NEWS: Women Forced To Marry Rapists Or Die

BH / the matrix

Of course I knew that the SCOTUS could make such a decree. Whether it would stick in this day and age without major civil uprising is another thing.

My response was to the current state of affairs. That's where we're living.

The mindset of the extremists in both religions is the same.

The only difference is that in the US, at the moment, the extremists ways aren't the accepted norm.

But they were in the past and the way the religious right is pushing forward the last decade or so, their ways are well on their way to become the legal and forced moral norm once again.

On the other hand, it isn't really a difference. In reality its also just the extremists and not the whole of Islam that agree with these honor killings.

Also, the religious extremists in the US doesn't alow abortion within their religion, so also don't alow anyone thats in their religion to have an abortion, even if their life depends on it. Although its their legal right.

[edit on 23/11/05 by thematrix]

Originally posted by AceOfBase
There is a major problem with Islam and there's no point in ignoring it.

Again, I never did nor do I deny this happens in Islam. This article however, U know, the topic of this particular thread, is not about Islamic women only it actually doesn't refer to Islamic women at all. I am well aware of the population of Mulsims in Turkey, and everywhere else in the ME. My comments were about THIS article, gee.

dgtempe U said it in a nutshell lady, that's what I was tryna get at earleir.

Originally posted by ImJaded
Again, I never did nor do I deny this happens in Islam. This article however, U know, the topic of this particular thread, is not about Islamic women only it actually doesn't refer to Islamic women at all. I am well aware of the population of Mulsims in Turkey, and everywhere else in the ME. My comments were about THIS article, gee.

The article in this thread has THIS picture at the top of it:

2211rapeb.jpg

How can you say that this article was not about Islamic women?


[edit on 23-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by AceOfBase
The article in this thread has THIS picture at the top of it:

2211rapeb.jpg

How can you say that this article was not about Islamic women?
[edit on 23-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

Oh my God! You're not serious ?
because of the PICTURE they used ?
Look up the word "propaganda" and then get back to me

Actually, let me just move on :shk:

Originally posted by ImJaded
Oh my God! You're not serious ?

because of the PICTURE they used ?
Look up the word "propaganda" and then get back to me

Actually, let me just move on :shk:

You're so deep in denial I don't think anything can change your mind.

They start the article with a picture of a muslim woman, they talk about a practice used most often by muslims and it was against women from a country that is more than 99% muslim. After all of that you say the story was not about muslims. :shk:


[edit on 23-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by thematrix
But they were in the past and the way the religious right is pushing forward the last decade or so, their ways are well on their way to become the legal and forced moral norm once again.

I honestly do not believe that women's rights are something that will ebb and flow like the tides. Now that they have been won, they will not be given back.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
They start the article with a picture of a muslim woman, they talk about a practice used most often by muslims and it was against women from a country that is more than 99% muslim. After all of that you say the story was not about muslims. :shk:

I do not believe "implied" news, is that easer to understand ?
If what U had just typed was stated in the article or the thread topic, theni would address it. I was merely noting that others were "implying" also.
U read your news as U do and I shall as I do, ther eis no need to argue here I am sure we both feel the same on the actual issue at hand, no matter where it is taking place or whoit is effecting.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
I did not realize such killings were common in Turkey, I knew they were a problem in Pakistan, Afganistan, Egypt and even in India, but Turkey prides itself on being secular, so I would not have expected them to be that widespread there. On a related note, the treatment of young Islamic women and teen age girls throughout Europe is shocking. From what I have read, gang rape of them is rampant.

Until prosecution of the men and assisting women involved in these crimes occurs on a much wider basis I don't expect much will change. Right now it is difficult because even the police condone the underlying beliefs.

This happens very frequently and it even happens in Europe more often than we are led to believe, and I don't mean only on France.

I don't have a link, but the last time I looked into this subject area, the worldwide leader in this type of killing was India. I could not agree more with the contention that education is the correct way to address the problem. However, though most countries throughout the region have laws against such killings (as well as all the other forms of "punishment" short of killing) they do little to enforce those laws--That must change. Also, more than a little of the problem would go away if local governments would be a little more equitable in their distribution of aid and services. The very recent rioting in France offers ample evidence of the inequalities that need to be addressed (all around the world).

[edit on 23-11-2005 by Astronomer68]

The one thing I don't get, and I admit I don't keep track of these cases on a regular basis, is if it is evident these women are being killed by their families where are the legal proceedings that usually follow a murder ?
Maybe I am being naive on this but does anybody have some info to share on this ?

Also what, if any, kind of real help these women do have available to them ?


[edit on 23-11-2005 by ImJaded]

Originally posted by ImJaded
The one thing I don't get, and I admit I don't keep track of these cases on a regular basis, is if it is evident these women are being killed by their families where are the legal proceedings that usually follow a murder ?

