What is past our Universe?

One theory is that the universe is a 'hyper-sphere' what this means is that to three dimensional beings such as ourselves there is no ending, it is infinite. Like for a two dimensional being on a mobius strip.
A four dimensional being would see the universe as a hyper-sphere but it would be able to move beyond it.

The question of what, if anything, lies beyond the boundaries of our universe (assuming such boundaries exist) has entertained and puzzled people for many years. Mathematicians and physicists may express their theories utilising the elegant beauty of numbers, but it is science fiction and fantasy which has given form to these theories, presenting a number of different suggestions as to what exactly may lie just beyond the edge of our concept of reality.

Are We A Marble?

The notion, for example, that our universe, in its entirety, is simply a miniscule aspect of some larger universe is a popular one. A recent example of the illustration of this theory can be found in Men In Black where, at the end of the movie, our universe is revealed to exist inside a marble wielded by an impossibly huge alien. Now, whilst this idea was presented in the film as whimsy, it illustrates quite adequately the concept that our universe may exist in the micro-world of atoms and elemental particles that make up some grander universe.

Loop the Loop

Another concept is one that has already been discussed, that the universe will simply loop back on itself and that, were you to travel to the edge of the universe and then beyond, you would find yourself returned to your point of origin. For an example of this idea at work, consider the train station scene in The Matrix Revolutions, in which Neo finds himself trapped in Limbo (Mobil Station) and, upon trying to leave, finds himself inexplicably brought back to where he began. This idea has proved popular for a number of reasons. Firstly, it allows us to dismiss the notion of what happens when you reach the edge of the universe, by stipulating that space simply loops back upon itself. Secondly, it runs counter to notions that the universe has a physical edge where reality as we know it ceases to exist. This is beneficial in that we have seen similar beliefs defeated in the past, such as the idea that the Earth itself had a physical edge over which a great void existed. In this way, this idea of a curved universe seems somehow the safe option, whilst simultaneously raising a number of issues of its own.

Here Be Dragons

A third idea is that beyond our universe exists a surreal state of reality which is completely incomprehensible to humans, since it is so far removed from anything we currently hold to be “reality” and is, by its very nature, a kind of unreality. This idea has been popularised many times in both print and film. Examples of this nothingness include the Phantom Zone from Superman, the universe of the Beyonder and the Negative Zone from Marvel comics and the description of the Beyond as found in aspects of White Wolf’s role-playing series The World of Darkness. Opinions differ, however, over the makeup of this unreality that doesn’t exist outside our universe. Some have posited it to be a blank, empty region in which nothing exists at all (such as the white, featureless un-universe of the movie Nothing). Others have imagined it to be an area populated by surrealist, nightmarish creatures. A good example of this are the incomprehensible monsters of the works of H.P. Lovecraft, or White Wolf’s Neverborn. This idea appeals in a morbid way, playing upon our inherent fear of the unknown and of things intrinsically alien to us. As has been stated, it is very much a case of “Here be dragons” with this theory.

Cowboy Jeremiah?

An idea somewhat similar to the first is that our universe is merely one of many, which together constitute a greater realm known, at different times, as the Multiverse or the Omniverse. This is the theory of parallel universes and has been portrayed times too numerous to count. A particularly interesting example of this theory is the Marvel comics universe, where Earths are numbered, with the regular Marvel universe being designated Earth 616. Other examples include the parallel universe of Futurama, which begins at the edge of our own universe and which is similar in every respect, except that the people who inhabit it are cowboy versions of the regular characters. This theory is at once comforting and unnerving. The idea that, where our universe ends another begins, is a reassuring one. It gives us hope that we are not alone and that life may exist in limitless variety throughout countless universes. However, it too plays upon not only our fear of the unknown, but also our sense of identity. For if another Jeremiah25 exists in a universe beyond this one, what implications does this have for self-identity? For religion? For physics?

