Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

I've invited a representative of the serpo.org website to participate in discussions here on ATS via either an exclusive interview, an event in our guest speaker's forum, or a podcast interview. I'll let everyone know what the response is.

Excellent news. I have a number of questions -- in particular, what is the relationship between the website operator and "anonymous". How did this person come to be in contact with "anon" and how do they address the obvious peculiarity of the Serpo.org site appearing almost solely for the purpose of publishing anon's claims?

Also, who are the supposed members of the private email list? If there are the claim 100, or so, prominent Ufologists, then who are they and why are they not speaking or, at the very least, identifying themselves?

There is far, far too much being claimed by Anon not to have more information that could help bolster the credibility of the information. I don't expect that to happen, though.

If Anon is truly who he/she purports to be, they must have been EXTREMELY highly placed within the intelligence community. As I read through Anon's posts, it's clear that the manner in which the government compartmentalizes information is clearly at odds with a single person having such extensive knowledge of all of the details.

Another thought I have is whether Anon is remaining anonymous to avoid government repercussions (unlikely) or having his credibility evaluated by a fair and impartial jury of Ufologists (more likely). I think Bob Lazar proved that someone with a story to tell is better off going public in such a way as to protect himself from repercussions by remaining in a bright, public spotlight. Of course, Lazar may not have told the truth either, which would result in the government simply branding him "subversive" without taking further action... but....

With "anon", I suggest we encourage the same level of publicity. If he refuses, then I would write him off as a hoax without some sort of hard evidence (at this point, I would probably do so anyway... but I'd like to give him a chance).

Most importantly, the community of hard-working Ufologists needs to protect itself from damage this person may cause, especially if they are simply taking an old story, putting a new twist on it, and making false claims. There may be something to the Serpo project... but if some prankster drags this into the realm of pure fiction, we may never get to the actual truth.

It IS true that 2 craft crashed, it IS true that the alien that crashed there did not resemble the grey but rather more like a combination of humans and greys, so perhaps Betty and Barney Hill weren't abducted by the Grey but by the Eben as explained in this article.

However it is dubious this person stays anonymous.

It's also interesting that they were planning the exchange around the period kennedy was shot since many will agree that Kennedy was gonna disclose something about ET's, he may very well wanted to announce the exchange project!

I was thinking about the Kennedy connection when I read this... thanks for bringing that up. It's going to be interesting to do some digging to compare presidential activities (JFK and LBJ) on the critical dates mentioned by Anon.

Also, as an FYI... I saw that Anon has made a 30 November posting.. What's also interesting is that the site makes space for 13 postings on their menu bar. Could this be foreshadowing that #13 (the next one) will be the last? Perhaps with a big "haha... gotcha"? If that's true, then the joke's on them -- nobody appears to be buying into this guy to any great degree.

who wants to bet that the guy posting this is also the same guy who posted as "John Titor"

Nice catch there noslenwerd.
I was noticing that the diction that both used in their postings are very similar.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Nice catch there noslenwerd.
I was noticing that the diction that both used in their postings are very similar.

Yup, thats the first thing that popped into my head after reading about 2-3 paragraphs. Just the way everything leads up in this, also reminds me of titor.

IMO, this is a person who has done a ton of reading and research on the topic at hand (Roswell), and has also taken some other coincidences that may have some connection to past ET/UFO events (the jfk reference before, about how he may have been assassinated because he was going to reveal something about UFOs). I think this person leaves just enough clues by only being vague on the topic, for instance the date that coincides with the JFK killing, and he does it on purpose, waiting for people like us to make the connections. Which makes the story seem a bit more valid to the reader.

Overall it is to far fetched for me to believe

I think this person should have stuck to writing a Fiction book and actually made some money off of this.

Just my .02



[edit on 1-12-2005 by noslenwerd]

Fair enough.. but lets suppose that this person believes that he/she is telling the truth. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that this person was "in the loop" for a small segment of an actual Project Serpo. Due to the compartmentalization of intelligence, however, people were fed significant amounts of disinformation with regard to everything that wasn't directly part of their responsibility, just in case they ever opened their yaps like this fellow/lady has done.

