Happiness is a Warm Gun

the 8th of december will be the 24th anniversary of john lennons death.
on october 5th 2004 mark david chapman was refused parole for this killing.

was mark chapman a victim of mind-control? or was he just a nut?

the 3 psychiatrists called by chapmans attorney (jonathon marks) to verify chapmans 'insanity' certainly seem to point toward the involvement of a hidden hand.

dr. milton kline: cia consultant, one time president of the american society for clinical and experimental hypnosis. kline once boasted that he was capable of creating a hypnotically-driven patsy in 3 months, a mind controlled assassin in 6.

dr. bernard diamond: coming from the university of california in berkley(uc berkley has been very active in illicit mind control experimentation for many decades). diamond was one of the psychiatrists that testified to the insanity of sirhan sirhan. sirhan told dr. eduard simson-kallas that he did not trust diamond. "Whatever strange behavior I showed in court was the result of my outrage over Dr. Diamond's and other doctors' testimony. They were saying things about me that were grossly untrue, nor did I give them permission to testify on my behalf in court"- sirhan sirhan

dr. daniel schwartz: director of forensic psychiatry at king's county medical centre in new york. schwartz examined david 'son of sam' berkowitz. just as in chapmans case schwartz stated that berkowitz believed he had been commanded by 'demons' to kill. berkowitz, it has come out, was far from insane.

any input would be appreciated.



[edit on 27-11-2005 by Nagell]

Well if he was a mind controlled assassain, Why Lennon? Why not someone of greater influance like the President.

skeleton key

seen that movie?

It's going to be the 25th anniversary of Lenon's death, not the 24th.

I have no doubts that Chapman was a mental case. He was obsessed with Lennon and Salinger's book and he couldn't handle adulthood. He stalked, he planned, and he killed. Case closed.

EDIT: I use the term "mental case" lightly here. The guy may just be really weird, but that does not change the fact that he's an obsessive killer. In any case, what I mean is that he is single-handedly responsible for Lennon's death.

Zip

[edit on 11/28/2005 by Zipdot]

Wasn't it Lennon that said the "Beatles were more popular than Christ"?

He said that the Beatles were "bigger than Jesus." This affected Chapman because at the time, he was a devout Christian and I believe that this was the first time that he saw Lennon as someone who betrayed him.

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot
He said that the Beatles were "bigger than Jesus." This affected Chapman because at the time, he was a devout Christian and I believe that this was the first time that he saw Lennon as someone who betrayed him.

Zip

Thank you sir. Then Lennon got what is big mouth had set in motion.

PS: Gig'em aggies texas person

Originally posted by Zipdot
It's going to be the 25th anniversary of Lenon's death, not the 24th

sorry about that, a little typo.

the fbi had a 288 (at least) page file on lennon. lennnon was brought to the attention of hoover in january 1969. a demonstration had occurred at new haven, connecticut due to the suspension of the campus newspaper after they published nude photos of john and yoko (reprints from the back cover of 'two virgins'). even though the album (that the photos came from) was available in record stores across the country.

in 1972 the cia began keeping tabs on lennon. lennon was very vocal on the subject of vietnam. he was seen as one of the most effective forces in rallying american youth in opposition to the war. lennon was a financial supporter of YES (organization started by yoko). YES paid for the travel expenses of rennie davis (leading anti-war activist and chicago seven defendant) to the 'world assembly for peace and independance of the peoples of indochina' in versailles.
in 1972 lennon faced deportation from the u.s. for a charge of marijuana possesssion back in britain. lennon protested that the real reason for the deportation was because of his politics and disapproval of the vietnam war. by this time lennnon believed that he was being constantly surveiled(with good reason). in late 1972 he told paul krassner, "Listen, if anything happens to Yoko and me, it was not an accident."

on 21 april, 1972, e.l.shackleford, a supervisor in the new york fbi office, sent a memo to one of his agents(this is only partially available due to redactions): "In view of successful delaying tactics to date, there exists real possibility that subject(John Lennon) will not be deported from U.S. in near future and possibly not prior to Republican National Convention. Subject's activities being closely followed and any information developed indicating violation of Federal laws will be immediately furnished to pertinent agencies in effort to neutralize any disruptive activities of subject."