Knocking on Heaven's Door

To present a final theory, there are those who believe that beyond our universe exists God. Many is the time I have heard God referred to as existing beyond the confines of time and space, gazing upon our universe from its omnipotent, omniscient perspective. Were this theory to be true, it raises a number of implications for religion. Humans have mapped the edges of the Earth and now of the solar system. Is it so unreasonable, then, to imagine that we may one day chart the limits of the universe itself? If we somehow avoid destroying ourselves, what might we be capable of in ten thousand years? In a million years? Is it possible, within the framework of this theory, that we might one day discover the abode of God?

Whenever I consider these questions, I am struck by a profound sense of awe at the capacity of human beings for curiosity and wonder. After 3.5 billion years of life on this planet, nature has finally crafted a creature capable of questioning what exists beyond its own reality. With all the negative aspects of being a human living on this planet, it is refreshing to pause every now and then and consider that perhaps we are not so lost as we might imagine.


[edit on 27/11/05 by Jeremiah25]

Great post Jeremiah, I think the answer is out of reach for us for the time being the possibilitys are mind-boggleing, theres alot we dont even know about our own planet, yet alone the universe.The most amazing thing to me is that we can even begin the understand the universe.

You have voted Jeremiah25 for the Way Above Top Secret award

Great read mate

We all know that beyond the universe lies the realm of the Spaghetti Flying Monster(TM).

Iseriously think that the univserse doesn't have an end. It depends on what you define the universe is; if you define it as the realm in which all things exist, then it is just what we are in now, otherwise it wouldn't exist. so if it ended, that would be like 0 in a 1,0 logic circuit if you get what i mean (is or isn't) so it's literally impossible for it to end.

if the universe/multiverse is infinite then it is unconquorable, however if the universe is extremely large, ancient, but finite then it means someone or something can eventually gain control of it, if it is finite then something already has begun to control as much as possible therefore making us toast when it takes control of our little patch of grass.

It makes no sense to me that “nothing” can contain “something”, and I do strongly believe that “something” does, in fact, exist (my dirty laundry, for example). Therefore, the notion that beyond our universe may lie “nothing” at all is illogical to me. Of course, it could just be my flawed “human logic” that insists there must be a medium within which to exist, and that “nothing” does not constitute a medium, since a medium is “something”.

To take it a step further, following the above logic, if a state of “nothing”ness cannot exist (on any level), then doesn’t that leave “infinity” as the only other game in town? It’s got to be one or the other, right? There is no in between.

So, what I’m going with is that we exist within infinity and we’ll never, ever, know of it all. It seems that in the universe we are aware of, things tend to form groups; we have groups of planets revolving around stars, groups of stars revolving around each other to form clusters, clusters of stars that form galaxies, galaxies then congregating into galactic clusters, which finally constitute what we call our universe. Who knows? If the force of gravity is not confined to our universe alone, there may be groups of universes forming universal clusters, and universal clusters grouping into macroverses, and so on, and so on … At some point the meaning of boundaries is lost in infinity.

Of course, the same is true in the opposite direction, when we peer deep into the subatomic world and beyond. Then to further complicate matters, we may now be on the verge of confirming the existence of other dimensions. I have a feeling that eventually we’ll come to understand that reality extends unbounded in all directions. It really fascinates me to think that we may be at this very moment sharing the same space with countless other overlapping dimensions/universes that go completely unnoticed simply because our atoms don’t interact.

It’s all way over my head, but it’s fun to think about anyway. I like this thread - A lot of good posts and interesting perspectives …

[edit on 11/29/2005 by netbound]

I askes my science teacher this and she said that most scientists believee that you can not go beyond it and you kind of "bouce off" the walls. Like in Halo 2 when you try to go out of a level you get pushed back by an invisible forcefield. Same thing applies to universe.

Well we certainly cannot other than with calculations measure the current supposed Universe size. We can see energy emitting back to us from the supposed "big bang" based on an estimation of when this event occurred. My theory is the Universe at any given time will have such an internal mass of matter that escaping the ever-expanding sphere would be impossible and unperceivable at the same time. If you could travel at the speed of light the overall mass of the entire universe would ever so slightly keep your ship or travel device in an arc of travel. Never reaching the edge of expansion. Now I know someone will come along and disprove this. They have first hand knowledge from personally being there at the edge and can state that this is certainly not the case!

