OOBE - the dark side. What hasn't been discussed

Hi all experienced astral travellers.

I have started this thread (my first one) because I personally have in interest in knowing what i'm about to ask.

There are several active threads at the moment concerning OOBE and how best to achieve them, of which I have been following for a few weeks now.
My curiousness concerns the fact that experienced travellers would rather not share their bad experiences.

I fully understand why; also I do not wish to scare or put others off trying.
I myself am still learning.

I would like to open up discussion on these things that are not discussed in other threads and hear peoples not-so-good experiences while in the astral realm.
For example (from another thread), looking into a TV doesn't produce very nice results?

I guess I am trying to get a more complete understanding on the good and the not so good things which can occur.
I also realise that travellers attest to not fearing, and that fear empowers the negative occurences.

Please post your thoughts on any personaly experiences, especially if you've previously posted "but I won't go into that" on another OOBE thread

[edit on 19/11/2005 by under4orce]

Well according to what I've read, there is really no danger. The astral body cannot be harmed, except if the person chooses to do so consciously or unconsciously.

This following link is a google on astral projection FAQs and dangers.

Astral Projection FAQ's

[edit on 19-11-2005 by TheBandit795]

My experience is limited, i haven't obtained a complete OOBE yet, but i know some theory.

As far as i know, there are no side effects to OOBE, except for the ones created by your own mind.

For example, during an OOE, there may be NO televisions at all, unless you want otherwise: you perceive your surroundings through your mind, through the way your mind translates inputs, so that depends mainly on you. I've read that what you see during an OOBE may not correspond to what you could see during normal life: for example, let's say you've got a TV in your bedroom. Well, during your OOBE, there may be NO TV in your bedroom, depending on how your perception is.
At leats, that's what i've read.

Anyway, all i can tell you so far is to read both William Buhlman's books about OOBE: there you may find lots of informations, and i think this author can be considered reliable.

I'm gonna have to disagree with Sparhawk. It's not all internal. There are separate beings out there, and they will mess around with you. If you spend enough time in the astral, you are bound to run into one of these.

Without personal details, most of the astral horror stories you will encounter about astral projection involve "Negative Entities". They are essentially what most people would consider demons. They can turn into your worst fear, say horrible stuff to you (Not like "hurt your feelings" kind of stuff, but put you in disbelief about your most core beliefs, etc. Like blasphemy x 1000). Negs range from varying degrees. From newbies like people who are new to AP, to the most powerful and unstoppable ones. You might suddenly find yourself with a giant black cloud floating above you, or a person with very strange looking eyes. They can come in a very large variety of forms.

Although you cannot be harmed, you can still be hurt. A little technicality there. For example, a neg can beat the crap out of you and man, you will certainly feel it. But you won't actually get hurt or die from it. Imagine getting stabbed to death and raped for an hour straight, and then getting up and walking away from it. While no physical damage is done, there is a lot of scary stuff out there that can cause quite a bit of emotional damage. Sometimes to the point of insanity if you are that overwhelmed by it.

If you try to fight back, you will likely get your butt kicked. If you try to run, you will never make it away, except back to your body.

On a lighter note, there are actually ways of dealing with such entities and getting rid of them, should you encounter them. And of course, there are just as many good entities out there as bad, if not more.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

Man, i didn't think such things could happend!

But, is there some way to defend against there "demons"?

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Man, i didn't think such things could happend!

But, is there some way to defend against there "demons"?

To be protected against Negative Entities all you have to do is know that you will not perceive them during your projection.

All other forms of protections, such as conjurations, rely on this.


[edit on 19/11/2005 by AkashicWanderer]

In a nutshell, we could say "if you don't allow it to have power on you, it can't harm you", have i got it right?

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Man, i didn't think such things could happend!
But, is there some way to defend against there "demons"?

Okay now we're really going off the deep end into the weird stuff. lol.

There are different ways of dealing with negs. The easiest way would just be to yell out for help, and hopefully someone will come running to help that is (spiritually) advanced enough to fight them off. Another way is through using conjurations/circles of protection. Both involve the use of... "magic", of sorts, I suppose you could describe it. Well, a mix of magic and prayer. A circle of protection is basically a preventitive measure, while a conjuration is something you use when you are actually faced with a neg.

That's just to name a few basic ways. Of course, negs have some tricks up their sleeves too. Try saying a conjuration when a neg decides to seal your mouth shut (Don't ask me how, but they can do it). If you ever get into this situation, just say it mentally and it will have the same effect. The sealing shut thing is an attempt to scare you so badly that you stop saying it and think that it is hopeless.

