NEWS: A New Weapon Against Mold?

As New Orleans and the rest of the Gulf Coast continues the process of recovering from damage caused by Hurricane Katrina, one problem that many homeowners now face is the discovery and remediation of mold. In the past, the most common procedure was to tear out the affected surfaces and replace them with new materials. Now, some people are turning to a new procedure which uses chlorine dioxide to kill the mold.



The remediation of mold is a rapidly growing business.

For areas like New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, homes that were not completely destroyed by the direct effects of the hurricane (i.e. flooding, wind, foundation shift, etc.) may be rendered uninhabitable by the growth of mold.

Because of the enormous expenses involved and the difficulty in preventing its growth, most homeowner's policies do not cover mold remediation. According to the story linked above and other links copied below, it may be possible to fully remove mold without destroying the interior of a home. One company, Sabre Technical Services, is using chlorine dioxide to help clean up New Orleans.

I first saw this story on one of the 24-hour news channels - either Fox or CNN Headline News. It was of interest to me because I recently sold my home despite a mold scare. Prior to its sale, the buyer demanded a mold inspection within the walls. When the airborne sample collected from the wall space came back positive for toxic mold, I nearly lost the sale and was looking at thousands of dollars in repairs. The result was very shocking to me because I live in the desert and my home was only a few years old. Fortunately for me, the sale went through because we opened up the wall in question and did a visual inspection. We found no mold whatsoever.

In the midst of our crisis I did a lot of research on mold and came to the conclusion that a lot of mold testing and remediation companies are scamming homeowners out of millions of dollars.

For places like the Gulf Coast, mold is a real menace because of the climate: you can see it and the spore concentrations are extremely high. For the rest of the country, the problem isn't so clear. Homeowners are often frightened into outrageous procedures and costs because of reports of a link between chronic health problems and mold spores. In my research, I found that there are no established national standards for testing for mold. Even worse, there appear to be no set national standards for "hazardous" levels of mold. Finally, it appears that the jury is still out on the biological link between mold and chronic health issues. For certain, many people have allergic reactions to mold spores in the air. However, others claim that a significant fraction of the population is susceptible to extreme reactions which can be fatal.

If the procedure used by Sabre turns out to be effective and long-lasting, the costs for mold remediation could drop dramatically.

The first link copied below is the press release put out by Sabre Technical Services. The second link is a MSDS for ClO2 diluted in water. (It should be noted that Sabre uses airborne ClO2). The final two links demonstrate the variation across the country in what is considered acceptable mold levels.

Related News Links:
sev.prnewswire.com
www.haloxtech.com
www.inspect-ny.com
www.co.st-louis.mo.us

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
politics.abovetopsecret.com...
Large scale outbreak of diseases because of katrina?


[edit on 11/30/2005 by ChemicalLaser]

This is good news. Of course, chlorine dioxide is nothing new, but it sure sounds a lot better than the massive demolition that has been suggested before. I certianly didn't know about this option.

Chlorine dioxide is a micro biocide that has been used for disinfection and sterilization in the food and drinking water industries for over seventy years. It does not form toxic byproducts, is environmentally friendly, and leaves no residual toxicity. Chlorine dioxide gas penetrates into all surfaces, including interior wall cavities, porous surfaces, carpets, ducting and insulation. The treatment eliminates the need for traditional "rip and replace" mold remediation and substantially reduces the cost and duration of renovation.

Saber Technical Services

With more and more info coming out, we will probably have an answer to whether mold is bad or not soon.

there are massive scams, and it is always far better to be informed than to be taken advantage of.
there is a great king of the hill episode that deals with mold scams.

in truth... every house has mold, but how much, and how dangerous.

the same is true for asbestos in older 1960 or earlier houses. It used to be a deal killer, but now they just paint over it, or encapsulate it... and all is fine.
(much better than taking it out, so that it can become dust in the air)

Good work ChemicalLaser.

Where can one buy chlorine dioxide - and are you 100% certain that it's non-toxic?

Laz - seems the links between chronic disease and mold are quite clear - ie., black mold and lung cancer. As with everything - takes a package though. The old multifactorial/complex system thing. Maybe no direct cause and effect relationships, but associations nonetheless.

