Battlefield Radiation - DU Vet: 'My Days Are Numbered'

I found some Interesting Articles on BBC News Site.


What I found scary in this Article is the Following Statement:

In Dr Rokke's view, DU munitions are too effective for their owners to surrender them. He cites a 1992 letter from the assistant secretary for the US Army. It says: "DU is fully supported by the Army as an item that gives the American soldier the winning edge on the modern battlefield. No matter what we found and what we wrote", we could not disrupt the decision to use DU munitions in combat."

DU is too Precious for the Army to stop using it. It is too EFFECTIVE and too CHEAP for the Army to Launch a full Medical Investigation, which will ofcourse, end with the Closing of the DU-Project.



A Question: IF the DU is SO Harmelss, why are these Men then in Full Bio-Chem Outift, taking samples from tanks in Kosovo?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....

I suggest the Following Links from BBC:

Depleted Uranium Fears
Radiation from DU 'could act rapidly'
Depleted uranium: the lingering poison
Message from the Special Assistant for Gulf War Illnesses
DU Info Page

I know these "News" are kind of Old Date, but I think they are still effective.

Originally posted by Souljah
Go tell that to the Veterans that are Sick and have 8-times as much Toxic Uranium in their Bodies then any other person.

If that was the best reply that you could come back with, then Allah be with you.

At any rate, the discussion continues with counter and counter-like evidences.
Cool.
Discussion should always be an open-minded matter, where all information is objectively researched and read to gain a total picture, huh, Souljah? Or is simply an agenda-driven matter for you, in that no amount of information contrary to yours will suffice or be worthy of meriting your eyes to objectively glean over? Probably one reason why a number of us call your propaganda and agenda-driven topics for what they are, eh, Souljah?

In the past, I have provided a sufficient number of sources and evidences to counter those that you continually put forth.
As for the ones that you have put forth as further damning evidence, allow this commentary, posted on 26-7-2005 at 09:59 PM Post Number: 1565629 (post id: 1587522), to act counter: 6 links from the World Health Organization (WHO), AIM.org, European Parliament 2001 Report, RAND, and FAS, among others:
posted on 26-7-2005 at 09:59 PM Post Number: 1565629 (post id: 1587522)

Who is the BBC when compared to the likes of WHO, RAND, etc?






seekerof

Btw, Souljah, your link to the Office of the Special Assistant for the Gulf War Illnesses article does not ever mention the word 'DU' or 'depleted uranium.' Do you read the stuff you link to and/or source?

However, it does mention:

The letters are intended to provide new information to all veterans whose units may have been exposed to very low levels of chemical warfare agent resulting from the demolition of munitions at Khamisiyah.

No DU involved here, Souljah.
A little researching on your part will explain what the operations at Khamisiyah were fully.
demolition of munitions at Khamisiyah

Your Office of the Special Assistant for the Gulf War Illnesses article also mentions, again:

In late July, the American Journal of Public Health published the Institute of Medicine Medical Follow up Agency's results of a mortality study of U.S. Army personnel who were exposed to low levels of chemical warfare agents following demolition operations at Khamisiyah, Iraq in 1991.

Go on to say:

Study authors state in the report that "neither sarin nor cyclosarin are known carcinogens" and neither have been shown to cause cancer, including studies done on laboratory animals.

The results of this study should be regarded as preliminary. Further investigation is necessary because sarin and cyclosarin have never been shown to cause cancer and this study only evaluated deaths during the first nine years after this possible exposure. The Department of Veterans Affairs is continuing to conduct death rate studies of all Gulf War veterans. These results should help to clarify the long-term health outcomes of Gulf War veterans, including those linked to the Khamisiyah demolition.

