Indian Air Force : News, Pics and Discussion thread

That is a small nozzle, reminds me of the back end of the Gloster Whittle E28/39.

Nice design otherwise though, except, why is HAL obsessed with 'stuck on' air intake design?

Apart from the fact that those nozzeles worked pretty well on the Kiran esp considering the fact that the Aerobatic team flies kirans, and the old saying that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' ?

Jez, It was a joke

But..Here was a picture i was looking at when i saw the nozzle and had a laugh.

Boeing likely to sell India eight naval aircraft

Washington, uni:
The Boeing company announced that it is likely to sell to India eight modified versions of the P-8A Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft (MMA) in the next four years.

Following a request for proposals by India, Boeing, along with other major aircraft-making companies, bid for the contract last week with the first deliveries beginning within 48 months of the contract award. If India accepts the Boeing proposal for a long-range submarine-hunting and reconnaissance aircraft, there would be ample work on the programme for companies in India, according to the Defense Today publication. “Boeing’s proposal includes the development of a unique Indian Navy P-8 configuration, significant participation for Indian industry, test and certification activities, and eight aircraft delivered over a four-year period,” it said.

Full Article >>

Now no surprie there, i wonder if "modified" and "customised" really mean "downgraded"

New news on the Eurofighter offer

Berlin: German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to press Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to consider buying the Eurofighter combat aircraft at talks next week

, said a report to be published Thursday.

The Berliner Zeitung newspaper quoted Germany's ambassador to India, Bernd Muetzelburg as saying: "We hope the Eurofighter will be able to compete directly with other (aircraft)." Merkel plans to make a pitch for the Eurofighter during Manmohan Singh's three-day visit to Berlin and the Hanover trade fair from April 22 to 25, the paper said. Wolfdietrich Hoeveler, Eurofighter's vice-president for communications in Germany, confirmed his company was eager to compete for an Indian purchase of 120 new fighter jets announced earlier this month.

Full Article>>

Sure they will lobby on, but can anything beat American lobbying ? I doubt.

IAF looking to create sub-cadre for weapons systems operators

NEW DELHI, APRIL 24: In what is believed to make it a far more efficient fighting force, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is mulling a separate sub-cadre of weapon systems operators along the lines of similar specialised cadres in the USAF and RAF.

Full Article >>

India to station MiG-29 fighter-bombers at
Tajikistan base

India’s overseas military facility in Tajikistan is expected to become operational by the year-end as part of New Delhi’s thrust into oil-rich Central Asia to meet its growing energy needs. The Indian Air Force (IAF) is to deploy a fleet of MiG-29 fighter-bombers at the airbase at Aini, 15 km from the Tajikistan capital Dushanbe.

India’s quasi-military Border Roads Organisation (BRO) is currently constructing three hangars at Aini, two of which will accommodate the 12 aircraft the IAF will deploy for varying periods, official sources said. The Tajikistan Air Force, whose personnel the IAF is training under an April 2002 defence cooperation agreement, will utilise the third hangar. For this purpose the IAF also plans to station trainer aircraft at Aini. The IAF is also helping its Tajik counterpart to retrofit its Soviet-era fighters while Indian civilian and military personnel are teaching the Tajik servicemen English.

The Indian Defence Ministry declined to comment on the Tajik base. However, defence planners said the base would provide New Delhi with a ‘‘longer strategic reach’’ in Central Asia and help it secure badly needed oil contracts.

Full Article >>

Reply to Daedalus' query :

India's initiative at Aini follows the establishment of its first military ‘‘outpost’’ in Tajikistan at Farkhor, adjoining the Tajik-Afghan border, that is manned by a handful of defence ‘‘advisers’’ from New Delhi.

The ‘‘quietly functional’’ Farkhor base is an extension of the field hospital India established in the late 1990s to help the Northern Alliance in its fight against the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

Technicians from the IAF and India’s secretive Aviation Research Centre (ARC) serviced and repaired the Alliance’s Mi-17 and Mi-35 helicopters for several years, until the Taliban’s ouster in 2001. The Research and Analysis Wing, India’s overseas intelligence-gathering agency, operates ARC.