Toxicity unknown but if it's been used for a hundred years with little reports of hazards that I know of I do know it can be explosive under certain conditions. That is the only risk I found in a quick 2 minute search.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Toxicity unknown but if it's been used for a hundred years with little reports of hazards that I know of I do know it can be explosive under certain conditions. That is the only risk I found in a quick 2 minute search.

Thanks sardion.

My concern: Most toxicity reports confine themselves to short term studies - but the really bad stuff and chronic effects don't usually show up until after a decade or so with most things. Even so, scientists and doctora only pay attention to fast-acting acute effects. Not good enough, IMO. Misrepresentative.

Will search it before I buy.

Originally posted by soficrow
My concern: Most toxicity reports confine themselves to short term studies - but the really bad stuff and chronic effects don't usually show up until after a decade or so with most things. Even so, scientists and doctora only pay attention to fast-acting acute effects. Not good enough, IMO. Misrepresentative.

Will search it before I buy.

As posted by Grady, it's been used in our drinking water and foods for 70 years so it should be fairly safe to spray in your walls.

Chlorine dioxide is a micro biocide that has been used for disinfection and sterilization in the food and drinking water industries for over seventy years. It does not form toxic byproducts, is environmentally friendly, and leaves no residual toxicity. Chlorine dioxide gas penetrates into all surfaces, including interior wall cavities, porous surfaces, carpets, ducting and insulation. The treatment eliminates the need for traditional "rip and replace" mold remediation and substantially reduces the cost and duration of renovation.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

As posted by Grady, it's been used in our drinking water and foods for 70 years so it should be fairly safe to spray in your walls.

Have you noticed what's happened to peoples' health over the last 70 years? Did you know that there's a chronic disease epidemic - and cancer now is considered a chronic disease?

Most of these diseases have appeared or become common in the last 50-70 years. Long term use is NO indication of safety.

Where can one buy chlorine dioxide - and are you 100% certain that it's non-toxic?

Aqueous solutions are available from Sigma-Aldrich, but the decontamination work apparently requires gaseous ClO2. I don't have my gas catalogs handy, but I'm sure its pretty easy to get. I imagine you could contact Sabre Technical Services and they might tell you who their supplier is. Otherwise, a list of potential suppliers can be found at www.moldreporter.org..., about halfway down the page.

As far as toxicity, from the MSDS:

ACUTE HEALTH EFFECTS
INGESTION: Not a normal route of exposure. Harmful if swallowed. Can cause irritation to mouth,
esophagus, stomach, and mucous membranes.
SKIN CONTACT: Corrosive. May cause redness and irritation.
EYE CONTACT: Contact causes redness, irritation, pain, blurred vision, tearing, corneal injury and burns.
INHALATION: Harmful if inhaled. Coughing, headaches, labored breathing, nausea, shortness of breath,
pulmonary edema.
CHRONIC HEALTH EFFECTS
May have effects on lungs, resulting in chronic bronchitis and permanent lung damage (with chronic exposure).
MEDICAL CONDITIONS AGGRAVATED BY EXPOSURE: May aggravate existing skin and respiratory
conditions.

TOXICOLOGY INFORMATION
ACUTE ORAL TOXICITY: No information.
ACUTE DERMAL TOXICITY: No information.
INHALATION EFFECTS: Strong respiratory irritant.
IRRITATION TO SKIN: Irritant. Can give transient pain and redness.
IRRITATION TO EYES: Strong irritant.
SENSITIZATION DATA: No information.
REPRODUCTIVE TOXICITY: Chlorine dioxide did not cause birth defects in laboratory animals, even at
exceptionally high exposure levels.
CARCINOGENICITY: This product does NOT contain compounds known to cause cancer accroding to
NTP, IARC or OSHA.
MUTAGENICITY: Chlorine dioxide did test positive in a small fraction of mutagenesis assays conducted,
however, in a two year mouse bioassay there was no clear evidence of carcinogenicity.
TERATOGENICITY: No information.

All in all, really not that bad. MSDS are, imo, notoriously conservative as to potential health effects.

Originally posted by soficrow

Have you noticed what's happened to peoples' health over the last 70 years? Did you know that there's a chronic disease epidemic - and cancer now is considered a chronic disease?

Most of these diseases have appeared or become common in the last 50-70 years. Long term use is NO indication of safety.