On an after thought:

If a creator does preside outside our universe watching down and all around, then all of it is for us and entirely uninhabited by any other living creature? I find that harder to believe than any idea of what lies beyond. Do our minds follow the same path as the expanding universe? Always wondering what lies beyond. Maybe it’s just a void and will be filled by those that were created in his image and their thoughts; when the time is right.

But if by some quirk you were to go beyond the edge that is where all the lost socks, lighters, and pencils are If you find a blue one it’s mine!


[edit on 29-11-2005 by IntelRetard]

I thought i would just add something else to make this thread even more confusing. Reality is different from every person, knowledge, experience, perspective, and of course our stimulas detectors. Ears, eyes, etc.
Now all of this mixes together calculating with one another to form your REALITY. In this reality is your idea of the universe, hence the universe is simply in your head.
Then again all of our knowledge is from second hand sources, anyone every seen the edge of the universe? Anyone ever been past our moon to see whats there? We gain our knowledge our the universe through telescopes, so pretty much how we figure out how far planets are away and how big our solar system, galaxy, universe is, is by LIGHT.
Now we have built up this huge idea of the space time continuem, with black holes, stars, gas clouds etc etc etc all from one sense. SIGHT, and if i remember correctly to grade school science light can be manipulated.

Another thing to think of:

If our universe is on subatomic scale to another universe, EG: Our universe is the Quark in the larger universe's atom...what happens if that atom is split?

Originally posted by Foxe
Another thing to think of:

If our universe is on subatomic scale to another universe, EG: Our universe is the Quark in the larger universe's atom...what happens if that atom is split?

A: we all die

B: their universe collides with ours.

C: (the coolest) their universe becomes a part of ours.

I think A is the most plausible answer in this situation.

Originally posted by Billing
One theory is that the universe is a 'hyper-sphere' what this means is that to three dimensional beings such as ourselves there is no ending, it is infinite. Like for a two dimensional being on a mobius strip.
A four dimensional being would see the universe as a hyper-sphere but it would be able to move beyond it.

I have always thought we are four dimensional beings because the forth dimension is time right? I mean I think a 3-D is somewhat like a 2-D except that a 3-D object stands out(you know what I mean). A 4-D object is a 3-D object except with time. So aren't we four dimensional beings. I think of a 5 Dimensional being as being an alien because I think the fifth dimension is called space.

Interesting thougt though. If aliens are 4-D that means that they can cross into different Universes. Though they would have to have ships that go very very very fast. Way faster than the speed of light, way way faster.

Edit= and according to Einstein if an object goes faster than the speed of light it goes back in time and keeps repeating the time travel. (hard to explain, my friend told it to me) So how do the aliens move? I mean they would have to be very advanced to do that. More advanced than we think.

[edit on 11/30/2005 by Conspiracy Theorist06]

I was just reading and thinking about the size of the universe. The universe is about 15 billion years old right? ANd the diameter of the universe is roughtly 27-30 billion light years or so they say. Well assuming that the big bang exploded in a fairly even circle that means that it expanded 15 billion light years in 15 billion years in each way. Does anyone but me have a problem with that? First things first matter isnt supposed to go the speed of light, let alone stay at that speed for 15 billion years. Logically it makes no sense for the universe to be that large especially considering that its a blue shift as opposed to a red shift of increasing amounts. I can go mor einto detail if need be but looking at this way tells me that the universe is simply not as large as claimed to be.

This kind of thing kind of scares me.

It is soo interesting, and I want to know.

But then, what would happen if we did know?
How would we live our lives?

Mystery creates curiosity.
Curiosity is a great sign of intelligence.

I always think of what is beyond the Universe. I mean when you get close to the end do you keep seeing stars at the border. Actually can see through the border (if there is one) and if you could see through it, what would you see? Just blackness? The matrix code? Another dimension? Aliens?

Originally posted by netbound
It seems to me sometimes that as science marches on, and technological advancement allows us to see deeper and deeper into both the micro and macro worlds,

Great post earlier btw.

