Jesus Was Not Black

OMG Nygdan, you almost made me wet myself. Stop it!

Sorry, it was the last couple of paragraphs that did me in.

Man isn't it obvious? Jesus never existed!

Come on, a guy who walks on Earth for over 30 years and never gets laid is either not real or a Star Trek Geek!

A guy who is friends with a prostitute and again never gets laid is either not real or a Star Trek Geek!

A guy who spent his friday nights not getting laid or partying is either not real or a Star Trek Geek!

A guy who does magic tricks for crowds is either not real or a Star Trek Geek who wanted to impress his imaginary girlfriend with magic tricks.

In other words, Jesus either didn't exist or was a Star Trek Geek!

Originally posted by StarkMan
In other words, Jesus either didn't exist or was a Star Trek Geek!

:shk: You know, not everyone allows their libido to run their lives. I would assume GOD would be able to exercise some self control if others can do so.

i agree with jj

jesus wouldn't be the first celebit man, or the last, in histoy.
divine or not, celebicy isn't that hard

also, the culture was different back then, it wasn't ALL about sex

I think Starkman was being a bit sarcastic... Everyone knows that if you dress up as Spock, you get plenty of action.

As to the actual discussion going on, I missed a few pages but I got the basic gist of it. Jesus was neither black nor white, he was probably middle-eastern.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Being omnipotent (hint: all knowing) and has nothing to do with skin color.

Omnipotent means all-powerful.
Omniscient means all-knowing.

Couldn't resist.

I'm 99% sure that Jesus was NOT black; the evidence you "prove" this with doesn't add to the credibility I have for that claim however.

Originally posted by OmniscientI'm 99% sure that Jesus was NOT black; the evidence you "prove" this with doesn't add to the credibility I have for that claim however.

When I was ten, and was attending a Christian school I had a T shirt with Jesus on it. He was depicted as being white, with blue eyes, and long, dirty blond hair. At the time I did not think anything of it. There were many paintings and illustrations I had seen before that which supported that image. Years later I remembered that shirt, and pondered on the power illustrators have over childrens views. I am 99% sure that Jesus was NOT white. However, as we have zero contemporary non-biblic references to Him, his disciples, family, entourage, or teachings. Certainly, Josephus lived very shortly after Jesus' times, being the earliest non-biblic writer to mention him, but from what I have read, his works cannot be totally trusted. If Jesus did in fact exist, which is something I feel it is near impossible to prove either way, he could have been black. Why not? It seems most likely he would look middle-eastern in appearance, but is there anyone alive today who can say for certain that he was? I doubt it.

'Love one another like I have loved you.' Yeshua Bar Joseph

hi folks,

PART ONE:

my point here is that one must establish truth based on rightfully dividing the scriptures and not adhering to his or her own opinion or feelings. i have my scriptural evidence to prove:

1. beyond the shadow of a dout the Messiah is black, what one would call a
"negro".
2. His people are also black (or "negroes").
3. the pale Jews in Israel today are COUNTERFEITS.
4. it's critically important that we understand that color should not matter when
it comes to dealing with biblical truth. But, since it was man's agenda via
satan to use color to distort and confuse the truth then we must use the truth
regarding color to arrive back at the truth.

i can refer you to all the scriptures you need to biblically prove these points. please, don't get mad because i've said these things for they are biblically true to the ones who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. i will explain myself via giving you an understanding as to how these points are critically implortant in understanding God's salvation plan.

we all know that satan is a master countefeiter and that satan knows the scriptures. this is the key that we all need to focus on. the fact is that despite what we have been taught over the years the bible declares that "salvation is of the Jews". yes, God has a protocol as to how he decides He wants His truth to go forth throughout the world. God uses His "chosen" people as His servants. They are chosen not because they are better than anyone else but because He's chosen them for a purpose, and that is to be the witnesses of His gospel that will cause people from all nations to obtain eternal life. Note that Romans tells us that it was unto the Jews that all covenants; both old (Ex.) and new (Jer. 31, Rom. 9) were established, as well as all promises and the service of God. God never established any of these things with ANYONE else!

what we are dealing with is the fact that as a master countefeiter it is satan's job to establish lies via confusing the truth thereby causing confusion. he successfully does this by merely utilizing a falsehood (lie) to go along with God's truth. for instance, it's God agenda to have a TRUE Messiah, gospel, church, and Jewish people whom He declared as His chosen. Meanwhile, it's satan's agenda to create a COUNTERFEIT Messiah, gospel, church, and Jewish people who will declare that they are God's chosen.