What that really means is that we must sort through what this person says with the understanding that there may be some elements of truth and some elements of disinformation intertwined into the story... and sprinkle that with 40 years of failing memory -- by my estimation, the "Anon" must be at LEAST 80-90 years old. Most people in positions of trust and authority would have been in their early 40's to 50's during the period when this is alleged to have occured. Even if they were just in their 30's, that puts them in their 70's now....

If, in fact, this person is reaching an advanced age and wants to set the record straight before they pass-on, then the motivation makes sense. But I'd like to see "Anon's" face pop-up in this. If it's not a really old person, then that, alone, is evidence of fraud.

I find it interesting that one of the persons on the 12 man team died of pneumonia, which is basically impossible on another planet, since its caused by bacteria.
Anything found on that planet is 99.999% sure to not being able to be a human pathogen.

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
I find it interesting that one of the persons on the 12 man team died of pneumonia, which is basically impossible on another planet, since its caused by bacteria.
Anything found on that planet is 99.999% sure to not being able to be a human pathogen.

can u debunk this guy in one swift shot?

Originally posted by Centrist
I've found a few inconsistencies, as well... First, the claim is that the Eben race has no conception of "time" as we do. Then, he claims that the Eben's agreed to a time and date for a meeting. Granted that they would probably be capable of understanding our calendar, I still find that inconsistency disconcerting.

Yeah, it would be disconcerting if it actually existed. It doesn't. He states

The only major problem was time. Time was different on the visitor's planet. I don't think anyone ever figured it out. The visitors had no clocks. They didn't judge or account for time as we did. The visitors found our attempts to account for time strange.

and then in regards to the sixth message you cite he states

The incoming messages gave a time and date (Eben date and time system),

Now...where's the inconsistency?

Don't get me wrong, this is nothing until proven otherwise, but let's not muddy the waters with errant accusations.

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
I find it interesting that one of the persons on the 12 man team died of pneumonia, which is basically impossible on another planet, since its caused by bacteria.
Anything found on that planet is 99.999% sure to not being able to be a human pathogen.

Why is it impossible?

he states

Moving to the Equatorial region, our team found desert-style landscapes which contained patches of vegetation. The team found numerous pockets of water fed to the ground by Artesian Wells. This water was the freshest, containing only the unknown chemicals. It tasted good and the Ebens drank and used it. Our team still boiled it because during culture tests, unknown types of bacteria were detected.

Actually, it depends on what bacteria caused the pneumonia.
Example Staphylococcus aureus
Can be transfered to the human host from tainted food.
vm.cfsan.fda.gov...

Also there are many viruses (another cause of pnemonia) as well as bacteria that can lie in a dormant stage for years and in some cases centuries. One of the other "team members" could have acted like a typhoon mary and the exchangee that died could have caught it from the other.
I still think this person's story stinks to high heaven though and is based off of the 1991 by bill Moore

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Smells like hoax.

The writing style, grammar, and choice of words do not read like that of someone who would have been an adult at the time these events occurred.

Not to mention, the laughable claim that physics would be different in another solar system really hurts the overall credibility.

Maybe you're laughing too quickly.

Let's review what he said:

Our scientists had the same questions, as posed by your audience. Our scientists questioned our team members and the information they gathered. Our scientists could not understand how the orbit of Serpo could revolve around the two suns at the distance measured.

One of the questions sent me involved Kepler's Law of Planetary Motion. Our team had that information. We had some of the best military scientists on the team. But if you consider Kepler's Law, it requires time and our team could only measure time in the conventional way. It was determined that Kepler's Laws did not apply to that solar system.

CONCLUSION: One of the things our Earth-based scientists learned was not to apply Earth's laws of physics in a universal way.

