WAR: Blair "Double-Crossed" by Bush Aides

In a radio show on BBC Radio 4 today, a career diplomat for the US, Joseph Wilson, has claimed that Blair was tricked into the "Regime Change"plans for Iraq by close Aides to President Bush. He claims that the Prime Minister believed he was getting involved in a "disarmament campaign", but when the time came he had no choice to get involved with the "regime change war".



More and more revelations are now emerging about the whole Iraq War fiasco and the involvement of Great Britain.

Mr Wilson is the diplomat who's wife was outed as a CIA spy and is at the heart of a political nightmare for the White House.

These are most certainly interesting revelations coming out at the moment and certainly raise questions with regard to the "special relationship" that is often claimed to be between the US and the UK.

Strangely quiet, considering the topic.......

Considering the source of the allegations, Joseph Wilson, the husband of Valerie Plame, no wonder this topic has been "strangely quiet".

Furthermore, lets consider this allegation for a moment:
Bush has always been portrayed by many here and within the media as an idiot, stupid, dumb, and/or a bumbling fool.

How can an idiot, someone that is stupid, dumb, and a bumbling fool of a president 'sucker' [ie: take advantage of] the majority of the Democrats, the US public, and now Blair, along with the entire British government, into a war with Iraq?

Bush must be smarter than many here and within the media are letting on, huh?





seekerof

Bush must be smarter than many here and within the media are letting on, huh?

Not so sure about that, Seeker:

Locked Door Thwarts Bush




[edit on 24/11/05 by stumason]

I don't think it's important what this ex-diplomat thinks. I think Tony Blair is a man with a spine and if he had been led down the primrose path, I think he would have ralsed holy hell. I'm no insider, but I have never read or heard anything that would lead me to believe that the administration hasn't been clear about its objectives since 9/11. From the very beginning, the President has said that we don't have the luxury of finding a "smoking gun." The world is far to dangerous to play games with megalomaniacal tyrants. Blair knows that as well or better than any man on the planet.

[edit on 2005/11/24 by GradyPhilpott]

So Mr. Plame is now looking for friends overseas, eh? I think the title of this thread is misleading. As it currently reads, it implies that something actually happened. But when I read the linked article, I saw:

Joseph Wilson said he believed the Mr Blair had thought he was getting involved with a "disarmament campaign".

That does not sound too confident to me. Wilson "believed" the Mr. Blair "had thought"? In other words, Wilson didn't actually hear anything of the sort.

Besides, what's the real difference between disarmament and regime change? Do we fill out Form B instead of Form A? Either way, Saddam is going to take advantage of it. In fact, given the choice, he probably would have chosen regime change over disarmament. Then he could agree to go into exile with his $billions, and he could run the show from afar while living like a corrupt dictator.

[edit on 25-11-2005 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Bush has always been portrayed by many here and within the media as an idiot, stupid, dumb, and/or a bumbling fool.

How can an idiot, someone that is stupid, dumb, and a bumbling fool of a president 'sucker' [ie: take advantage of] the majority of the Democrats, the US public, and now Blair, along with the entire British government, into a war with Iraq?

Bush must be smarter than many here and within the media are letting on, huh?

Or we're all just alot dumber than he is.

Its so Interesting to Watch the Reactions to this kind of News.

First the Source is under attack.

If that does not work, the Man who Said it, in the named Source is under attack.

Well, if that does not work, lets attack the Messenger!

If you ask me, Bush IS dumb, and he is only but a Puppet of the Two REAL masters of the White House: Chaney and Rumsfeld, both OBSESSED with Iraq, Wars and Profit. And these two men were the so-called regime change crowd in Washington mentioned in the Article.

Correct Souljah, left to his fortunes Sgrub would have at best been a used car salesman, at worst a homeless drunk without the "family" to keep bailing him out. Let's face it, his past personal and business history shows that to be the case

Blair will do whatever it takes to make him one of the ruling elite in his own eyes. In that respect he is no different to most other high profile politicians. The world of politics is not about serving the people but having the people serve you and feeding them whatever crap you decide to along the way to keep the masses compliant.