Satan knows that all truth was established with the Jews and it is to go forth throughout the world via the Jews. It was the remnant of believing Jews of Israel (and not Christians) that received the Messiah's true gospel message whom were commissioned to go and take "that" message to all other nations since it was unto them that the oracles of God were committed, again confirmed in both old and new testaments. It was the nation of Israel as a whole who rejected the true gospel message and were hence "cutoff", but not the remnant of believing Jews. These Jews were now converted "spiritual Jews", all belonging to the "commonwealth of Israel", thereby representing the Messiah's true church. It was unto these Jews that the Messiah gave the commission to go forth into every nation to take to them His true gospel, after they preached to gospel to their unbelieving brethern first.

So, it was job of these Jews, as God's chosen, to go unto their unbelieving Israelite bretheren who rejected the Messiah and try to get them to convert also into becoming part of them, God's true church, the Israel of God. Now, as leaders of God's church these "spiritual Jews" (as well as the unbelieving "national Jews") were ultimately dispersed and scattered into EVERY NATION. So, by planting the Jewish people in all nations is God's way of getting His true gospel message to all others so that they would be given the opportunity to become saved and inherit all covenant promises, including eternal life.

Originally posted by plague
JESUS WAS NOT A BLACK MAN ...THIS IS PROVEN BY THE FACT THAT HE IS HEBREW AND HEBREWS ARE NOT BLACK.......THE 12 TRIBES DID NOT ORIGINATE IN AFRICA....THIS IS A RUMOR SPREAD BY WORD OF MOUTH NOT HISTORICAL FACT .....YOU CAN START BY READING THE BIBLE ....REMEMBER KIDS...IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BELIEVE SOMETHING YOU READ THAN TO PREACH SOMETHING YOU HAVE HEARD

Mod Edit: Fixed all caps title.

[edit on 6-12-2005 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

Please do not use "all caps" in thread titles, or posts.

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]

[AND HE DIDNT LOOK LIKE A SEVENTIES PORN STAR EITHER!!! IN FACT WE REALLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE!!!! WHAT IF HE WAS A 4' 10" SHORT BALD GUY WITH A BEER BELLY!!!!! STOP YELLING YOUR HURTING MY BRIAN WITH YOUR DUMBNESS]

[edit on 29-8-2006 by Sonata]

I had to put a word in

Follow the message, not the man...

Seriously, all you people arguing over whether Jesus was black/white need to stop being retarded.

Originally posted by Kamran
I had to put a word in

Follow the message, not the man...

Seriously, all you people arguing over whether Jesus was black/white need to stop being retarded.

The big question really would be why does it matter what ethanticity he was.

hi again folks,

PART TWO, point 1 of 2

But who of the nations would really receive this gospel message of salvation that was coming from this remnant of Jews, spiritual Israel, God's true church, the Israel of God, the commonwealth of Israel....scattered into every nation? Well,
just like the nation of Israel did so will every nation on the face of this earth. As a whole, every nation will reject the true gospel of love, peace, and truth that comes via this remnant of spiritual Israel, these nobodys, these outcasts. Instead, they will as a whole allow themselves to be deceived....just as national Israel had done since they are truly lovers of this world and not lovers of God and His righteousness.

However, there is good news. There will be a remnant from each nation, from each generation that will adhere to the true gospel as witnessed by this remnant, thereby following the true Messiah, thus becoming proselytized unto God's true church which is of a Hebraic persuasion and not of a Greco-Roman origin. So, all believers (witnesses) therein, now being a part of God's "chosen", will all be adhering to one Lord, one faith (based on the Mosaic Law which is God's righteousness), and one baptism (via god's one holy spirit).

But this activity will not be going on in the mainstream of any society for the nations (just as Israel did) will all have simply made up thier own lies (counterfeit gospels, counterfeit messiahs, counterfeit churches, and counterfeit truths), thereby all doing away with God's righteousness via the Mosaic Law. Again, this is the parallelism that the bible gives us. It's only a matter of history repeating itself until the appointed time of the end comes. So, just as Israel was deceived as a whole via making up their own righteousness (falsifying the true teachings of the Mosaic law thus creating a counterfeit) and only a remnant were saved and then the nation was destroyed, so will it be regarding every nation on this earth as they will go forth creating thier own counterfeit religions but a remnant will be saved while the nation as a whole is deceived and then destroyed (see Jeremiah).

So, it is God's plan for Israel to be scattered in every nation being overtaken by the Gentiles (now who in the world are they?) until the Times of the Gentiles comes to an en. This is the time appointed for true Israel to be in captivity partaking of God's curses for thier continual disobedience to His laws. This end will occur exactly at the appointed time of the Messiah's return, when all nations of the earth will mourn, fall, and then all truth (this very truth) will be openly revealed.