DU is mentioned where, exactly, Souljah? :shk:
You spreading manure, again?





seekerof

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
As for the ones that you have put forth as further damning evidence, allow this commentary, posted on 26-7-2005 at 09:59 PM Post Number: 1565629 (post id: 1587522), to act counter: 6 links from the World Health Organization (WHO), AIM.org, European Parliament 2001 Report, RAND, and FAS, among others:
posted on 26-7-2005 at 09:59 PM Post Number: 1565629 (post id: 1587522)

Hey Seeker - you know I'm always up for a Good D-Bate!
But I guess my "monotonous Anti-American, Pro-Terrorists Crap" is getting too boring for you and others like you, huh?
Still, I am glad you have posted this link to your thread called,

Sandia Depleted Uranium Study: No Serious Health Risks Found

I enjoyed it yes - especially the Replay from mister AceofBase, when he was still a Voice of Reason:

Wanna read Post Number: 1565538 (post id: 1587431)?

Is it the same Sandia National Labs described below?

en.wikipedia.org...

Sandia National Laboratories is a major United States Department of Energy research and development national laboratory with two locations, one in Albuquerque, New Mexico and the other in Livermore, California. Its primary mission is to develop, engineer, and test the non-nuclear components of nuclear weapons. Its main secured campus is ~4.4 square miles (11 km2) and is located on Kirtland Air Force Base.

Sandia's primary mission is to implement the nation's nuclear weapon policies through research, development, and testing related to nuclear weapons. This includes maintaining the reliability and surety of nuclear weapon systems, performing research and development in arms control and nonproliferation technologies, and contributing solutions to the problem of hazardous wastes resulting from the nuclear weapons program.

This sounds like Phillip Morris saying that there's no proof that smoking causes lung cancer..

And RIGHT he was.

As I have stated in my post above yours, the Military Complex can NOT afford to LOOSE the DU-Project, because it is too Valuable and too Effective for them. They would have to slaughter the Golden-Egg-Laying-Hen, and they do not wanna do that. It's pretty simple when you look at it that way. Thats why you can find all sorts of Reports Denying the Harm that DU does to Human Body.

But here one more Problem arises: DU is a relatively New Weapon Technology, meaning that the Long Term effect on Human Body can not be Research so far, since it has been barely 15 years since it was used First.

No matter what the REAL Effect is, bottom line is that the Army will Defend its little DU-Baby Until the End, just like Phillip Morris will defend Tobacco Industry and Nokia will defend GSM's.

Its all Business Today, 'member Seeker?

I truly Wonder how would your stance change, if you have gotten sick over something, like ANOK did - would you still defend with such determination?

Sorry, but I will take word from BBC over RAND anyday and Twice on Sundays!

The RAND Corporation is an American think tank first formed to offer research and analysis to the U.S. military. The organization has since expanded to working with other governments and commercial organizations.

HEY - did you know that Rummy, Connie and Libby are Notable RAND participants?

How CONVENIENT.





[edit on 1/12/05 by Souljah]

[sarcasm]Sure.... there is not a problem with DU..in fact it's good for ya !

Surely all these people are just.....a bunch of whining liberals [/sarcasm]

When I get the time, I am going to spank you on this issue.
Get your ducks in a row.
You, yourself, have no clue or idea to that which you speak and refer to.
All you can do is pull info from some anti-war site or from other members who have made comments in other like topics.
How original and researched you are on this issue, huh?

I got a class to asst. teach, but I will get back with you on this, be assured.
Stop using others to make your case. Besides, how about get AceOfBase and yourself together and find that research, reports, and studies that show conclusively that Sandia National Labs is simply bogus on what they spent nearly two years conclusively and scientifically studying. Amazing how such scientific work can be dismissed when it does not fit into your self-styled and others agendas, and yet, openly and hypocritically accept other scientific analysis done?

What a load....:shk:
We are Denying what here, allegedly?
I see...."how convenient".......





seekerof

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by XyZeR
[sarcasm]Sure.... there is not a problem with DU..in fact it's good for ya !

Surely all these people are just.....a bunch of whining liberals [/sarcasm]

About as much so as Sandia Lab, WHO, the European Parliament, RAND, etc, huh?





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Btw, Souljah, your link to the Office of the Special Assistant for the Gulf War Illnesses article does not ever mention the word 'DU' or 'depleted uranium.' Do you read the stuff you link to and/or source?

Hmmm... So, do You actually READ the Links I provide, or do you just Rammble on without any prior knowledge? You know there is a little button on the Left that says DEPLETED URANIUM, and you CAN click it you know?