Anyways, I recommend that beginners not concern themselves with such things at first. The chance that you will run into a neg in your first projections is quite slim. Go out and have fun and just use a blissful ignorance to what I have discussed here. This is why most people with bad experiences keep it quiet, because they know the astral is essentially a good place, with a few bad apples and pranksters. It tends to scare beginners out to know such things. Just like you wouldn't want to be a police officer if you saw all the stats on how many crimes occur in your area.

If you really want detailled info for astral defense, you can U2U me. But I don't think most people really have a need. Especially in the beginning.

Originally posted by Sparhawk
In a nutshell, we could say "if you don't allow it to have power on you, it can't harm you", have i got it right?

Yes exactly.

Many people say conjurations to protect themselves during astral projections. These conjurations work not because of the words which are said, but because of the intent behind the words. The intent is a deep knowing that by saying the conjuration, no negative entity will be perceived.

We can take it one step further. Remove all rituals and conjurations, and leave only the intent. This method is many times more powerful, as you will not always have time to vocalize a conjuration when a negative entity is near.

We could say, more or less, like Matrix, during Neo's training, when he has to jump from one building to another... You don't have to try and hit me. Just HIT me or at least, something like that...

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Sparhawk]

I would have to say I believe half of it is intent, and half of it is appealing to a higher power. I agree that the words can be altered slightly, but I think that if the intent altogether is changed, you will find that a conjuration will no longer work. Although I can't say I have tried it, so you may be right.

But now we are getting entirely off into another, very complex area of astral projection. I think the author's original intent was what kind of bad things you can encounter in the astral, not how to deal with them.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

The only possible harm I think can come of OBE is only distress from fear of the unknown, or some other psychological thing from being unprepared. I believe Monroe wrote of going "out" so "far" that his physical body began to die during his experiences, but I don't think anyone worried about the harm in OBE's will have to worry about something like that anytime soon.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
I'm gonna have to disagree with Sparhawk. It's not all internal. There are separate beings out there, and they will mess around with you. If you spend enough time in the astral, you are bound to run into one of these.

I think even those "separate beings" are internal, or at least only have the power you allow them in your mind.

It's rather interesting because, although a lot of OBE experiencers/etc. that believe in negs will swear to you that they are real, and that they themselves have encountered so many, those that don't really believe in negs never have any problems.

I come from the Astral Pulse forums, where I've read quite a body of study and intelligent discussion coming from today's Monroe's, and even Robert Bruce himself. These guys have been doing this stuff for years, and while Robert Bruce believes in negs and can recount so many encounters over his decades of experience, Frank Kepple, following in the steps of Monroe, with similar decades of experience (if not more) has realized how much power we have over our experiences, and doesn't believe in negs as separate entities, reporting absolutely no encounters with them.

So the question is, do they really exist and only bother people that believe in them, or are they only in our heads? Either way, it seems more appropriate to assume they don't exist.

They can turn into your worst fear, say horrible stuff to you (Not like "hurt your feelings" kind of stuff, but put you in disbelief about your most core beliefs, etc. Like blasphemy x 1000).

Sort of like when people have bad trips on psychadelics, eh? Like personal insecurities surfacing.

The Astral Pulse forums are very friendly and can provide you with much deeper insight when it comes to OBEs, being a mostly practicing community heavily influenced by schools of thought associated with both Bruce and Monroe (and Frank Kepple, himself being from the AP forums). Check out the forums here.

Ah Monroe. One of my favourite authors on the subject. Good that you bring him up. Even he was attacked by negs. I forget if it was in Journeys Out of The Body or Far Journeys.... no I think it was JOTB. He was sleeping over at a relatives house and the kid kept crying because there was a monster in their room. And then Monroe went to bed and projected, and soon he was attacked by a crazy neg jumping onto his back and not letting go, etc.

Not a big fan of Bruce, but if I recall, he has an entire book devoted to Psychic Self-Defense. Now if he's an expert and he thinks that an entire book is needed to deal with such things, obviously I think there must be something out there. Or else the book would be two pages long, explaining that if you don't believe in it, it won't hurt you. Instead of hundreds of pages, telling you how to really deal with them.

Sorry, I just refuse to believe that they are some sort of "Freddie Krueger" that can only hurt you if you believe in it/feed it fear. I know some very positive people who project without a single thought of fear or doubt, and still end up faced with negs. But I guess we just have a difference of opinions. And that's okay too =).

I do think that subconcious things can materialize in the astral and cause some problems, but there are actual independant, "living" beings as well.

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate them.

The thread seems to have attracted the same types of posts common in the other OOBE threads - the hows and whys of negative entities encountered on the astral plane.

Although this discussion is relevant to the topic, I am very curious to read about others personal experiences.

Have you encountered a 'neg' before? What happened? Did you manage to fight it off or did you simply return to your body?
Do they try to attack the cord that connects you to your body? Are they able to have an effect on this?