It is legal in Jordan, or at least it was in 1999 and I don't think it's changed yet. This is from a Jordanian Government website, speaking about trying to change the practice:

noor.gov.jo

...a section of article 340 in the Jordanian Penal Code (no 16, 1960) stating that "he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one of them, is exempted from any penalty”;

It's also legal in Syria:

Dying for the Family Honor

1. He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants, descendants or sister committing adultery or illegitimate sexual acts with another and he killed or injured one or both of them benefits from an exemption of penalty.

2. He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants, descendants or sister in a "suspicious" state with another benefits from a reduction of penalty.

It's legal to kill your wife and whoever she's with in Morocco if you catch them in the act.

In the Name of Honour

Article 418 of the Penal Code states "Murder, injury and beating are excusable if they are committed by a husband on his wife as well as the accomplice at the moment in which he surprises them in the act of adultery."

It is apparently also legal to do this in Haiti.

Apparently it is illegal in Pakistan but in many cases it is not prosecuted and the issue is not pursued by the police.

Pakistan's honor killings enjoy high-level support

"These traditions need to be changed, but how? Through education and public awareness," he said.

But the brutal practice does have a role to play, he said.

"The tribal custom came into being centuries ago to put a check on adultery and to protect the weak against the stronger and wealthy. Do we discourage adultery, or encourage it?"

Hundreds of Pakistani women are murdered for "honor" every year, usually by relatives who argue that love marriages or affairs sully their name.

In many cases, the killer goes free, because local police and prosecutors do not consider it a crime.

wow see now I had some idea that it was acceptable but to this extent is just horrifying.

This angers me SO much. I very recently lost my 32 yr old cousin who was beaten and stabbed to death by her husband, apparently for no known reason. I won't go into further details (they are truly horrifying) though the one thing I can say I am glad about is that it happened here in Australia, because the police are all over it and he is being charged as I type. Although to me, no sentence handed down by a judge will be a sufficient punishment.
These type of murders are the worst of the worst kind IMO, to think that your own flesh and blood ...

I'ma just leave it here.

This is not a subject that sees much discussion in the media. I don't know if that's because the subject makes us feel guilty, or what, but in general honor killings--and other punishments--do not receive much publicity. In some places you can be raped or killed, or both, just for wearing the wrong articles of clothing, or kissing your boyfriend in public, etc..... There is an ongoing case in Pakistan just now concerning a young woman who was gang raped by (I think) 6 men on orders of the tribal elders. She has been trying to get justice ever since the incident and the President of Pakistan himself has had to get involved because of all the press it has received.

[edit on 23-11-2005 by Astronomer68]

Wow. I just realized from AceOfBase's post that in Syria, it's technically legal to kill one of your parents for this type of crime!

He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants, descendants or sister

Has anyone ever heard of a parent being killed by an offspring, for adultery?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Wow. I just realized from AceOfBase's post that in Syria, it's technically legal to kill one of your parents for this type of crime!

He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants, descendants or sister

Has anyone ever heard of a parent being killed by an offspring, for adultery?

hmmmm just for adultery or, for arguement's sake, could one kill one of their parents if they killed their sibling in an "honor killing" ??
I bet it doesn't go both ways.

Originally posted by ImJaded

I very recently lost my 32 yr old cousin who was beaten and stabbed to death by her husband, apparently for no known reason.

I am sorry to hear about this.



and


WHO Multi-country Study on Women's Health and Domestic Violence against Women)

.

[edit on 24-11-2005 by Riwka]

//From the Daily Telegraph 22 Nov 2005

A village council in Pakistan has decreed that five young women should be abducted, raped or killed for refusing to honour childhood "marriages".

The women, who are cousins, were married in absentia by a mullah in their Punjabi village to illiterate sons of their family's enemies in 1996, when they were aged from six to 13. //

Source

Just the latest example... Why can't we stand up and say this is not acceptable behaviour according to *our* own codes of morality and ethics (wherever they spring from?) . We're constantly being assaulted by religous fundamentalists (of whatever creed) who are telling us how we should live our lives - why can't we speak up?

You most certainly have the right to step up and say something about this horrific practice. You can work to put those responsible under a big spotlight so that the world can see what is happening. There are many ways you can work to put a stop to this.

Unfortunately, the thing you cannot do is go to that country and put yourself between a victim and her attacker. At least, I wouldn't reccommend it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I agree that this is a terrible practice. However, I'm with dgtempe and Amethyst. We cannot be the keepers for the morality of the world's people. We could probably look into every country and every religion and find something that we don't approve of and think needs to change.

The best way to avoid looking at one's own problems is to concentrate on someone else's. We need to mind our own business especially as regards another culture's religion or morality! It's none of our business.

Wow! But where do you draw the line? People being murdered for things they did not have any control over seems a case where there can be no argument across the board. It is wrong, regardless of religion or morality, isn't it?

There is a lot in this world people should be minding their own business over, but can this be considered one of them? Where do you get to that point where we are faced with the only thing for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing?

When should someone stand up and but in? Not till they come for us?

I am a little stunned about this take coming from a board of fight the NWO, Christian Right, etc. views. Is there a difference I am missing here? Are we sure?