And there is also another Link, called Environmental Exposure Reports (on the Top, Third form the Left), containing the following topic regarding DU:
Depleted Uranium in the Gulf I
Depleted Uranium in the Gulf II
Impact of Laboratory Performance of Urine Uranium Analyses on Exposure Evaluations for Gulf War Veterans
Depleted Uranium Fact Sheet
DU Library

Is that Better, Sir?

This is something that actually for the Veterans who have medical problems:
WHERE TO GET HELP

DU is mentioned where, exactly, Souljah? :shk:
You spreading manure, again?

You DO know how to read, right?

You Insulting me, Again OHMIGHTYSEEKER?

:shk:

[edit on 1/12/05 by Souljah]

ANOK,
I wonder that if you have taken into consideration that my Dad worked as an USAF medical surgeon (neurosurgery) in Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm and Shield before accusing me of Ignorance?
The statements I have made on ATS are based on what I gathered from him.

Originally posted by ANOK
There is nothing wrong with my calcium absorbsion, if there was I would have LOW levels in my system!

As I've said, it can also be because of environmental factors or even genetic factors. Plus their are many people who have gotten Osteoporosis who are below 50 and live in an environment that is conducive to Osteo, they are just not widely publicized but they are there. Most people dont even realize that they have Osteoporosis until it is severe. It depends a lot on what you put into your bones in your childhood right through the 20's.
It is not some freak phenomena that people below 50 have Osteoporosis, their numbers are just very low compared to the people above 50 who have them, the number of cases for women below 50 who have Osteoporosis is higher than men because men have greater bone density.
From what I have come to know the DoD has instituted a study for GW syndrome. Another one was done by the British and both have found that their are too many symptoms to be just one cause and the whole GWI is a cumulation of all the effects of your duties and the exposure during the GW. Medically, the symptoms dont indicate any pathogen or observable abnormality that can be attributed to this or that.
If it can be then it would be easily visible to both civilian and military doctors because medical science is primarily civilian based.

The vaccines were not for our safety, they were experimental, not FDA aproved. I'm not trying to make a conspiricy here. It's a proven fact, do some damn research before you make an idiot of yourself.

It is you who have made a Fool out of yourself here. It is clearly stated that the immunizations were for botulism, anthrax and other bio-weapons that Saddam possessed. The vaccines were mandatory and were given to all of the troops that were sent in during Storm and Shield. Also the vaccines were not experimental, because all experimental testing is done in the US before the vaccines are sent to approval stage in the military, that is common knowledge, ask any senior officer in the medical units.
FDA you say? What did you think you were in? The Merchant Navy??
The military doesn’t need certification from the FDA from its inoculations, they are for the military and are meant to act immediately and powerfully, sometimes they have side effects, that’s the way they are. Besides, the FDA would never allow half the inoculations that the military has with it, that doesn’t mean that the DoD would send troops into War unprotected, especially where bio-weapons are present.
Here's the statement from the DoD that you want.

From the DoD
* It is widely believed in medical circles that the multiple vaccines given to all military personnel who served in the Gulf area are not the source of illnesses in some Gulf War veterans.

* The Presidential Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veteran's Illnesses said in its final report: "Individual vaccines can cause adverse effects, but several studies of the effects of giving multiple vaccinations at one time have found no adverse effects associated with the practice. Research on this issue continues, but based on available evidence, the Committee believes it is unlikely that multiple vaccines are responsible for illnesses reported today by Gulf War veterans."

* A number of other research projects have likewise concluded that most vaccines can be safely administered simultaneously.

* Studies have been conducted on special operations soldiers stationed at Fort Bragg who were initially vaccinated during the Gulf War. The soldiers were observed over a three day period after receiving a booster immunization with anthrax or anthrax and botulinum vaccines. There were no clinically significant reactions or lost duty time associated with the vaccinations.

* As with any vaccination, some people experience a mild local reaction to the anthrax vaccine. Such a reaction can be redness in the area of the immunization, muscle aches and even nausea.