lennon was informed (in 1972 by leon wilde, his immigration lawyer) that he would have to maintain a lower political profile if he wanted to stay in the u.s., and gain custody of yoko's daughter kyoko. in the same month lennon went on the dick cavett show and announced the cancellation of his upcoming 'revolutionary road show' and pulling back in terms of his political involvement.
in september 1973 the u.s. department of justice admitted that lennons phone had been illegally tapped.
lennon pretty much retired from public life.

by 1980 lennon was back. he had released a new album, his interest in politics had resurfaced (he had purchased plane tickets to san francisco to support striking japanese-american workers).
strange that the same year lennon made his comeback in political activism and music that he should be killed.

chapman had his religeous conversion to xianity in 1971. by 1977 chapman had lost his faith and began delving into devil-worship. in the months before the assassination, chapman paid a visit to satanist, kenneth anger at a screening in hawaii. "These are for John Lennon", he said, handing two .38 bullets to anger. chapman then attempted suicide, saw his survival as a sign, and thereafter addressed his prayers to satan.
dr. dorothy lewis, a professor in psychiatric research at the yale school of medicine reported that the assassin may have acted in response to a 'command hallucination'.

i believe that the book 'catcher in the rye' was used as a hypnotic trigger on chapman. his obsession with the book bagan in 1979 shortly after he was married. on his earlier trip to the dakota he learned that lennon and yoko were out of the city, chapman flew back to hawaii and threw away his copy of 'catcher in the rye'. when he returned on dec. 8 he purchased the book again and inscribed 'to holden caulfield from holden caulfield' in it.
chapmans connection to hawaii, ymca and world-visions also yield much evidence of government coercion.
then theres 'operation walrus'.





[edit on 28-11-2005 by Nagell]

mod edit to add spacing for paragraphs

[edit on 28-11-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

John Lennon said,"Look, we're (the beatles) bigger than Jesus" in Alabama, in 1964, while they were touring the US. He made the remark pointing to an almost empty church across the street from the packed auditorium where they were playing. He didn't mean that the beatles were literally more popular than Jesus. He said later that he was commenting on the shock he felt about Americans going to see them, rather than going to church. It was an unfortunate, but innocent statement made by an English kid, naively unaware of the impact it would have.

John Hinckley was so obsessed with Lennon's fame that he thought that by killing him, he could share the fame in some way.

This being said, I didn't agree with Lennon's political or religious positions, but let's be fair, I don't agree with murder for fame either.

Originally posted by ferdberffle
John Hinckley was so obsessed with Lennon's fame that he thought that by killing him, he could share the fame in some way.

that is a common belief, unfortunately there is no evidence to back it up. the 'deranged fan' tag seems to rise from chapman signing his name as 'john lennon' when he quit his job. the 'newsweeek' story that chapman had rebaptized himself as lennon had no basis in fact.

if chapman was obsessed with anyone in the music industry, it was todd rundgren.

the story of his doing it for some abstract form of 'fame' was first stated by the prosecutors of his case.

arthur o'connor was the detective who spent the most time with chapman immediately after the killing. he had this to say:
"It is definately illogical to say that Mark committed the murder to make himself famous. He did not want to talk to the press from the very start... It's possible Mark could have been used by somebody. I saw him the night of the murder. I studied him intensely. He looked as if he could have been programmed."



[edit on 28-11-2005 by Nagell]

Originally posted by neversubmit
Well if he was a mind controlled assassain, Why Lennon? Why not someone of greater influance like the President.

lennon was of great influence, to a movement of disaffected young adults. he was probably the only remnant of the 60's that still had the strength to bring back the activism of that era.

on one of the pages in lennons fbi file bears a handwritten inscription, block-lettered, underlined, it says: ALL EXTREMISTS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED DANGEROUS.



[edit on 29-11-2005 by Nagell]

Originally posted by ferdberffle
John Lennon said,"Look, we're (the beatles) bigger than Jesus" in Alabama, in 1964, while they were touring the US. He made the remark pointing to an almost empty church across the street from the packed auditorium where they were playing. He didn't mean that the beatles were literally more popular than Jesus. He said later that he was commenting on the shock he felt about Americans going to see them, rather than going to church. It was an unfortunate, but innocent statement made by an English kid, naively unaware of the impact it would have.

Exactly, he later said that he should of put it as "Television is bigger than Jesus" so the Bible Belt in America wouldn't go insane. It wasn't even a big deal in the UK.

