OOBE - the dark side. What hasn't been discussed

Originally posted by bsbray11So the question is, do they really exist and only bother people that believe in them, or are they only in our heads? Either way, it seems more appropriate to assume they don't exist.

Could it be that the same belief / intent mechanism is creating the experience itself? I mean if it is your mind / imagination that's giving you a beating from a demon, could not the whole experience be part of the same effect?

I don't have great projection experience and mostly I find myself staring at walls etc while removed from my body. It has occurred to me that my mind could be creating the reality. Usually I get a whoosh pop experience. Sometimes it is scary as I have not expected it and on occasions I sense something there and I find myself struggling back to blighty, rather than test the water and continue.

It feels frustrating sometimes not to proceed but there again I don't feel I am missing too much. What real use is it? A sly look at my sister in laws breasts in her bathroom? A cheaper, flight free holiday in Bali? I don't know

Originally posted by bash the bishop

Originally posted by bsbray11So the question is, do they really exist and only bother people that believe in them, or are they only in our heads? Either way, it seems more appropriate to assume they don't exist.

Could it be that the same belief / intent mechanism is creating the experience itself? I mean if it is your mind / imagination that's giving you a beating from a demon, could not the whole experience be part of the same effect?

I don't have great projection experience and mostly I find myself staring at walls etc while removed from my body. It has occurred to me that my mind could be creating the reality. Usually I get a whoosh pop experience. Sometimes it is scary as I have not expected it and on occasions I sense something there and I find myself struggling back to blighty, rather than test the water and continue.

It feels frustrating sometimes not to proceed but there again I don't feel I am missing too much. What real use is it? A sly look at my sister in laws breasts in her bathroom? A cheaper, flight free holiday in Bali? I don't know

Its one path to enlightenment. so id say its pretty damn important! ive only managed to OOB once and i noticed a lot of little astral parasites but you need to remember that they are feeding off you in everyday life anyway so as long as you stay calm they arent realy a problem or anything to even pay attention to. i AM interested if anyone knows what it is that keeps astral bodies out of military areas and if theres any way around it?

That's a very interesting spin on the topic and made me think a little.

Most, if not all posters to OOBE threads on ATS are from people wanting to get out and have a look around, further themselves spiritually and basically gain confirmation that the astral realm does in fact exist.

The question now is, is it possible to 'be' a neg? Can one who is competent in OOBE'ing decide, hmm.. tonight, I will go and harass a few people?
Negative entities are protrayed as ominous, usually large, dark and fearsome with the capability to make you feel afraid.
Can one change their appearance in the astral realm to emulate these entities?
Is it possible these entitys are other OOBE'ers looking to make trouble?

I know there are next to no people who might want to do this on these boards, however that should mean those who do know are the ones who are getting out and looking around.

I just don't want to believe that when we humans manage to 'get out' and have an OOBE, we are like little white mice running around a corn field, hoping the big bad eagle isn't going to spot us. When it inevitabley does, must we hope God or something like God will come to the rescue each time upon reciting the right words?

If the astral realm isn't meant for us to be there, then why can we go?
If it is allowable for us to visit, why must we be so helpless?
If it's a matter of 'growing' in the astral realm through experience, thereby gaining confidence and power, is it not possible to then be a 'neg' as I posed in a question above?

I am sorry about the long post but once I got started I just couldn't stop. Heh.. peace

There was a person here on ATS that 'climed' to have much power in the Astral....that they had been a MASTER of OOBE for years...they did not claim this in threads, but in the chatroom.
I wanted a REAL teacher so I got into IM with this person and they claimed that for fun they would act as a neg almost every night. They said it was excersise.

After much IM time...this person (ask me 'who' in u2u I will tell you) NEVER ONCE gave me a single snippet of good advise on how to achieve OOBE, and when I learned something, like keeping your jaw very loose, they would say...."oh did'nt I tell you that allready? duh on me lol"....so I ended up with the distinct impression they had truly zero Astral knowledge or experience and were just a wannabe.............and this is now my true belief about this person........they were/are all talk, nothing more.
So I don't know IF OOBE folks act out as a neg or not......I would think when you learn enough to navagate the Astral your fairly advanced Spiritually so you most likely would not behave that way.
IMHO.
You would be busy dealing with your own 'stuff' for the things to be learned are limitless................

[edit on 16-4-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

TRG,

I would agree that once one had that much experience in the astral, one wouldn't need to act out as a neg. I know I would be too busy searching for my own answers to bother picking on anyone, besides the fact it's not in my nature to do so.

I'll hold off asking more questions for now because I think i've put enough out there ATM.. heh

There are good and evil people and therfore good and evil projectors.