No the vaccines were not recorded, and the vets who got the shots medical records have misterialy disapeared. I wonder why

That's exactly what I said, that the records were not made and thus mix-ups could have happened. The medical records were supposedly not made because nobody was ordered to make any record of the vaccines. Also nearly 150,000 people needed to be vaccinated in a couple of weeks.

How would we be seeing deformed babies everywhere? In my city there are only about half a dozen cases of GWI, non of us have had children.

Lets see, 150,000 troops vaccinated. How many kids could their be ??
Think about it !

And if it's all in our heads, how come we've all got the same freakin symptoms?

I though Fatigue was a symptom ? The symptoms you've described are not all common, of the 150,000 troops American plus the British etc who were innoculated many have had no reaction at all. Very few have had these symptoms and that too each person has something different, though all of them complain of faituge, muscle pain etc etc. The Osteoporosis on the other hand is also not universal and some people have the GWI without that. So what is this "same freaking symptoms" ?
Here's some more of the research you have obviously forgotten to do:

From a Scientific Study by the Institute of Molecular Medicine
MULTIFACTORIAL ILLNESSES OF THE GULF WAR

Although press reports often refer to illnesses associated with the PGW as Gulf War Syndrome, there is growing awareness that GWI is a not a unique, new syndrome. First, all GWI patients do not have identical signs and symptoms(5,6). GWI appears to be a diverse collection of overlapping, persisting signs and symptoms from which several syndromes have been identified (3-6). Early reports found no common illness among veterans, or specific cause for GWI (1), but since then, subsets of GWI patients have been defined by several groups.

Jeez even the governments admits now that it's real. People have gone to the brig for refusing the Anthrax shots...

Wrong, people have gone to the brig for not following a direct order, if it was during WW2 they would have been shot, so the brig is a pretty good deal wouldnt you say ?
All I am trying to say is, all the vets who have claimed GWi need not necessarily suffer from the GWI, I never said that it doesn’t exist. All I've said is that many people who dont have GWI may think that they have it because of all the hype around it, which is quite possible. Also I realize that GWI is very debilitating, it might be partly due to the vaccines but it has not been established as yet what exactly is the cause or if GWI is just one illness or a mixture of many illnesses so no one can judge that this or that is the cause and by doing so people are merely causing more harm than good for GWI.
I repeat I have never said that GWI doesn’t exist.


[edit on 3-12-2005 by IAF101]

Good luck Souljah, people are in denial. I have a thread running on DU and you should see some of the replies I got...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
There are people out there that truly think that DU is completely harmless.

Um, no......twitchy.
DU is not "completely harmless", but neither is it what you, Souljah, and others make it out to be.

Both sides of this argument/debate have presented credible sourcings and evidences, and as such, I find it ludicrous to assert that those who do not buy into your or Souljah's, or others line of 'reason and rhyme' or considered "in denial". Definately a brilliant way of saying that your side of the argument is more valid or is correct than those who have presented counter-arguments and evidences, because if "you do not believe what we are saying," you will be stereotypically labeled: "in denial", or worse, huh? :shk:






seekerof

[edit on 3-12-2005 by Seekerof]

So it's ok to irradiate civilian populations Seekerof? Christ man, you really are towing the line. The Background radiation levels on urban combat zones in both Iraq and Bosnia is thousands of times normal seekerof, thousands of times the normal levels. I don't know about you, but that disturbs alot of people who have a basic understanding of radiology and it's effects. We have been studying the weaponization of depleted uranium as an intentional contaminate since the 40's dude, they knew good and damned well what effect it would have on civilian populations long before they used it.

Originally posted by twitchy
We have been studying the weaponization of depleted uranium as an intentional contaminate since the 40's dude, they knew good and damned well what effect it would have on civilian populations long before they used it.

Your point being ?
It is War, not a march past. People die in War and will continue to die as long as hostilites continue. As long your enemy keeps shooting, you shoot back.
If DU was really that harmfull as you claim, all the people who used it should have died on the battlefield.

Don't put words in my mouth, twitchy.
I have effectively expressed my comments concerning this topic, on multiple occasions and in a variety of topics on this issue of DU.