I am by no means attempting to stir upsetting memories amongst OOBErs, so only share if you are comfortable doing so.

~matt

You can find a lot of posted astral experiences (good and bad) here, and a thread linking to OBE journals.

One experience that fits ATS nicely is posted on page 4 there...

This happened quite a while ago...

I was typing about using AP to do something the US Government wouldn't take much fancy to. Anyway, as I finnished the second word, I 'blacked' out, if you will. A small 'movie' played in my mind. There were two 'men' at my door. They were in tan/beige suits wearing sunglasses. Now, if you look up (And wast time) on conspiricy theories, you know that what I saw were probably the infamous MIB. No, not Will Smith, but the MIB that come to people who know to much about something or came to close to a secret.

What the hell happened? Is it something that didn't happen because I didn't post that thread, or is it something I am causing to happen by posting this!?

And here's the site's "Psychic Self-Defense" section, which has experiences and other posts more relevant to your request, like this excerpt from this post:

...today, when I started OBing, I felt this 'presence' right next to me, and even though i started yelling at it, (i even showed it the finger lol), it didn't go away. It just stayed there, and I got really scared. I was trying to wake up, but I couldn't. I tried to get out of the room, but it's been really hard for me to do that. I couldn't do it today either. I started calling out my grandfather (who usually appears, he's passed away some months ago) but he didn't show up. Eventually, I woke up. After that, I was as scared as I used to be when I was a child. (I'm 22). I didn't wanna open my eyes or anything.

I'm pretty sure it's not a dream...can anyone tell me what this is about?
Thank you!

[edit on 20-11-2005 by bsbray11]

Have you encountered a 'neg' before?

The times I have been out, I get out mostly through involuntary methods.

The only time I've encounterd a "Neg" as u put it was, when I came out of my body through a "Lucid Dream" state ,

anyway, After I seperated I found myself in a greyscale/almost Bluish void of sorts, with strange pulsating lights orbs and wieird noises,

after a while I was very disoriantated as to where I was
not being in local 1 or local 2 as usual.

I senced a very powerfull entity close by, it was close but at a higher level/plane than I was at so I couldent see it, but I could sence it and it was DARK in every way possible.

I could hear it and it was shouting at me, It was getting louder and more violent and I could feel like a force or static on me as it got closer,

the thing was that it wasen't getting closer at all

IT WAS PULLING ME TOWARDS IT into the upper level, this really frightend me,

but then I senced two other entities around me, good ones.

they couldent pull me back or get rid of the other dark spirit, but they took the voice of a certain person who I work with,

he was telling me to focus on them and there voices and I did, as i was listening to them, the sound and feeling of the "neg" grew fainter and fainter,

soon after I sliped back down into my body, back into the Lucid dream, than back into a normal dream, then I woke up.

looking back It was a good experiance to have.

Hi all.

It's been over a year since I posted this thread and I would like to breathe new life into it by asking anyone if they have had any recent experiences pertaining to the topic of this thread? Also because things are rather quiet around here at the moment.

I still can't lay still long enough without getting an itch or having to swallow annoyingly to get out and experience these things for myself - I try often and im getting lucid dreams less and less. Real bummer for me..

Please share anything you've experienced where you've had to stick up for yourself, been saved or .. something else?

From what i've read, you could call for your spiritual guides, although i have no idea whether they would be able to protect you/fight off a negative entity..

Everyone is supposed to have at least 2 guides. I remember reading that they mite be people you have known in other lifetimes etc, and that you could infact be a guide to someone else when not incarnated.

I have been trying to astral project with varying levels of commitment and success over the past 18 months. In that time, I can't really say that I have achieved a definite full blown OOBE, just semi-OOBE on a few occasions. However I am, and have always been able to lucid dream regularly. In my lucid dreaming experiences, which are the closest thing I can relate to OOBE, when I encounter an undesirable situation, I am supremely powerful, to the extent that I can phase to another more desirable dimension at will instantly. It is because of these experiences that I adhere to the notion that negative entities do exist externally, but within yourself you have the power to overcome them with ease.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I believe Monroe wrote of going "out" so "far" that his physical body began to die during his experiences

I have all Robert Monroes books and last fall and winter re read them all, so I am very clear that there is nowhere on them where he makes ANY kind of claim of his body starting to die no matter how far he went.

Today in the mail came the Robert Bruce book I ordered off Amazon called 'Practical Psychic Self Defense'..............to school myself on protection. I am aware 'bad things' can be out there and I would rather be prepared.

In my OOBE adventures I only ran into one scarey thing. It looked to me like a very big version of the 'Snuggle Bear'......it never hurt me but it was frightening me, and seemed to have some kind of power over wether I could get out of body or not. It went away after burning alot of sage smoke in my house, and also burning a Katchina doll. I have never had an issue with 'the bear thing' since.