For their disobedience true Israel (a black people) at the end of time is supposed to be in captivity fulfilling the curses of Gen. & Deut. 28 (which include being taken in ships as slaves to a land their forefathers never knew as a result of not obeying the covenant law (the Ten Commandments, Mosaic Law). At the same time, with the fulfilling of the Parable of the Fig Tree at the end of Time a counterfeit Israel (bad, very bad figs) is supposed to return back to the land of Israel (Jer. 24, Matt. 24).

Not only does the curses reflect that they would be in slavery up to the appointed time of their Messiah's 2nd advent since they delivered up their Messiah to be crucified and then ignorantly chose to save the known theif Barrabas instead of saving their own innocent Messiah upon which they agreed to let the blood be on their hands and also on the hands of their children's children, all the way down to many generations later....but the curses also revealed that they would even lose thier identity as to who they really are and would be known by proverbs and bywords (negro, 'n-word', African-American, coon, etc.)

hello again,

PART TWO, point 2 of 2

So, it is the black man here in America who does not who he is but his history is perfectly preserved in the pages of the Holy Bible for the benefit of the entire world. However, he remains in a cursed state since he still to this very day reject the knowledge of the truth regarding who he as he ignorantly serves the Gods of his oppressors and slave masters and continue to forsake His God by rejecting the witness of the true gospel that comes via His "unblinded" brethren of the flesh.

So, while God is truly punishing His people for their continual disobedience he allows satan to go forth throughout the world with all of his counterfeits. Why? Merely to test the hearts of the people to see if they are truly righteous or evil. So, when someone tells you that the Messiah is black (a "negro) and that his people of the flesh, the American "negroes", are being enslaved in the western hemisphere by the Gentiles, not knowing who they are, and not knowing that they are cursed by their own God...HOW DOES THIS MAKE YOU FEEL? Does color matter now?

Remember, "salvation is of the Jews". If you truly desire salvation then you need to have a biblically sound understanding of who these Jews are, where these Jews are, and how God is using ALL Jews (the true ones and the counterfeit ones) in His salvation plan. For it is in the midst of God's real Jewish people that you will find God and His real truth. However, it gets quite tricky since satan has almost perfectly confused as he goes forward propogating all of his COUNTERFEITs throughout the world. If you are looking at the COUNTERFEIT Jews to obtain an understanding of the positive side of God's salvation plan (which directly affects you) then you'll never, ever find the true gospel message to obtain eternal life.

It is satan who has successfully thwarted God's salvation plan by merely cutting off the source from whence God's truth comes from...the true Jewish people. Over the years he's tried physically killing them off but when that didn't work he sought to use deception to kill them off spirtually, hence also killing off their true gospel message. By doing this satan has successfully caused the masses worldwide to become deceived, meaning all other professed believers and witnesses other than the true spiritual Jews of the true church, the true Israel of God, think that the gospel they have is God's real truth when in reality it's nothing but one of satan's many counterfeits. All such professed believers will therefore be a part of a counterfeit church, professing a counterfeit Messiah, thereby being counterfeit witnesses, thinking they are in covenant with God but simply are not.

Now I hope you see how your simplistic questions regarding the color of the Messiah and His people are critically important. Since Satan has used the evilness of racism to "undo the truth", then a true believer and righteous witness must utilize color so the "undone truth" can be soundly corrected.

Simply put, salvation is of the Jews and no one else. This is where truth starts. Anything other than this is merely one of Satan's counterfeits. It is your job as a seeker and lover of truth to merely locate the "right spiritual Jew". Any true spiritual Jew (be it a converted Jew of the flesh or a proselytized Gentile) will be able to teach you this truth regarding his family history, again if he's truly a spiritual child of God. Now, doesn't that make sense?

This is what Jeremiah 24 is talking about when he discusses the different types of figs, ie. "good, bad fig", "good, very good fig", "evil, good fig", "evil, bad fig". Again, the fig represents Israel. Out of the 4 types of figs only one will do...the "good, very good fig" and not any of the other COUNTERFEITS. That's the one you must locate in order for him to teach you the true gospel and to teach you of the true Messiah who is the only one who can give you eternal life.