Well, you can tell that to the FDA...

And we can really say there is more cancer 50 years ago then there is now. There wasnt the same means of detection then as there is today. Most cases then were death by "natural" causes.

So your basic assumption is incorrect.

According to this website

www.scorecard.org...

Chlorine Dioxide is fairly hazordous allthough it doesn't make a distinction between the liquid and gasous forms of this substance. Will continue digging, but I suspect that in Liquid form its fairly safe in certain concentrations. If I would use this to kill mould then I would evacuate the house for at least a week just in case it evaporates slowly and it's the Gas that I'm more worried about as even that article rates ingestion risk as Least Hazardous(25 % on the scale)

www.npi.gov.au...-whateffect

What effect might chlorine dioxide have on my health?

Acute health effects : The following acute (short-term) health effects may occur immediately or shortly after exposure to chlorine dioxide: irritate the nose and throat, causing coughing and chest pain; eye irritation with watery eyes and seeing halos around lights; breathing chlorine dioxide can irritate the lungs causing coughing and/or shortness of breath. Higher exposures can cause a build-up of fluid in the lungs (pulmonary oedema), a medical emergency but which might not occur for 24 hours, with severe shortness of breath and possibly death.

Chronic health effects : The following chronic (long-term) health effects can occur at some time after exposure to chlorine dioxide and can last for months or years: irritate the lungs; repeated exposure may cause bronchitis to develop with cough, phlegm, and/or shortness of breath. Permanent lung damage may occur, especially with repeated exposure to the vapours. There is limited evidence that chlorine dioxide may damage the developing foetus.
How might chlorine dioxide enter my body?

The substance can be absorbed into the body by inhalation, ingestion of food that has been treated with chlorine dioxide, or skin contact.

It seems that it's most dangerous when inhaled so avoid the gasous form of this at all costs.

Have you noticed what's happened to peoples' health over the last 70 years? Did you know that there's a chronic disease epidemic - and cancer now is considered a chronic disease?

People are living longer and infant mortality is way down and our medical diagnosis techniques are far superior then it was 70 years ago. The longer people live the more and more chronic illnesses will crop up, it's called aging and lifestyle inertia, and better medical technology that has reduced the rate of infant mortality dramatically has brought children into this world who if we were still a species ruled by Natural Selection they would be dead otherwise due to various deficiencies stemming from multiple causes(nutrition, genetics, environment etc)

Our technology solved lots of problems back in the 50s & 60s but it created more problems that took their place. In the west we no longer worry about Child Mortality rates during birth but about other more cronic lifestyle conditions(Diabetes, Cancer, Emphysima, Bronchitis etc etc) so our technology has adapted to serve that paradigm, eventually we will have another burst of innovation that will solve the problems of today and create more problems for us to mull over tomarrow, it would get boring pretty quickly if we had no problems thats for sure

[edit on 2-12-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by rmatrem

Originally posted by soficrow

Have you noticed what's happened to peoples' health over the last 70 years? Did you know that there's a chronic disease epidemic - and cancer now is considered a chronic disease?

Most of these diseases have appeared or become common in the last 50-70 years. Long term use is NO indication of safety.

Well, you can tell that to the FDA...

And we can really say there is more cancer 50 years ago then there is now.

Absolutely.

There wasnt the same means of detection then as there is today. Most cases then were death by "natural" causes.

So your basic assumption is incorrect.

Cancers are easily identifiable cell changes. The compound microscope was invented in the early 17th century. Prior to the 1950's, virtually every practising doctor had their own labs and ran their own tests - plus, until recently, autopsies were quite common. And everyone was interested in cancer.

Your assumption is incorrect that cancer diagnosis results from recent technological advance.

FYI - the new cancer epidemic is a crisis world wide, and much talked about in the scientific community.


sardion - GREAT research. Thanks. Interesting that the gas form is most dangerous - and also most effective in killing spores.


.

Oh thank GOD!!!!! The mold is probably the worst part of it all.
Though i have to say, you learn a whole hell of a lot about it when you try and salvage your stuff.

Too bad we couldn't get this stuff until like, 4 months after the storm, after many people have just burned down their houses and left.

Oh well.

Nice stuff, this will be a HUGE product down here.

--Kit.