Royal Marines- a disgrace to the British armed forces?

Well, certainly people in Britain should've heard about it.
For people who don't know what I'm talking about, here's a quick summary:

A few days ago, someone had filmed some sort of initiation fight between recruits in the Royal Marine Commandos. The most senior person was a sargent who was wearing a blue surgeons outfit and another NCO (not sure what rank) in a school girls outfit. The recruits were ordered to strip naked, and given roll mats (sleeping mats) to put arounds their arms and took it in turns to fight one another. They were also told to run about in the cold.
One marine tried to complain, but was kicked in the head by the sargent, almost rendering him unconcious.

Bullying in the armed forces?


Personally, the only bit which I'm concerned about is why they were naked and the sagent kicking the recruit in the head. Although that's a disgrace, the actual fighting isn't. I know that the US Marine Corps, as part of their training, have fights with those padded things to control their anger or something.
What do you all think?
(I'm still planning to join the Royal Marines).

I put this in UK politics because it's an issue to do with the armed forces but not with war.

There have been several members of my family in the British armed forces and I have pride in that.

This however is a (totally gay) disgrace.

I have absolutely no prejudice against gay people but it's worth remembering that many of these supposedly 'straight' tough guys have only recently been protesting and complaining about (the claimed aweful effects of) gays being 'allowed' into the British military!

You couldn't make it up, huh?

Python got it spot on 30yrs ago -



Anyone recall the song?

Oooh get her! Whoops!
I've got your number ducky.
You couldn't afford me, dear. Two three.
I'd scratch your eyes out.

Don't come the brigadier bit with us, dear,
We all know where you've been, you military fairy!

Whoops, don't look now girls,
The major's just minced in
With that dolly colour sergeant,
Two, three, ooh-ho!

[edit on 29-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

How could we ever forget Monty Python?

Didn't the Soviets execute gay men who were in the army?
I'm not sure if being gay has anything to do with this, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Sargents sick fantasy or something.
At school people have a go at me for being gay (even though I'm not) for wanting to join the army and being in cadets. Then I tell them that without us our country would constantly be ruined by foreign invaders, that usually gets the right wing ones.

Originally posted by mashup
I'm not sure if being gay has anything to do with this, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Sargents sick fantasy or something.

- That's about the size of it IMO.
IMO it's a clear sign of some very repressed guys given a little power and acting out their suspicious 'more masculine/macho than thou' fantasies.

Like the Church, if you want a life where you may mostly avoid women the army is an obvious choice, even if an actual admission of being gay is something they can never come to admit.
All boys together and all that.
I suppose it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that this kind of thing goes on.

At school people have a go at me for being gay (even though I'm not) for wanting to join the army and being in cadets. Then I tell them that without us our country would constantly be ruined by foreign invaders, that usually gets the right wing ones.

- Quite right matey.
There's nothing wrong about serving and protecting your own.
There's nothing wrong with being gay either.

On the other hand there really is something seriously dubious about blokes who go in for this power-trip S&M abusive kind of stuff.
The question of assault depends upon a charge being brought. Unlikely, I suppose.

Thankfully (I hope) this kind of thing isn't that typical.

(My relatives have mentioned severe hardship and some very very tough times but never anything like this type of pervy carry on.)


[edit on 29-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Much worse things happen in the SAS as part of their counter interrogation tactics training.

There's no doubt about that mashup; the enormous difference being the intention and that there is also a distinct and serious point to anti-interrogation training.

This 'performance' is nothing like the same thing.

Today at school for a really tough CCF competition, we had to do wrestling. We weren't allowed to stand up and just had to pin our oppenent. It's about as dangerous as what the Marines were doing, as they had protection. The reason we did it, was that it was to channel our anger and learn to use it effectively.

Bloody hell. I was thinking of joining the army, but now I dunno. Is it common practice for the army to do it, or is it just confined to the Royal Marines?

Originally posted by MacDonagh
or is it just confined to the Royal Marines?

- I have heard it is a Marine thing.

On the other hand each branch of the army/forces has its' traditions'.

(Research a 'regimental bath' for a cruel, sick and twisted practise.)

The army does indeed have a problem with this sort of thing (and I doubt it is just confined to the British Army).
It's kept quite (mostly) but every time this kind of nonsense comes out it is putting potential quality recruits off.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Worse things happen in the SAS though with their counter-interrogation training. They are hunted down in a forest by Parachute Regiment members and some TA people, when caught they're beaten sh!tless as part of a mock interrogation.

Personally, I'm not concerned with this Royal Marine thing. The only concern I have in fact is their reputation. I feel the media has blown something out of proportion due to nothing else really happening.