George had the best comment about the Hitler style "Bealtes Burning" the southern Americans had, when asked what he thought about the burning, he simply said:

"Well, they have to buy it before they can burn it don't they".

Classic.

Aparrenlty Sean Lennon believes his father was killed by the government too.

"[My father] was dangerous to the government. If he had said, 'Bomb the White House tomorrow,' there would have been 10,000 people who would have done it. These pacifist revolutionaries are historically killed by the government."

The official story fingers Mark David Chapman, noted Catcher in the Rye enthusiast, as the lone assassin in the murder outside Lennon's Manhattan apartment.

Sean, who was 5 when his father died, begs to disagree with the official story.

"Anybody who thinks that Mark Chapman was just some crazy guy who killed my dad for his personal interests is insane, I think, or very naive," he says.

On his childhood: He led "as close to a normal childhood as one could have if you were John Lennon's kid: the only thing that was different was that I had only two detectives with guns following me everywhere."

www.beatlesagain.com...

The funny thing is that many of the people that burned their albums, later realized how stupid it was and bought them again !

I believe Chapman just wanted the fame. He is a nut.

There are good documents about Chapman on thesmokinggun.com

some facts about mark david chapman:

* months after the assassination, chapman announced he had "killed lennon to gain prominence to promote the reading of the catcher in the rye". yet he had no interest in the novel until just before his 'mission' in new york.

* chapman was not a loner. for most of his life he was a normally social individual, a camp counselor who had a special rapport with kids.

* if chapman was a 'nut', why was he sent to attica state prison and not a mental hospital? even now chapman receives only routine psychiatric care.

* as is the case with most 'lone-nut' killers, there was no trial after chapman changed his plea to 'guilty' why the change in plea? chapman stated that he was acting on instructions from a "small male voice" that spoke to him in his cell. a voice chapman believed belonged to 'god'.

* chapman started working for the ymca in 1969. cia defector, philip agee indicated in his book (inside the company: cia diary) that the ymca was/is a cia front. chapmans employment record is 'missing' from the headquarters of the ymca.

* chapmans airline ticket, found in his hotel room was a hawaii-new york connection departing december 5, but records show that chapman actually purchased a hawaii-chicago ticket with no connecting flight, departing december 2. the ticket found after his arrest appeared to have been altered.



[edit on 29-11-2005 by Nagell]

chapman was affiliated with world vision, the evangelical charity that had john hinckley sr. (ceo of vanderbilt energy corp., close friend of george bush sr.) on it's board. world vision has long been a cia collaborator.

* cia used a world vision camp in honduras, where it was used as a front for a contra recruiting drive for the nicaraguan rebellion.

* world vision camps in cuba were used to hide the notorious alpha 66(bay of pigs).

* phalange fascists slaughtered palestinians at the world vision camp in lebanon.

* after the atrocities of jonestown, world vision came to guyana and attempted to use the jonestown settlement to repopulate the area with laotian mercenaries. the same mercenaries that supplied the u.s. government with raw opium during vietnam.



[edit on 29-11-2005 by Nagell]

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by Zipdot
He said that the Beatles were "bigger than Jesus." This affected Chapman because at the time, he was a devout Christian and I believe that this was the first time that he saw Lennon as someone who betrayed him.

Zip

Thank you sir. Then Lennon got what is big mouth had set in motion.

That's a horrible thing to say. You're pretty much saying he deserved to be murdered because he made a light-hearted quip.

yes, yes, i'm sure that a thread on the 'bigger than jesus' quote would be very stimulating.

I could easily believe that Lennon was the victim of a Govt. sponsored assassination.

Years ago the idea that Brian Jones(Rolling Stones) was the victim of foul play would have been laughed at. The truth about his death came out with the confession of his killer, and several witnesses who were intinidated into silence.

Here in Australia, we had our own 'suspicious' rock star fatality - Michael Hutchence(INXS). Many still believe the 'erotic asphyxiation' story, but there are many factors that just do not add up.

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Beelzebubba]

Did a Google search and found this on Project WalrusDeadLennons= $$$


[edit on 7-12-2005 by Beelzebubba]

Interesting thread...

@ Beelzebubba - just out of curiousity, what are the factors that don't add up in Hutchences case?