Sure, Blair may have been misled to start with but kept on course anyway despite glaring lies that anyone with an ounce of common sense could see through. His reward? Well there may be a nice little Carlyle Group job at the end of it, and he sure does need the money to pay for that little London pad he bought a while back

Originally posted by Britguy
Sure, Blair may have been misled to start with but kept on course anyway despite glaring lies that anyone with an ounce of common sense could see through. His reward? Well there may be a nice little Carlyle Group job at the end of it, and he sure does need the money to pay for that little London pad he bought a while back

Yep - I have heard that before, but forgot to write it down. I'm glad you brought it up: the so-called X-Presidents Club, which manages ougly 30 BILLION "Investments" worldwide. This position will get Tony a rough paycheck of £500.000. Hey and do you know who is also in C-Group?

At one time, Carlyle's multi-million pound investors included Saudi members of the estranged family of al-Qaeda warlord Osama bin Laden, who have disowned him. But the family have not been involved with the group for several years.

www.infowars.com...

And here's an Oldie, but Goldie from ATSNN: WAR: Britain Agrees to U.S. Troops Request

And Well Worth 48 Minutes Documentary about the Iron Triangle: Exposed: The Carlyle Group

[edit on 25/11/05 by Souljah]

Actually Mr. Wilson is a Bush foe and not a Bush aide. In fact, more and more evidence is emerging that Mr. Wilson is a compulsive liar and loosed lipped himself. He often shared the occupation of his CIA wife to people who should not have been in the loop. Then he participates in the hypocrisy of blaming the Bush Administration for "outing" his wife. Now he is going overseas to flame hostility against his President to justify his own foolishness. Benedict Arnold comes to mind with that thought.

Joe Wilson is a liar and would say anything to try to get the media spotlight on him again. He never worked for the Bush administration except for that short trip to Niger to investigate the British yellowcake uranium report, and would certainly have no information that would allow him to make this accusation. And while he discounted the report, the British government still stands behind it, which tends to dispute the notion it was Bush hyping nuclear intel to the Brits -- it sounds like just the opposite is true.

These are most certainly interesting revelations coming out at the moment and certainly raise questions with regard to the "special relationship" that is often claimed to be between the US and the UK.

How was that a revelation? It was the beliefs of one man, who happens to be at odds with the current administration, and based on absolutely no facts- only his personal beliefs. The truth is that Joseph Wilson is a hack and has absolutely no knowledge of the discussions between the President and Prime Minister, nor their respective staffs'. This is purely conjecture, and under any other circumstance it would clearly be considered such.

But in this case, Mr. Wilson's unfounded blabber supports certain ATS members' beliefs, and therefor need not fall under the normal scrutiny we would place on an outsider's opinions. What entertains me the most is how contradictory many of the anti-war folks' beliefs are. They call Bush an idiot and a moron, yet they credit him with fooling an extremely intelligent man like Tony Blair as well as orchestrating the 9/11 attacks and fabricating intelligence that fooled most of Congress and most of the American people. They say the Bush Administration has this grand plan to invade all of these arab countries, and even North Korea and China. Yet they're willing to believe that Bush would doublecross his #1 ally in this effort right from the start. Don't they need Blair and Britain to complete the rest of their plan for global domination?

Didn't the administration have the sense to realize that after the WMD that they allegedly knew wasn't in Iraq wouldn't be found, that the public would turn against them? To me that is the most important fact that those who claim Bush lied about the WMD choose to overlook. And since they knew there were no WMD in Iraq, wouldn't they at least plant some? I guess they just didn't care about public opinion for the war, as well as that tiny little presidential election that was down the road. Give me a break.

I hate to break it to a lot of you guys, but Bush is not Satan. He is neither an idiot nor a genius. He is neither a warmonger nor a hippy. He is just someone who is willing to do what they feel is best for our country, regardless of how it plays out in the media. The fact is that most of you are so consumed with this unfound hatred of the man that you are willing to listen to anyone, or believe anything, so long as its anti-Bush and suits your agendas. To put any weight behind the opinions of a man like Joseph Wilson, who couldn't be more biased towards the President if Bush had killed Wilson's own mother, is completely rediculous to me. And it shows the great lengths some of you anti-Bush, anti-war ATS members will go to in order to feed the flame of your contempt for our President.

From reading the serialised portions of Sir Christoper Meyers book in the Guardian, I do get the impression that Blair was hoodwinked a little. Mesmerised by the lifestyle and power of the Presidency. However, he knew what was happening and the choice was simple.