India uses Farkhor principally to funnel economic and relief assistance it pledged to war-ravaged Afghanistan after 2001. Relief material is airlifted by the IAF to Aini, transported to Farkhor and into Afghanistan by road. Pakistan does not permit India overland access to Afghanistan.

-from the same source ..

[edit on 28/4/06 by Stealth Spy]

Paris, April 27 (IANS) French aerospace major Thales will make a formal proposal to the Indian government next month to upgrade its fleet of Mirage 2000 fighters that had been inducted in 1985, senior company officials said. 'This will be a mid-life upgrade for the M2000 H/T and will help the Indian Air Force run the aircraft for another 20 years,

' Emmanuel Grave, vice president for the group's aerospace division said.

India has 52 such fighter jets in three squadrons. Company officials said the upgrades will be undertaken through joint ventures and partnerships with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, the Department of Aviation Research, Bharat Electronics Ltd and other Indian partners. The Indian Air Force had informally approached Thales last year for this critical upgrade to extend the fleet's operational capability, as well as air-to-air and air-to-ground superiority to take on multiple targets with multi-role and swing-role capabilities.

The aerospace giant has provided avionics and other high-technology systems to most planes flown by the Indian Air Force, including Mirage 2000, SU-30 and MIG-29K for aircraft carrier Gorshkov and proposes to upgrade these systems to the latest generation. 'Thales and its French partners have the full knowledge and solutions for a low-risk and cost-effective upgrade of M2000. Thales is willing to cooperate with Indian industries and partners for the project,' Andre said.

Full Article >>

So the alredy almost 20 year old Mirage is gonna get 20 more years of life .... sounds strange to say the least.

The Rafaleifying of the Mirage with the addition of swing role capability in addition to enchancing avionics and multirole abilities will perhaps make these upgraded Mirage-2000H's more advanced than Mirage-2000-5's !! Hopefully the FBW and the radar will recieve upgrades as well, and not to mention some of these bells and whistles from the SPECTRA suite as well

[edit on 29/4/06 by Stealth Spy]

India's Zombie Jet Fighter

India, like the United States, has weapons development projects that go on and on, to the point where the weapon is obsolete, but has too many political supporters to allow it to be cancelled. India has a number of these boondoggles, most of them missiles or aircraft. These problems arose when, in the 1980s, India decided to develop and build certain weapons themselves. This kept money and jobs in India, and eliminated dependence on foreigners for these weapons. All good in theory, but in practice, there were major problems.Â

Take, for example, the Indian attempt to build a jet fighter to replace their Russian MiG-21s. To address this need, in 1983 India began their "Light Combat Aircraft" (or "Tejas") project. Building something better than the 1950s era MiG-21 didn't seem too difficult. But 23 years later, the Tejas is still in development. The aircraft has become something of a zombie project. It can be killed, or really brought to life. Even with 500 test flights, there are still serious problems that prevent putting the aircraft into production. The MiG-21s are still in service, and falling apart. The situation is getting critical.Â

www.strategypage.com...


[edit on 29-4-2006 by chinawhite]

from the same article above..

On the plus side, the Tejas project also created an Indian capability to develop jet fighters, including the complex engines. China also found that developing this kind of capability is not cheap, and projects like Tejas are how you pay for your new skills.

^^Thanks for the next paragraph from the same article that some vested intrests decided to blockade.....

The article also goew on to add >>

Unlike the Gripen, Tejas has less capable electronics...

Now that's debateable to say the least...the Tejas was intended to be a more technologicaly superior than the Gripen and that will perhaps be the case but the Tejas's timeline betrayed it badly and there are hardly any arguments to counter that other than to cite lack of expierence and technology base to start with ... in addition to American sanctions which denied the Tejas laser ring gyroscopes and engine support. Additionally the Tejas did not recieve as much technical aid from BAe and other like the Gripen did.

India had hoped to export the Tejas, but with competition like Gripen, and continuing problems designing components, it's going to be rough going.

Well, export was hardly a consideration for the Tejas project from the time of its inception...and the argument about "problems designing components" is also a thing of the past, with all of the Tejas alredy designed a while back and the airplane now awaiting IOC.