I dont see why this incident would disgrace the whole forces. Hell, I really dont see what the problem is, honestly. I mean, granted, it sure LOOKS gay and disturbing. But if you find it shocking, you obviously have no clue just the extent military mind training goes.

Ive seen far worse in the US army. Not involving naked dudes wrestling, though Im sure there is plenty of that. But I know some very dangerous and painful rituals go on.

I think the only disturbing thing is the fact they video taped it. I mean, what is wrong with the armed forces today? Ten eyars ago when i was in no one in their right friggin mind would be caught anywhere near a photographic or video device while engaged in something that could land you in a court martial. Now, it seems soldiers from both countries are trigger happy with deviance!

That disturbs me most of all.

As a serving member of HM forces .
The real reason they had to let you be gay in the army. It had become an easy way to get out . Many people want to get out of the Army and in years gone by no one would have dared say they were gay to get out .But in todays modern climate it would be treated as a laugh to say your gay as a quick and easy way to leave the army .

With respect , I know 3 members serving in the RM.
2 close friends and one family member (was and still is a close friend until he married into my family) I havent heard them say anything about these in all the years I've known them...

Doesnt that strike you as a little odd?

Ps, I certainly dont see the RM as a disgrace to the british armed forces...anyone who does IMO doesnt know them.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Hazing seems too be apart of just about every armed forces in the world to one degree or another. The USMC has had chronic problems with hazing as well as sexual misconduct. I read in the economist of the terrible conditions faced by Russian recruits and conscripts. I'm not sure why guys like to kick the crap out of each other especially with what it can do to morale in the unit.

This is one of those really dangerous things about being elite. It can go to your head, hazing can and in plenty of cases does occur, and because you are an elite force and your members share in the glory of their past heritage, there's no acting surprised when your failures and embarassments are similarly branded on the whole force.

There is no singular form of the word Marines. Marine is just an adjective. When you associate so strongly with your heritage, when you fight to the death side by side, it only follows that you're going to be painted with the same brush. The RMC just ought to know better . Not that it doesn't happen to everyone, but that's not an excuse for elites.

Originally posted by mashup
Although that's a disgrace, the actual fighting isn't. I know that the US Marine Corps, as part of their training, have fights with those padded things to control their anger or something.

If you're referring to pugil sticks, we actually don't do that to control our anger. That's bayonett training. The top side of the pugil stick is considered a bayonette, the other end is the butt of your rifle. The objective is to learn how to engage and kill an enemy using your weapon in a capacity other than as a firearm, and make sure than if you ever actually have to do it, that the enemy isn't going to have any luck stopping you from caving his skull in.
I

Royal Marines. A disgrace? no way shape or form. Yes they are hard, yes they are tough, and some times they can appear to civilians as 'brutal'.

What we all must remember is that the training and development of a Royal marine is to produce an exceptionaly trained commando, who has the Corp and its history at the front of his mind at all times. If the Royal marines training wasn't so hard and long, do you think that the SBS (special forces made entirely of Royal Marines) would be so good?

Lets not judge them for a training incident, lets judge them on their results!

Hi guys,

when this came out I just laughed my arse off; it looked just like those rugger boys on a weekend away!

I didn't see one Green Beret in attendance. Therefore they were obviously not on official duties representing the UK armed forces. When can these elite fighting men let their hair down? Do they have to be in uniform 24/7/265.25 or can they get some down-time for fun and games/team-building??

RM's were not complaining of brutality; too pissed to notice probably!

Good Luck to all RM's, they serve they UK well and ask for very little in return.


Regards

J

If you think there's never been gay people in the army before they were 'officially allowed' or that gay people haven't fought and died for your freedoms down the years then you need do more research.

It's not recent, it's not limited to some units, it's not a UK thing - it's an Army thing. And as for the Navy......

If you are planning to join up then get over it - there are bigger and worse things to deal with.

I wish I could find the source; I think I might have read it in a book called Making the Corps- if this thread still draws viewers, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff that used to go on in the USMC.

I recall reading somewhere about a recruit being ordered to put a part of his anatomy into the action of his rifle and run back and forth across the squad bay. -don't fall-!!! lol

Or google the Ribbon Creek Incident...

Like I said before, hazing happens, and its a sad fact that in top notch forces that value their heritage, the actions of one are the actions of all in a sense. Even still, this stuff actually isn't nearly as provokative as things that have happened in the past.

This is just sort of what happens when a large group of Type-A personalities has too much time and not enough women on its hands.

Some of the older stuff though... well some of that was almost cultish. As Thoreau said, "Visit the navy yard and see a Marine... such a man as an American Government can make with its black arts."