I have astralled for many years and have had a number of negative experiences, but one in particular involved another projector who was performing astral attacks upon a friend. My friend thought that she was being suffocated etc. At one point she called me as this was happening and I astralled to her house. I immediately used an energy blast (similar to the pysic energy balls seen in other threads here) and whaled into the attacker, who immediately fled the area.
My friend was able to confirm all of these things later, having felt my precense in the room as well as the departure of the attacker. I then taught her some protection incantations/prayers and she hasn't had any further problems.

I think that often our guides (or higher beings ) often protect us whilst we astral until we are capable of protecting ourselves, that is why noobs don't typically have any negative issues in astral - it is only the mre advanced that will be challenged as this is not only part of our learning - it is part of our purpose, to wage a war of sorts against evil.

Wow, that was melodramatic, but I stand by the basic ideology there even if it does sound fantastic.

You ask why are we helpless there? far from it! on the astral plane we are even more powerful then in real life. your very thoughts can bend the astral planes with only imagination being your limit. i also said it was a path to enlightenment because(and ive only read this part) apparently you can go to many many levels in your astral body and even travel to gods own realm. from what ive studied the astral body is our true form and only in our true form can we find the truth. too bad something stops me projecting any more

Yeah but, how do you know if these people really did get out? There's so many people saying this and saying that. You can die, your cord can be cut, you can go werever you want, does it mean a damn thing? Not really, you don't know what there really doing. For all you guys know, they might be high or something else. I'm sorry i don't really believe in negative entitites, not the akashic records. They kinda seem a little new agey right? And guess who started it, madame blavatsky, the queen of modern new age.

Originally posted by malakiem
I'm sorry i don't really believe in negative entitites, not the akashic records. They kinda seem a little new agey right? And guess who started it, madame blavatsky, the queen of modern new age.

Blavatsky did not start it.. she just popularized the term akashic records. The same basic idea is also found in Sufism, Druze, the Kabbalah, Yoga, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc...

the astral realm is the realm of emotion and desire,

the more control you have over your emotions and desires the less inconviniences you`ll have there.

do breathing exercises before an astral trip,

this will help raise your vibrations and keep you above the lower realms where these entities exist.

the astral realm along with the mental realm comprise our basic threefold existence,

the more you learn to master your emotions and thoughts the easier it will be for you to master astral travel.

avoid strong emotional excitement of any kind,

it will drain your astral body of its energy and keep you at the lower realms where the negative astral entities have their hangouts.

the more emotional and desire energy you store the stronger you will become in the astral,

these astral entities can`t harm you but they can scare you and they know it,

that is why you must never fear,

noone or anything,

rememebr you are an eternal being and they are not,

they are jealous of that fact and wish to keep you confused and in fear, becuase their food is emotional energy,

avoid all things that produce stresfull excitement or high emotions such as sports events, movie theaters, bars, drugs,

these entities swarm to these places and cling to you,

you come back home with them on your body and they in turn have found a new home with a regular feed....you.

cleanse you home...especially your bedroom with inscence other items,

regurlarly,

also do an auric cleansing at least once a month,

for the parasites you may pick up on the streets.

the more you learn about the astral realm the easier your ascension will be.

take care.

Adonis.

Hi,

Im following this guy.

www.beyondweird.com...

The 'negs' could be your fears, that when you are awake are inside
and when astral these fears are real objects, entities, thought-forms.

So far only lucid dreaming every week or soo.

[]´s
RP

As someone who has astral projected i can tell you there are things that dont seem to sit right. They might not always be negative though. I dont get why we call them "negs". I think these things are different types of energy that really does not sit right with you or somehow does not compute with your energy. Thats what i believe and sometimes they scare me but then again im pretty sure there are scarier things in the this era.

Yes I will respond too, as it seems the OP has not actually OBEd himself.

"Negative" does not necesarily mean evil.

Every culture period regocnizes demons/evil spirits, period, there is no reason to assume that one dogma is more right about them than others. I do find it interesting though that these cultures regognize different levels of spiritual involvement in daily lives and thought.

IMO Some are just different types of energy, some are projections of your own fear/hatred/anger, others are manipulative and somewhat vampiric, but not evil.

I think just like you seldom meet a person or spirit that is completely good, the truly bad ones are rare too.

The important thing to remember is, you are on their playing ground.

I am sure all will be very very pleased with something I have at the Media Portal,

Go to the following group and look for "The Official Remote Viewing Document" all you could ever want to know on this, as used by the US military in training

Its in this Group headed "The Official Remote Viewing Manual"

I will get some media there over the next couple of days to, on this subject with very experienced OOB'Es and remote viewers who do not in any way share most of the comments on this thread.

I will say one thing before I get time to add this, be very careful of any magik, magical, or such practises married to OOB'Es without really really really knowing the source of the practise you use, and what it really entails. Real danger lurks in playing with fire unless you are a fireman.