[edit on 30/4/06 by Stealth Spy]

PARIS: French aircraft maker Dassault is awaiting signal from the Indian government to bid for the estimated $8bn contract to sell its Rafale fighters to the Indian Air Force and sees a potential for 30-40 of its business jets in the country over the next eight years.

"We will be flexible enough to meet the Indian government’s delivery schedules as and when required,” Robins added. Company officials said the issue also figured during the India visit of French President Jacques Chirac this year.

According to Robins, the price for the aircraft would depend on factors such as the type of weapons the IAF intends to use, but added that the company recently sold its Rafale fighters to the French navy for around $65mn each.

Full Article >>

Now, everybody seems to be using their top level political leadership for lobbying...

And 65 mil $ seems a fair price for the Rafale considering that it was stated that the F-18 would cost over 80 mil $ if India were to decide to buy it...

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
^^Thanks for the next paragraph from the same article that some vested intrests decided to blockade.....

The rules in copying a article is to quote the first TWO paragraphs. Unlike your "brochures" I quote people properly so ATS does not infringe on copyright laws. Why do you always forget that

Understand now kiddo?

in addition to American sanctions which denied the Tejas laser ring gyroscopes and engine support. Additionally the Tejas did not recieve as much technical aid from BAe and other like the Gripen did.

Anymore excuses?

I'll quote the rules for you

Going forward, if you post something that is not 100% your own writing or work you must use the QUOTE BOX TAG, post NO MORE THAN 15% of the original (or three paragraphs, whichever is least), and GIVE A LINK TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL

Posting work written by others. **ALL MEMBERS READ**

Well its Maximum three paragraphs or 15%. 15% in this case would have been to little while three paragraphs or the four that you wanted would be in breach of the rules.

And unlike you SS. I do not copy and paste articles together

Originally posted by chinawhite
The rules in copying a article is to quote the first TWO paragraphs. I quote people properly so ATS does not infringe on copyright laws. Why do you always forget that

Understand now kiddo?

Now this is a fine example of "it" kicking in ... again ... looks like the presonal attack happy ORACLE did not bother to read its own link.

Chew upon this from your own link >> www.abovetopsecret.com...&singlepost=1917369

Sorry to burst your bubble ... but there goes your excuse ..

Having said that i still welcome your posts, even though they may be negetive or criticising articles ...

And unlike you SS. I do not copy and paste articles together

It kicks in again .... another nonsense claim ..

I wont waste a post replying to some nonsense ... so here is some topic related news ... an explaination to the Mig-25's retirement.

Highlighting the changing nature of surveillance, Air Chief SP Tyagi said on Monday that India was now fully equipped to tap satellites for keeping a strategic eye on the ground.

"The nature of warfare is changing with satellites taking over the act of spying," Tyagi said as he, along with top IAF brass, bid adieu to India's secret strategic weapon platform for decades. MIG-25 no longer have strategic use to India. Also, the planes are no longer cost-effective," Tyagi saidThe Air Force Chief added that the spy-plane had completed its lifespan and that India now has INSAT 2B satellite for the purpose."

IAF's decision to decommission the MIG-25 who inspired awe among western nations after it was unveiled by the erstwhile Soviet Union in 1967 with a world record speed of 2982 kmph, was taken four years ago as the Air Force faced immense difficulty in obtaining spares. MIG-25's record in speed and height was only once beaten by the US Blackbird SR-71, which is a generation ahead of it, but on August 31,1977, a MIG-25 with an upgraded engine reached a height of 37,625 kms and that record of the Foxbat still remains.

Full Article >>

India planning C-130J buy

The Air Chief SP Tyagi says so himself :

"The IAF is planning to buy C-130 J planes for its special force"

--- from the same link.

HAL creates history by assembling American Bell 407 chopper

New Delhi: Having built "French" under technology transfer and the indegenious Advance Light helicopter "Dhruv", state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has for the first time successfully assembled an American Bell 407 helicopter.