Having said that, and having mentioned what I did in the post above, you need to move from attacking and insinuating, that those who have contrary opinion and proofs/evidences are "in denial," to something that will allow further constructive discussion on this matter and issue.

Christ man, you really are towing the line.

You may deem it as you so see fit to describe such, but as previously mentioned, there have been legitimate, valid, and credible sourcings and evidences presented by both sides. Choose to read both sides of the issue or simply stick with the one side you have chosen to adhere to, k?

I don't know about you, but that disturbs alot of people who have a basic understanding of radiology and it's effects.

Apparently not or at least not to the magnitude that you so claim it has, as indicated by the counter sourcings and evidences presented.

We have been studying the weaponization of depleted uranium as an intentional contaminate since the 40's dude, they knew good and damned well what effect it would have on civilian populations long before they used it.

You know, I grow weary in presenting further valid and credible sourcings to counter this, as has already been presented in a variety of topics and discussions related to DU and/or this matter and issue. You can join an activism group on this for all I care. The sources 'for' and 'against' have credibly presented and represent both sides of the argument. The issue of DU will undoubtedly continue on for quite some time, with or without further imput from you or I. I have chosen to let the sourcings presented for both sides of this debate speak for themselves from here on out. To continue to debate this issue or matter is like following circle logic; the debate simply goes round and round with neither side reaching any type agreement. It is senseless to continue such redundancy.





seekerof

[edit on 3-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by IAF101
It is you who have made a Fool out of yourself here. It is clearly stated that the immunizations were for botulism, anthrax and other bio-weapons that Saddam possessed. The vaccines were mandatory and were given to all of the troops that were sent in during Storm and Shield.

WRONG, the vaccines were not given to ALL deployed units, only a select few got them during the first Gulf War. The vaccines were untested and were experimental. Anthrax being the most dangerous followed by botulism.

www.autoimmune.com...

I don't take anything "officialy" release by the government as proof that the vaccines are not causing our illnesses, sorry. They have a vested interest in denying it.
Also they don't explain how troops who got the vaccines but didn't deploy GOT SICK. It doesn't explain how ppl like me who were on a ship, didn't touch land but GOT SICK...

The government now excepts certain "symptoms" as caused by Gulf War service for service connected compensation.

Chronic fatigue
Joint pains
Muscle pains
Skin disorders/rashes
Nuerological problems
Depression/Anxiety

There's a couple more I forget right now. Those are your same "freakin symptoms"...Common too all GWI vets. Then there are the more unique ones that are just showing up such as Osteo, Lou Gerricks.
Osteo is not seen too much cause it's very rarely checked for in men.
Mine was found by accident by a doctor who was paying attention. There are probably thousands of vets with Osteo that don't know it. They will when they break something.
People who have Osteo have low vitimin D and calcium levels, except Gulf War Vets who have it!!

That is why the gov now gives us GW vets disability pay for illnesses they can find no biological reason for.

It's an auto-imune problem, so our immune system is attacking our bodies causing many symptoms on top of the common ones that we all "freakin have"

The medical records were supposedly not made because nobody was ordered to make any record of the vaccines.

Total BS, all vaccines you receive are supposed to be recorded on your shot card. They don't need to be ordered to do it, it's procedure. The military gives thousands of shots every day, it wasn't a problem of not having time.

Wrong, people have gone to the brig for not following a direct order, if it was during WW2 they would have been shot, so the brig is a pretty good deal wouldnt you say ?

NO I don't think it's a good deal. Put yourself in their shoes. When I got the shots we didn't know what it was, we weren't told.
When the truth started to leak out, including all the truth about side effects, can you blaim ppl for refusing?
They weren't refusing an order, they were refusing to have their bodies injected with something that might make them sick.
It was mostly women, concerned about the health of their future children.
In fact now it's not mandatory to get the shots.

Why do ppl have to make excuses for government? Why are those that are the result of government unethical actions the ones that have to explain themselves all the time.
We're sick, many more are getting sick. This is just the start of it. It's wrong however you try to justify it.