Kind regards,

Elf

Refer to my last OoBE thread: HERE

As many very famous and experienced Astral Travelers have said, you can in no way be injured through these experiences.
I believe that.
I think you can become witness to some scary things (perhaps see something unpleasant) but it is only because it is the truth.

It all depends on your own idea of AP to me. If you go into with that on your mind, you may find yourself in a scary place. You wont be hurt, but you may be scared of the dark.
I truly believe you should go into Astral Projection to open your mind and lift your consciousness, not because you think it would be a cool thing to try.

reply to post by Odessy


MMMM

There is much and I mean several thousands years worth of anecdotal and written experiences of even "master Yogi's" who have spent 20-30 yrs 14 hours a day developing total control of their mind, and knowing this inside out, and who see everything as an "projection" and Illusion anyhow, encountering the following:

1) Returning to their body and it has been inhabited by a different if malevolant energy / mind etc and not being able to return or break free from the connection either!

2) Having attatchments or entities latching onto them. ONLY BECAUSE they were soo powerful in the mind as said after 30 odd yrs of 14 hour a day meditation and practise etc, where they able to see this happening and know about it, Average Joe would think it was a great "mind Expanding" experience and not be aware of what happened.

3) Their body being disturbed whilst in the astral and swallowing their own tongue and dying.

4) Upon danger in physical, or an event accident like fire happening not being aware of it till too late.

I could go on.

And many experienced and not "pop" OObE practitioners have reported real problems in modern times as I said, I will get some Audio onto my media profile over the next day or two for you all to digest and consider.


Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


I've heard these as well, but I have a counter argument.
I believe Astral Projection is a path to higher consciousness. As such, it is a natural process in life for those developing their consciousness, and how can a natural process be dangerous? In fact, many people AP without knowing it while they dream. Their consciousness may be asleep, but it doesnt change the fact that they are APing.

I'm in no way saying that what you say is untrue, though some links would be beneficial for my own knowledge if you can provide them. These experiences you mention could be caused from other practices that intertwined with AP. Like you mentioned earlier,

I will say one thing before I get time to add this, be very careful of any magik, magical, or such practises married to OOB'Es without really really really knowing the source of the practise you use, and what it really entails. Real danger lurks in playing with fire unless you are a fireman.

What you speak of here is not simply Astral Projection but the practice of magik and other practices that may make you more susceptible to such encounters and experiences while having an OoBE.
Or, like many stories, they could be myths or urban legends meant to warn or dis-way one from trying to open up their mind.

We all have our own realities, and this is what I chose to believe from experience. If my opinion changes, i'll be sure to let you know, but from my studies, AP is a normal process, and one that should be embraced.


[edit on 26-2-2009 by Odessy]

reply to post by Odessy


Can you see peoples auras in the flesh my friend?

Can you see disembodied spirits in a mediumistic way when you are just in the normal life in body?

HOW THEN in the name of all that is sane do you think you would be able to see these things when you go OOB'E properly?

You see people think they are God or superman when they experience this, but it like the material world is an illusion, and until you can see through the illusion of the material it is best to stay out of the Astral..

Elf.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Once again, I respect your personal opinion, but the life I walk has lead me down a different road and I dont think anyone can judge who is or is not ready for the Astral but themselves.

You don't need to see people's auras or metaphysical while present in the physical to determine if you are ready for Astral Projection. Many monks only visit realms in the Astral while meditating, and in the physical are very aware of the physical. We live in two realms; the one we see while our body is awake, and the ones we see while our minds are awake. No one is claiming to be a god, and as such, no one should judge whether someone is ready to explore the astral.

The first time I ventured into the Astral, I dont think I was ready, realized that, and was back in my body within 20 seconds. But the fact that I visited on accident, without trying, to me at least, suggests that I was ready and that it was a natural process to those ready to open their minds to the ideas. No I am not perfect. I do live life asleep every now and then, but I am trying to be fully awake at all times, and I do believe that only you know when you are ready.

The 2nd Dalai Lama talked about Dream Yoga (Astral Projection) and even tried explaining the best way of going about it. He said to practice every day, while your awake, asking yourself if this is real, if your awake. Eventually, you will start to ask yourself in your dreams and realize your dreaming. When that starts to happen, you have more control over your consciousness while your awake and while your asleep. Here is the link: Dalai Lama's Teachings on Practicing Dream Yoga. He didnt say, "You can only Astral Travel if you can see peoples auras etc etc." He believed everyone is ready to be awakened, as judging by the state of the world today, hes right.
The Astral is beautiful, I wouldn't be dissuaded by such stories. The human mind is an incredible tool, use it.

-Odessy


[edit on 27-2-2009 by Odessy]