go to hell....of course, i would hope you'd think about the irony of such a statement.

No it means they care about spreading their religion. According to evangelical Christianity Gandhi is in Hell right now for not accepting Jesus as his saviour. I beleive in God, I pray regularly, but because I don't beleive in Jesus Christians assume I'm going to Hell when I die. If God and the afterlife are truly like what the Bible claims they are then I'd rather share Hell with Gandhi.

if you look at the post before mine, you will see that i was responding to a request to prove the existence of god. in turn, i was asking them to prove the different theories that people have decided are fact. in other words, theories, by definition, are just that: theories. none of them have been proven, and yet they are taught as fact.

What you fail to understand is that the theory of evolution and the theory of the big bang have much more empirical evidence (like the fact that humans and chimpanzees share 99% of the same DNA) to back them up then the theory presented in Genesis.