[edit on 3/12/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
WRONG, the vaccines were not given to ALL deployed units, only a select few got them during the first Gulf War.

When I say-"all troops" I mean all the forward deployed units. YOu may not be in the know but this is what happened. CENTCOM did issue a directive that all units in forward positions especially in Riyadh, Dhahran-Damman, King Khalid Military City (KKMC), Logistics Bases A/B/C/D/E, Headquarters VII Corps and XVIII Airborne Corps, 1st Cavalry Division, and Bahrain were to be vaccinated.
Also the botulism vaccines were given to very few compared to the anthrax vaccines which was administered in the thousands. Another point is, the DoD claims that out of the 700,000 troops nearly 150,000 troops had been vaccinated with the Anthrax and nearly 8000 with the botulims vaccines. If the numbers are so large it can hardly be called as selective as entire units were vaccinated not just one person or a few from each unit.
link
Information Paper

I don't take anything "officialy" release by the government as proof that the vaccines are not causing our illnesses, sorry. They have a vested interest in denying it.

Well thats really too bad, because if its okay to take the word of website that is most probably run in someones basement than an official one that is backed by evidence and can be cross checked, not to mention the transperency of the investigation. If you did read the official version you may get a better picture of what GWI is instead of the blatant dis-information that is passed by the disgruntled few. Another point is even when the first GWI cases appeared and then Bush Sr was gone the DoD under the Clinton admin said pretty much the same thing as before for the next 10 years, why would either sides have the same vested interests ?

Those are your same "freakin symptoms"...Common too all GWI vets.

Wrong, all those symptoms are not universally present in every single GWI case, the Insitute of Molecular Medicine has proved that already. The Govt has listed some of these symptoms that are generaly present in people with GWI. Like, one person with GWI has Chronic Fatigue and skin rash while another might have Depression and joint pains and yet another might have all the symptoms, it isnt a set list.

That is why the gov now gives us GW vets disability pay for illnesses they can find no biological reason for.

The Govt gives you disability pay because you are suffering and your suffering is caused by your service in the military. They are NOT giving you money to keep you quiet or to make people stop talking about GWI.

They don't need to be ordered to do it, it's procedure.

The Anthrax and the Botulism viruses were not part of the standard vaccinations that are generally given like the measles etc that are recorded in the individual shot card, they were issued on priority basis to the forward units. The supply of these vaccines was also in short supply because of the DoD couldnt get enough for all the troops required, so CENTCOM decided to give the vaccines to units that would most likely face them. So it may seem that only some people were selected for this but that is not the case.

They weren't refusing an order, they were refusing to have their bodies injected with something that might make them sick.
It was mostly women, concerned about the health of their future children.

Thats BS, when in the military your duty is to do what is told, if they ask you to jump into a mind field- you do it, no opinions and no questions. Granted that now the troops have a choice, it still doesnt make disobeing orders something to condone. From what I read on the official site they say that the troops were 'recommended' to have the vaccines but what I was told was that they were 'ordered' to take them.
As for the part about mostly women, the number of women who were vaccinated was very very few compared to the number of men, because the bulk of it was for the infantry units.

Why do ppl have to make excuses for government? Why are those that are the result of government unethical actions the ones that have to explain themselves all the time.

They say that during the GW Saddam had readied two biological agents for use, one with anthrax and the other with aflatoxin for which their is NO vaccine. Had Saddam decided to use those weapons during the war we may have had a completely different discussion !!
link

Originally posted by twitchy
Good luck Souljah, people are in denial. I have a thread running on DU and you should see some of the replies I got...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
There are people out there that truly think that DU is completely harmless.

I Hear Ya twichy.

DU is a PERFECT material for Ammunitions and the Army sure will not start to Critisize it. DU is very Effective and VERY Cheap to make - the Human Cost is simply not Relevant and is not included in the Equation. The cost of Civilan Lives and the Radioactive Effect on Human Body is NOT relevant here - only the Effectiveness of the Weapon is Important.

And ofcourse the "Devils Advocates" of the US Military are always here to Protect and Defend the DU Ammo. Ain't it Ironic that none of them has gotten sick of this Material? I wonder how their "Voice of Reason" would change, if they got sick of DU-Syndrome...