Europe or the USA.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Considering the source of the allegations, Joseph Wilson, the husband of Valerie Plame, no wonder this topic has been "strangely quiet".

Furthermore, lets consider this allegation for a moment:
Bush has always been portrayed by many here and within the media as an idiot, stupid, dumb, and/or a bumbling fool.

How can an idiot, someone that is stupid, dumb, and a bumbling fool of a president 'sucker' [ie: take advantage of] the majority of the Democrats, the US public, and now Blair, along with the entire British government, into a war with Iraq?

Bush must be smarter than many here and within the media are letting on, huh?





seekerof

Lets be honest here. Bush has not, and has never had any document put in front of him to read that he has written himself. He, like Blair, are controlled by the security forces which ultimately govern our countries.

They have no real credibility(the Governments) nor any clout in what goes on, or what happens. They are just figure heads for the general public.

The more they preach, the more we tend to disbelive....

Hey Souljah

Since you are a self-professed enemy of the US ( you admitted that you were), always ready to spill your anti-US garbage all over these threads, I thought you'd like this little accoutrement you can vomit in instead of in our threads...your own little barf bag.

I still think that entire thing with the yellowcake uranium and Niger and Wilson was a put up job by the CIA.

a. Wilson's wife nominated him for the job (very unusual).
b. Wilson's wife is a large consistent contributor to the Democratic party.
c. Wilson was briefed by the CIA as to the official viewpoint of the CIA before he left on his fact finding trip (an almost unprecendented thing to do).
d. Wilson was not forced to sign a non-disclosure oath when he took the job (against the rules).
e. The CIA was under increasing pressure from the White House over the National Intelligence Assessment concerning Iraq. (That assessment maintained that Iraq had WMD's and was a serious threat to the peace & stability of the Mid-East.)
f. Follow up intelligence from the Italians (concerning yellowcake uranium), which basically corroborated the initial intelligence from the U.K., was never investigated thoroughly or in a timely manner.
g. The Italian intelligence was found to be forged, but the originator of the intelligence has never been found by the CIA (or anyone else) even though the FBI has been tasked to do so.
h. The CIA continued to clear the language of speeches by various administration officials in spite of the fact they had come to the conclusion the yellowcake uranium reports were baseless and the aluminum tubes were dual use materials probably not employed, or intended for employment, in nuclear related activities.
i. The N.Y. Times provides a ready, even eager avenue for Wilson to get his opinions published accusing the Bush administration of lying about WMD's only after the CIA has cleared the language of Bush's speech, wherein he referenced the intelligence about the yellowcake uranium indirectly.

Now if the CIA, which had a Clinton appointed democrat at the helm, did not put up the whole incident to embarass the Bush administration and take heat off themselves (if that was a concern), then they certainly acted in a manner that was very suspicious and un American. The most flattering thing one could say about them during the time period is that they were incompetent.

P.S. Since the incident the director of Italy's intelligence agency has been discredited and forced to resign as has the director of the CIA and the governments of both countries have blasted those agencies for laxity & incompetence.

[edit on 25-11-2005 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by jsobecky
Hey Souljah

Since you are a self-professed enemy of the US ( you admitted that you were), always ready to spill your anti-US garbage all over these threads, I thought you'd like this little accoutrement you can vomit in instead of in our threads...your own little barf bag.

Hey Becky,
Is that your LAST resort, yet again; Insults?
Can't HANDLE the Truth?
Don't wanna see the Man in the Mirror?
Wanna Ignore him foreveR?

Becky, Becky...
As I remember last time, you have cried home to Momma, when I typed your name wrong - what do I do with you Now when you have clearly Insulted me, which is against the Rules of this Board 4 Real?

Here is a lil' picture for you also:


[edit on 29/11/05 by Souljah]

Souljah

Take this offline via u2u instead of polluting this thread. Remember, IMO you are extremely biased to America and to Israel. If you want, I can refresh your memory, where you said that you were America's enemy. And there was the time where you showed hate and disdain for Jews by calling them "Joooos". Other people have been banned for less.

Your posts are invariably anti-American and repetitive. And often ill-researched and boring.

I apologize to the rest of the community for bringing this to this forum. Mea culpa.

If you people do not chill, I will give y'all a vacation! It's too early in the morning for B.S., GOT IT!?!