The assembling of the helicopter assumes significance as Textron company Bell 407 helicopter is bidding for the Indian Army's contract for 197 helicopters to expand its aviation wing. Bell, along with Eurocopter, has been shortlisted for the contract and the American company's 407 helicopter has successfully completed technical evaluation including winter trials in high altitude areas of Ladakh and summer tests in the Pokhran range in the Thar desert.

"Both Bell and HAL were equally excited that this assembly could be done at HAL since it exposed the company to the complete process of assembly and delivery of the Bell 407 helicopters" Wixley said.

Article >>

[edit on 1/5/06 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Now this is a fine example of "it" kicking in ... again ... looks like the presonal attack happy ORACLE did not bother to read its own link.

Did you not read my post below where i corrected myself?. Im not here for speculation but it seems you are. Your ORACLE thread here and acussing me?.

Chew upon this from your own link >> www.abovetopsecret.com...&singlepost=1917369

Ill quote myself here

"""And unlike you SS. I do not copy and paste articles together"""""

Sorry to burst your bubble ... but there goes your excuse ..

For what?. Putting in a comment abou china which was unnecessary?. Why should/need to put that in?

Having said that i still welcome your posts, even though they may be negetive or criticising articles

Well I never known you from holding back a article (and chopping and highlighting words). But i will post articles you missed out to give contrast to the cherrly picture you post in your "links"

More updates if not covered earlier:

The Mid March 06' issue of JDW has an article which informs that IN pilots have begun training for deck-based operations at the USN training command in Pensacola,FL.
A rear Adm in the IN said that the IN plans to have 32 pilots qualified in the US at the rate of 4 aviators every every six months, after which they would proceed to Russia to train on the MiG-29Ks intended for one(maybe two) of the awaited IN carriers.

The article also mentioend that the IN was 'compelled' to accept Washington's offer to instruct its pilots as Russia has no facilities for intermediate-deck flight instruction.

Source JDW Mar 15 06' : 'India moves to boost airborne surveillance'

Now from my rudimentary understanding of carrier ops, the major portion of this training would revolve around carrier landings with arrester cables as the IN has only operated STOVL a/c (namely Harriers FRS Mk1) from ski jump carrier decks.

However I'm am still confused about this term 'intermediate-deck'..
Is it what one would call the combination of a ski-jump assisted take-off and an arrester cable assisted landing?
Why would Russia NOT have the facilities for the training of such?
Isn't the Kuznetsov an operational carrier with a ski jump and arrester landing gear?Doesn't it actively operate Su27K/Su33 on this carrier?

Infact I don't think any other Navy currently operates carriers with a combination of ski jum assisted take offs and arrester assisted landings.
Maybe the IN was wary of Russia's record with carrier ops with that Su-27k accident in Sept 05' AND/OR is taking some carrier know-how back to the Russians?

Indian Air Force to induct Hawk 66

COIMBATORE: As part of its mission to train its personnel in modern aircrafts, Indian Air Force would procure Hawk 66 aircraft from the United Kingdom, a senior defence official has said.

The aircraft would be procured in batches from October 2007 and the Advanced Jet Trainers programme would begin from June 2008, Air Marshal B N Gokhale, Air Officer commanding-in- Chief, told reporters here on Wednesday.

MIG series 21, 23, 27, 29 and HTD 32 and Kiran aircraft were at presently used for training the personnel. The MIG series would be gradually phased

Full Article >>


HAL, Martin-Baker in a seating arrangement

BANGALORE: Aerospace major Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is in talks with British ejection seat maker Martin-Baker Aircraft Co Ltd to set up a joint venture in India to manufacture ejection seats for various classes of fighter aircraft used by the armed forces in India.

The prototype aircraft of Tejas, the light combat aircraft (LCA), is already fitted with a night vision compatible glass cockpit with Martin Baker (UK) zero-zero ejection seats.

“The JV will be for ejection seats that need to be replaced for existing fighters and also for new fleet of aircraft,” sources in the Bangalore-based company told DNA Money.

Full article >>


PV-2, production standard Tejas goes supersonic again...

The PV 2 prototype is the "definitve" operational version of the Tejas jet for induction into the Indian Air Force (IAF). It first made a supersonic flight yesterday, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) here said.