I have sadly observed science marching backwards on many occasions making ever shallower observations...

the more our uncertainty grows over just what the nature of reality truely is.

Wich i think is the result of some very bad questions in many scientific areas...

upon level, world upon world, cosmos upon cosmos, reality upon reality, on and on infinitum.

I think all the various theories for different scales means the theories do not really reflect understanding of the whole but just small isolated subsets. Basically we have many theories dealing with the same thing because we do not understand it opt for the cowardly way out by selecting only certain paramaters....

Again, I ramble on. Unfortunately, I have no answers; only questions and endless curiosity.

That is how we all start on this planet! The only thing that changes with age is the increasing volume of questions we admit to having.

Keep up the good posting.

Stellar

If the universe ends then that is just where there is no more stars or planets, the universe takin out all the matter is just left as empty space with no properties.
The notion of alternate universies while good for sci-fi is quite illogical, if you changed just the smallest thing at pretty much any point in history then our world would be completly different, forget alternat impressions of out selfs they would have no relevence to us at all and wouldnt even look like us.
Finally (your all thinkin thank god) if the universe were curved so if you went in a straight line you would come back to where you were then if you went at a 90 degree angle from where you started you would either go straight through the centre of the universe or hit the outside of this sphere.

Thanks, StellarX, for the kind words and your comments. I agree with everything you said.

IMHO, it’s seriously doubtful we’ll ever know the full picture; not even close. It’s simply beyond us. It’s no doubt my negative thinking, but I’ve always had a feeling that if every scientist on Earth were to combine their efforts and focus on the same single one cubic foot/meter block of “space”, analyzing it until they knew EVERYTHING there was to know about it, not even time eternal would be sufficient for a thorough understanding. At the same time, however, I think it’s absolutely necessary that we forever strive to know and understand more. If the time ever comes that we lose that drive/desire, then we will surely fade away.

Interesting thougt though. If aliens are 4-D that means that they can cross into different Universes. Though they would have to have ships that go very very very fast. Way faster than the speed of light, way way faster.

Edit= and according to Einstein if an object goes faster than the speed of light it goes back in time and keeps repeating the time travel. (hard to explain, my friend told it to me) So how do the aliens move? I mean they would have to be very advanced to do that. More advanced than we think.

Conspiracy Theorist06, a Mexican theoretical physicist named Miguel Alcubierre had a good idea regarding faster than light travel. There are still some technical difficulties to overcome before it would be considered a real possibility, but non-the-less the basic idea is sound. And it doesn't even violate the sacred light speed limit. He suggested that we might create a warp bubble surrounding a locally flat region of spacetime that would basically travel along with spacetime itself, rather than traveling through it. The Universal speed limit of light that Einstein made famous only applies to objects traveling within the medium of spacetime; it says nothing about the velocity of spacetime itself; we don’t know if it has a limiting velocity. For a better explanation of the Alcubierre Warp Drive, you can find it at www.daviddarling.info....

IMHO, if we survive long enough, one day we will indeed break the speed of light barrier and become intergalactic, only to realize that we still have not even begun to scratch the surface ...

Interesting thoughts folks. Just a couple things tho. The latest measurements show the universe is not contracting but is still expanding, not only expanding but ACCELERATING! The big question is still What is it expanding into? Also the universe is most probably not a "sphere", i refer to the concept of fractured symmetry at the original big bang, also the universe is not just the 3D image of a sphere( or any other geometric shape) as there is at least 4 geometric dimensions (not just time as a 4th dimension) and theoritically even up to 13 geometric dimensions. As for starting at one point and ending right back where you started i refer you to Stephen Hawkins' book "A Brief History of Time", he explains the curved space effect in laymans terms without all the math. There is also a good theory called the membrane or M theory, it is the most updated version of string theory, I wish I could explain it to you but i barely understand parts of it, I can't seem to find a site that can dummy it down for me, I just have no idea what all the math means, but it seems to explain multiple universes and how the vacuum of space can spontaneously produce particles and their concurrent anti-particles. Just some ideas to get the intelectual juices flowing