I have read books outlining the case for an African Yeshua Bar Joseph. The conclusion I came to is that it is absolutely possible, but I was not convinced that it was proven to be so. If so, that's great, but if not, that's great too. I noted that Revelations mentions his woolly hair, when describing his return, and of course, the most woolly hair there is is African. It feels just like wool when cut short, soft and cushy. But that is not enough to prove anything. In fact, I have read two Jewish historians books which both make very good arguments proposing that Jesus never existed at all. I like to think he did exist, despite the complete absence of non-biblical contemporary accounts mentioning Jesus, his family, disciples, or followers. Not one writer of the time in the area saw any of them and wrote about it. I don't feel that proves he didn't exist though.
I have seen a sculpture of Sarah, Abrahams wife, where she is clearly depicted as African. The black Madonna, of Gothic Cathedral fame, supports the claim that Jesus' wife Mary Magdalene, was also African. I have read that Balthazar, one of the three wise men, was black too. I know that many Pharoahs were black, and the face on the Sphinx sure looks African, which makes sense, the Pyramids, etc. being in Africa.
I kind of hope you're right and he was black. I used to have a t shirt when I was a kid, and Jesus had blonde hair and blue eyes....lol. At the time I never thought anything of it. I doubt he was Scandanavian though.
You mentioned slavery, and I heard that the emancipation of the slaves included a restitution to be paid to each freed slave of 40 acres of land and a mule. But I also heard they didn't make good on the promise. If that was calculated in 2006 dollars, I wonder how much the gov't would owe? Do you know anything of that?

a good movie for those who want to see a black jesus is coming out: The Color of the Cross.

it is not meant to stir up controversy, only to depict the most positive black character ever

Jesus black?.. to the guy who did the whole two part bit there, you really need to learn more about geographic demographies.


Blacks are mostly from below the sahara, Egyptians where not black for instance, there may have been a few there but indeed most where Arab or a mix of the two.

Jesus, well he was not white that is for sure, he was deffiantly not black either. He was a hebrew, so most likely aramaic, looks more Arab then white or black.

The fact that Marry claimed to be a virgin could have ment she was raped by occupying roman soldiers, if a women is raped she is outcasted so what better way to hide that then to claim divine intervention?

Jesus is supposed to be from the present day Israeli location. Look around today... see many blacks there? Want to know what Jesus probably looked like? .. go to Palestine.. because if he where alive today he would have been a palestinian most likely.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Blacks are mostly from below the sahara, Egyptians where not black for instance, there may have been a few there but indeed most where Arab or a mix of the two.
Jesus, well he was not white that is for sure, he was deffiantly not black either. He was a hebrew, so most likely aramaic, looks more Arab then white or black.
The fact that Marry claimed to be a virgin could have ment she was raped by occupying roman soldiers, if a women is raped she is outcasted so what better way to hide that then to claim divine intervention?
Jesus is supposed to be from the present day Israeli location. Look around today... see many blacks there? Want to know what Jesus probably looked like? .. go to Palestine.. because if he where alive today he would have been a palestinian most likely.

First, Egyptians were a cosmopolitan society with light and dark skinned African citizens and Pharoahs. Look at the Sphinx closely, the face is almost certainly that of a black African. Abraham's wife Sarah has been portrayed as being black. And Mary Magdalene is seen by a great many people as being black. Your claim that he was definitely not black is on thin ground, imo. I do agree that the odds on favorite, best bet as to his physical appearance is Middle Eastern. But, we have no record of what he looked like, and since it is pretty well established that there was at different times intermarriage between the rulers of Israel and Egypt. It also seems pretty clear that there were blacks in the area during his lifetime.
Regarding Mary's delicate condition, there is a far tamer reason. In the 9 months between the conditional marriage and the conclusion of the marriage vows which then make it an official marriage, the bride is watched to see if she shows any signs of being pregnant. After nine months, they give the marriage approval. If Mary was pregnant before the final ceremony, then Joseph would be in trouble and the marriage would be off. It could be that Joseph swore he didn't do it, and Mary swore no one did.... or that it was divine intervention. The story might pass, and the marriage be official.
Regarding the physical characteristics of a population of an area 2 000 years ago, it could have been quite different. Look at America, for instance. The ethnicity has completely changed in 2 000 years.

Moses was in chok when he realised the fact about GOD:

She was black!

Jesus was not black as he possibly did not exist!

Who cares what color he is...paint him pink, does it matter.

Peace

dalen

posted by Kamran

I had to put a word in: Follow the message, not the man . . Seriously, all you people arguing over whether Jesus was black/white need to stop being retarded. [Edited by Don W]

I wonder just what was the message? Whatever do-good items attributed to Jesus are more honored in the breach. Most people I read agree that Christianity is more defined by St. Paul, than of Jesus.

Sure, Jesus was a Semite. I agree that Jesus references in Josephus are bogus. I’m thinking that was added around 400 AD. Seems 30 odd years ago I read a Josephus manuscript from around 250-300 AD was found and it did not contain those references. Others had reached the same conclusion through study of the context and choice of words which date the addition to late 4th or early 5th century.