It made another supersonic flight today, for the first time carrying two state-of-the-art air-to-air missiles. This indicated the jet's entry into the operational flight test phase, it said.

The test flight was flown by Wing Commander Vikram Singh and lasted 24 minutes, the ADA said.

Full >>

Boeing team flying down to sell T-45 Goshawk

According to sources, it is understood that a large delegation from Boeing is arriving in New Delhi later this month to explore opportunities for offering T-45 Goshawk to the Indian Navy. Besides meetings and presentations at the Naval headquarters here, the team will also be visiting Bangalore, a highly placed defence ministry source revealed.

Sources say that Boeing is making a number of offers to India even though no positive development has evolved out of the offers made by other American companies so far.

Full Article >>

With so many carriers and airplanes based on them lining up to enter service this is not surprising.

The T-45 is essentially a modified BAe Hawk, right ?. I was wondering if the deal for Hawks to be license produced at HAL could be extended and these goshawks can be made out of the additional ones

Does BAe have a stake in selling the gosHawk as well ? What aircrafts do the the Russians & French use to train their pilots for carrier based operations with more lethal airplanes ?

Indian Fighter Copies Costlier Than Russian Originals

A federal watchdog May 19 blasted Indian military plane-makers for spending more on copying Russian-made Sukhoi fighter jets than it would cost to buy them.

Some of the copied Sukhoi-30MKI interceptors are also flying without critical airborne systems, the Controller-Auditor General (CAG) said in a hard-hitting report about India’s military hardware manufacturers.

Moscow allowed New Delhi to locally build Sukhois in the late 1990s as part of a bilateral pact to save India using up foreign exchange reserves.

DefenseNews.com

The article is very sketchy to say the least. The reason for the cost over-runs might be because the MKI is very different from any other Su-30. Its is even more advanced than anything Russia has. Plus over the years the specs for the fighter have been changed several times. Cost Over-runs are to be expected

It has risen 100% of the original PROJECTED cost of the program. I think the message is clear enough

I think just looking at the figures (which aren't confirmed/statiscally cross-sectioned) w/o looking at anything else is rather premature..
If this point warrants any disscussion at all then we need more info to work on.
We aren't considering facts like:
Maybe those a/c aren't what they seem. They may have a lot of jazz which would not be available on direct Russian imports.
Also that bit about the Su 30s flying w/o adequate equipment also seems to be a rather flimsy claim..
IMHO its a sniper article.. needs to be looked into much more thoroughly..

This was the first article i read

Sukhoi faces huge cost esclation

Licensed production of multi-role Sukhoi-30MKI fighters in the country is running into huge costs overruns and some of them in the latest batch are flying without some advanced critical airborne systems.

To add to this, the indigenous manufacture of the Russian frontline fighters is working out to more than the cost of imports, according to the latest report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) placed in Parliament today.

Three critical airborne systems of the fighters-- electronic warfare system, reconissance system and direction finding modular radar have not not been integrated with the latest batch of aircraft delivered by the Russians under the November 1996 contract, the report said.

Outlook india


We are not looking at which systems are costing india the most but how much the price has risen for the MKI. It would be pretty safe to assume that the Controller-Auditor General wouldn't fabicate a lie to the indian parliment

They may have a lot of jazz which would not be available on direct Russian imports.

Well the "jazz" is nothing speical. The important equipment are still russian, while the Sextant MFDs could be replaced by the ones on the Su-30KNM which are bigger and would function better to guide missiles or bombs. The other equipment like the HUD, EW could be intergrated when the finished planes came from russia.

The point of the articles is to question the PROJECTED cost which included future block versions and the added equipment.

Su 30s flying w/o adequate equipment also seems to be a rather flimsy claim

That is a flimsy argument.

Three critical airborne systems of the fighters-- electronic warfare system, reconissance system and direction finding modular radar have not not been integrated with the latest batch of aircraft delivered by the Russians under the November 1996 contract, the report said.

Missing this equpment seems reasonable. I dont want to play the unorganised card because a lot "projects" in india are behind schedule or cost over runs.

needs to be looked into much more thoroughly..

Since your in india could you try and obtain a copy of the actual report. or even look for one in a indian site