Originally posted by sobolwolf
Why don't all the vets with the symptoms organise a huge rally - from what I have heard, there are thousands of vets with GWS (or whatever they are calling it). Plan a march on the white house, they cannot ignore you then - march right up to the gates and site there until you get results.

-sw

Oh, yes, they can and DO ignore war protesters, then they arrest them.

Originally posted by soficrow
Sorry to hear of your problems Anok. It's not easy - but we're behind you.

Just wanted to second that. I feel so bad for the people that our government has taken advantage of without regard to their future. I am so sorry. And don't let the nay-sayers bother you. They interpret revealing something like this as a direct attack on Mother, God, Home and Apple Pie, but most of us know better.

Originally posted by Seekerof
When I get the time, I am going to spank you on this issue.
seekerof

Promises, promises...

Originally posted by IAF101

Well thats really too bad, because if its okay to take the word of website that is most probably run in someones basement than an official one that is backed by evidence and can be cross checked, not to mention the transperency of the investigation.

I am NOT taking the word of a web site. I only link to sites because that's all I have here, I can't invite you to meet my doctor or my AMVETS rep now can I.
What I know comes from being around GW vets, or the guys running the GW research project etc...Then I look for that info on the web so other ppl can see it too. Most of those links are official organisations, not kids in basements.
Where as you are just linking to government sanctioned sites, and can no way verify what they are saying, can you?

Wrong, all those symptoms are not universally present in every single GWI case, the Insitute of Molecular Medicine has proved that already.

Those are the MOST COMMON EXCEPTED symptoms, jeez I didn't say everybody had them (Go look up the governments list of allowed symptoms for GWI military connected disability payments) but MOST have some or all of them...I myself have ALL of them and every GW vet who's sick that I have met has at least 90% of them. And as I've said we all have our own unique unexplainable symptoms as well.

The Govt gives you disability pay because you are suffering and your suffering is caused by your service in the military. They are NOT giving you money to keep you quiet or to make people stop talking about GWI.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. The reason the gov is giving us disability for unexplainable symptoms is cause they know why we're getting them. Nothing to do with us keeping quiet, I didn't say that!
The gov knows our service is causing illnesses that have no explanation for, Osteo, Lou Gerricks etc...

so CENTCOM decided to give the vaccines to units that would most likely face them. So it may seem that only some people were selected for this but that is not the case.

BS again, I was not part of a forward unit, NAVY, we were in the Red Sea...
People who didn't even deploy were given these vaccines!
Sorry but again another case of government whitewash to cover their asses.

Thats BS, when in the military your duty is to do what is told, if they ask you to jump into a mind field- you do it, no opinions and no questions.

Thats BS too, you ever been in the military? You think it's that black and white.
If I was told to go jump in a minefield I would have said screw you and I would have been in the right to do so. Unlawfull order!
I guess it's easier to justify this by saying "you volunteered" or "It was an order"...Well the Germans running the concentration camps said the same thing, but guess what? They were still prosecuted for war crimes.

Had Saddam decided to use those weapons during the war we may have had a completely different discussion !!

Would it really? You mean those that are sick now would have died quicker?
Or it would have justified using us as lab rats?
Or maybe we were just lied to again, and there were no chemical weopons?

[edit on 4/12/2005 by ANOK]

Hey IAF101,

Lets Check your 4 Links you posted to add to this Debate:

www.gulflink.osd.mil...
www.gulflink.osd.mil...
www.defenselink.mil...
www.gulflink.osd.mil...

That is like Philip Morris saying that, Tobacco does not killmore than 400,000 people every year. But HEY, they are just selling their PRODUCT, and ofcourse they want to keep a Good Name.

So does the Military - they are selling a Good Product, in fact a GREAT product will "Little" Side Effects on Humans.

But what do they Care - the GDP goes Up.

And when a Patient is Diagnosed with Cancer - the GDP goes up.

And when Trees in the Rainforrest Fall and will not grow back in 1000 Years - the GDP goes up.