Let's not forget this is a two-star solar system:

Diameter: 7,218 miles
Mass: 5.06 x 1024
Distance from Sun #1: 96.5 million miles
Sun #2: 91.4 million miles
Moons: 2
Surface gravity: 9.60m/s2
Rotation Periods: 43 hours
Orbit: 865 days
Tilt: 43 degrees
Temperature: Min: 43° / Max: 126°
Distance from Earth: 38.43 light years
Planet named by Team: SERPO
Nearest planet to SERPO: Named: OTTO
Distance:
88 million miles (colonized by Ebens with research base, but no natural inhabitants on planet)
Number of planets in Eben Solar System: Six
Nearest inhabited planet to SERPO:

Named: SILUS (SILUS is made up of creatures of various types, but no intelligent life forms. Ebens use the planet to mine minerals.)
Distance: 434 million miles

And he points out that (if the claim Sagan was involved is true), Carl Sagan stated:

After reading Dr. Sagan's remarks on the Serpo project, which is about 60 jam-packed pages of calculations, I found one paragraph which states that in order to use Kepler's law – in the case of Planet Serpo – one had to vary the exact gravitational pull placed on Serpo by the two suns. Serpo did not have large planets, like Jupiter and Saturn to affect the gravitational pull as the Earth does. Serpo's gravitational pull was different than anything Dr. Sagan had ever seen before.

There are numerous figures and calculations to support this. I will forward them at a later date. Have your list stay tuned.

And further comments made to support this...

In response to the intensive ongoing debate recorded in the Comments section of this site, I would like to endorse this clarification from a prominent physicist on the list:

The senior theory (essentially proven) is Newton's inverse square law for gravity. For a simple system, Kepler's Laws are a fallout of what a planetary solution looks like (for the simple case of a single planet circling a massive sun). For a complex situation (like a planet interacting with two suns, several planets, or whatever) you have to go back to Newton's law and solve a many-body problem which takes a computer. In this case Kepler's Laws are only an approximation, since they hold only for the simplest case.

I might point out that this is absolutely correct...

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

Kepler's laws of planetary motion may be derived from these laws[Newton's law of universal gravitation and Newton's laws of motion], when it is assumed that the orbiting body is subject only to the gravitational force of the central attractor.

It won't work in a two-star solar system.

I don't think you should take his words as stating "physics don't apply" there. He stated they learned not to universally apply a physical model every where.

That's different.


[edit on 12-1-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall

He states

The visitors had no clocks. They didn't judge or account for time as we did. The visitors found our attempts to account for time strange.

and then in regards to the sixth message you cite he states

The incoming messages gave a time and date (Eben date and time system),

Now...where's the inconsistency?

I think you summed up the inconsistency quite well -- the earlier message states that the Ebens do not account for time like we do. The later message states that the Ebens have a date and time system of their own. Either they use times and dates or they don't. If they had a time and date system of their own, why would they find "our attempts to account for time strange" if they account for time using a time/date system?

Perhaps you could help me out by reconciling the two statements?


[edit on 1-12-2005 by Centrist]

that's what i though was it not 2 days after the original crash the second craft was found.
this puts a whole new spin on roswell fro me at least

Graham

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Graham]

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
I find it interesting that one of the persons on the 12 man team died of pneumonia, which is basically impossible on another planet, since its caused by bacteria.
Anything found on that planet is 99.999% sure to not being able to be a human pathogen.

Why is it impossible?
he states

Moving to the Equatorial region, our team found desert-style landscapes which contained patches of vegetation. The team found numerous pockets of water fed to the ground by Artesian Wells. This water was the freshest, containing only the unknown chemicals. It tasted good and the Ebens drank and used it. Our team still boiled it because during culture tests, unknown types of bacteria were detected.

Unless they have the same ancestor, which I really dont expect, these cells arent bacteria. They can be anything else, but the chance that they produce anything that could harm our body, or do so before being destroyed by our own stomach-flora, is quite small.

The reason they call it bacteria, is probably because they could see small cells, but they didnt have any high-tech equipment like an electron-microscope.
Notice that they didnt have any biologist with them, which could explain why they just call them bacteria like any other person.


Of notice btw, I only meant microbial pathogens, not 'naturally' occuring chemicals.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Actually, it depends on what bacteria caused the pneumonia.
Example Staphylococcus aureus
Can be transfered to the human host from tainted food.
vm.cfsan.fda.gov...

Also there are many viruses (another cause of pnemonia) as well as bacteria that can lie in a dormant stage for years and in some cases centuries. One of the other "team members" could have acted like a typhoon mary and the exchangee that died could have caught it from the other.

Yes, some bacteria can lie dormant for literally an eternity. Virus can not in most cases, but thats a whole other story.
Anyway, 2 things counts against the pneumonia story:
1. To get an bacterial infection, you need lots of cells in your body, depending on microbial species. You dont have an 'infectious bombs' lying around in equipment, especially not when it has probably been sterilised before departure.
2. This team is the best of the best, so they have also been in physical perfect shape, and you dont just die of pneumonia. Young children and older person do, but thats because their immuno system isnt up to the task. They might have been weakened by the environment as the text also notices, but I still dont believe that this could have been the cause.

Originally posted by Centrist


I think you summed up the inconsistency quite well -- the earlier message states that the Ebens do not account for time like we do. The later message states that the Ebens have a date and time system of their own. Either they use times and dates or they don't. If they had a time and date system of their own, why would they find "our attempts to account for time strange" if they account for time using a time/date system?

Perhaps you could help me out by reconciling the two statements?


[edit on 1-12-2005 by Centrist]

I think the discrepancy exists in your mind and not my mind, so I probably can't. See, I take what he is saying as

...the visitors found our attempts (i.e. the way those attempts were being made) to account for time...strange.

our time instruments did not work on Serpo.

Now, considering this, you can understand the difficult job our team members had making calculations without time. They had to come up with an alternate method to measure speeds, orbits, etc.

Challenge: Try solving a problem in physics without being able to measure time on Earth!

I think what is being explained above would look awfully strange to some one who is not keeping time in the same manner we do - and our time pieces aren't working properly in the first place.

That's the way I take the statement...so there really isn't a discrepancy when I read it.

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Unless they have the same ancestor, which I really dont expect, these cells arent bacteria. They can be anything else, but the chance that they produce anything that could harm our body, or do so before being destroyed by our own stomach-flora, is quite small.

The reason they call it bacteria, is probably because they could see small cells, but they didnt have any high-tech equipment like an electron-microscope.
Notice that they didnt have any biologist with them, which could explain why they just call them bacteria like any other person.


Of notice btw, I only meant microbial pathogens, not 'naturally' occuring chemicals.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Actually, it depends on what bacteria caused the pneumonia.
Example Staphylococcus aureus
Can be transfered to the human host from tainted food.
vm.cfsan.fda.gov...

Also there are many viruses (another cause of pnemonia) as well as bacteria that can lie in a dormant stage for years and in some cases centuries. One of the other "team members" could have acted like a typhoon mary and the exchangee that died could have caught it from the other.

Yes, some bacteria can lie dormant for literally an eternity. Virus can not in most cases, but thats a whole other story.
Anyway, 2 things counts against the pneumonia story:
1. To get an bacterial infection, you need lots of cells in your body, depending on microbial species. You dont have an 'infectious bombs' lying around in equipment, especially not when it has probably been sterilised before departure.
2. This team is the best of the best, so they have also been in physical perfect shape, and you dont just die of pneumonia. Young children and older person do, but thats because their immuno system isnt up to the task. They might have been weakened by the environment as the text also notices, but I still dont believe that this could have been the cause.

Right - you just killed your own argument. The same scientists who might have (according to you) mis-identified a microbial species from a bacteria may also have misdiagnosed pneumonia. For all we know the guy died of a respiratory virus...or extreme allergies to Eben-fungus.

I think the discrepancy exists in your mind and not my mind, so I probably can't.

LOL... fair enough I agree with your perspective, but when I read the two statements, I see things that don't seem to coexist properly. It's all a rather minor point in the whole analysis -- I don't think I'll draw any conclusions about this until we've heard more from the source.

I will note, however, that there's something about this site and the cross-reference between the Serpo.org and Richard Doty's book that strikes me with a bit of fear that this whole thing is a hoax to sell books. I hope it's not, but I have my suspicions.