UK police guns

Originally posted by bmdefiant
Not sure but is the MOD Police SA80 military issue or is it single shot ? I think one reason for the MP7 replacement was to get rid of the 2 weapon types (pistol and SA80) although im sure the MOD Operational Support Unit must use a variety of types of weapons for their varied operational roles.Im sure the SA80 is just too big and powerful for the type of uses the MOD Police require ie range as they dont require an infantry weapon but something a lot less big.

Standard issue '80s and 9 mils. They were used because of the ease procurement. The contract with the MOD allows them to use certain MOD weapons. This saves on money and allows the local (military) unit armourer to sort out the weapons with no problems.

Originally posted by bmdefiant

Originally posted by FactoryLad
The MOD Police used to use SA80's. They've now made the swap to H&K 9mm MP7's for some unknown reason. Cost probably.

Not sure but is the MOD Police SA80 military issue or is it single shot ? I think one reason for the MP7 replacement was to get rid of the 2 weapon types (pistol and SA80) although im sure the MOD Operational Support Unit must use a variety of types of weapons for their varied operational roles.Im sure the SA80 is just too big and powerful for the type of uses the MOD Police require ie range as they dont require an infantry weapon but something a lot less big.

Similar weapons to SA80:

Steyr AUG family
FAMAS
Ruger/Muzzelite MZ-14
AWC Bullpup (M-14 Bullpup conversion by FBI)
www.securityarms.com...

Dont the MOD Police/Guard Service use the Parker Hale PDW for self defence?, SA80s have a selector swich for semi/full auto fire, i have never seen an SA80 capable of only single shot unless u mean the L98 cadet rifle.



'Real men fight with thier hands but there is more fun with a gun!'.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Browno]

Originally posted by Browno
Dont the MOD Police/Guard Service use the Parker Hale PDW for self defence?, SA80s have a selector swich for semi/full auto fire, i have never seen an SA80 capable of only single shot unless u mean the L98 cadet rifle.
[edit on 19-11-2005 by Browno]

No, the SA80 is currently issued, along with the Browning. PDW may have been trialed, but they are certainly not on current issue. As for the SA80, the Mod Plod use the standard weapon, with the fully automatic option. They would be hard-pressed to justify the use of the automatic option if it came to it though.

Dont the RUC use the Ruger Mini 14 still?. If they do, they could revamp them with the Muzzelite stock and have them bullpup converted. They would then be more handy when they come to confined spaces such as allyways etc. It would come useful when it comes to Riots/Street fighting and other urban warfare situations.

RUC ssue weapons - Glock pistols, HK33 rifles with folding or solid stocks, HK MP5A3 SMG. The Mini 14 hasn't been used for about 20 years.

MDP use mp5s too; the guy who wanders round the MOD whithall buildings is MDP and armed with one.

The main thing i've noticed is that the armed police used to carry a normal mp5 with 15 round mag. Now they seem to have some kitted up mp5s with torch and sighting system and 30 round mag.

Ive also noticed that the MDP "appear" to use smaller magazines in respect to the SA80,however thats just from reading their in-house magazine and seeing some officers on duty.
As for the MDP in London etc,im sure they will not be allowed to wander around with military issue SA80s around MDP property in the capital.

Originally posted by bmdefiant
Ive also noticed that the MDP "appear" to use smaller magazines in respect to the SA80,however thats just from reading their in-house magazine and seeing some officers on duty.
As for the MDP in London etc,im sure they will not be allowed to wander around with military issue SA80s around MDP property in the capital.

I'm sure you're right. The units in London may well be issued MP5s etc. However, these are fairly rare. I've never seen an SA80 used with 'smaller' magazines in my (many) years with the mob, certainly by the MDP. There's simply no reason for it - you can just put less rounds in a standard mag.

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, just that I've never seen it and that it's a bit unusual.

As it is in the public domain, I will tell you about the raid in Gloucester to arrest the alleged bomber a couple of years ago.

I was hauled out of bed at 0530 to let the police on site where I live. I cannot say for sure what these guys were, but my best guess is they were SB, TFUs or SO19. Just how many police were on site, is hard to say, but there appeared to be about 50 or so from what I saw.

For the most part, I saw H&K MP5s, M79 Grenade Launchers (presumably CS Gas) and 9mm pistols.

One guy who made himself a brew in our kitchen was dressed in the standard black assault coverall suit, tactical assault belt with sidearm, asp, CS spray, radio etc, and stab or bullet proof vest. He was armed with an M79 grenade launcher and wore a bandolier of gas grenades. His sidearm looked like a standard Glock, but I could be wrong. He also looked very young. Well, I'm old [53], so everybody looks young to me!

I too, have seen the guys strolling - sorry patrolling about Heathrow and they appear to be armed with the standard H&K MP5 A3 with either 10, 20 or 30 rnd mags. I have also seen police with the much smaller 5 rnd mags but, I think this is a rarity.

As to the poilice using L85A1 or A2s, I have never seen it in Gloucester. I will ask and let you know.

I stand corrected about the MDP using the smaller magazines,dunno where that came from in my head... Having looked at the MDP magazine article about the G8 summit the officers there were indeed using the normal sized magazines for their SA80s..

[edit on 27-11-2005 by bmdefiant]

reply to post by M6D


old new the new sa80a2 outproforms the ar15 [m16/m4] in iraq and afganastan.

reply to post by PaddyInf


My main issue with the cops being armed is that as soon as "average copper" is packing a gun, any criminal who expects to be up against a cop will need a gun. It escalates the arms war between the cops and the criminals. I'd rather criminals have knives than guns. Personally I have great respect for the cops - they do a great job (on the whole, obviously a few are idiots, but far fewer per capita than the general population).

A few instances of people getting shot is not, in my opinion, a good enough reason to destroy the balance. Seeing your average copper on the street, and seeing that all they have for protection is a stab vest, cs spray and an asp, is fine - I'd wager most cops go through their entire careers without needing to, or wanting to, use anything stronger than an asp.

But then that's me, and I'm nuts.

reply to post by dave420

Dave, please tell me you're joking?

Having got rid of the couple of thousand legal handguns in the country, this bloody Labour Government has now left the streets to the gun toting druggies and every other knife wielding crazy out there.

So you would rather face a knife wielding nutter than a gun waving lunatic, eh?

At least you could run and hide from a gun waving lunatic! But how could you tell if the nutter approaching you had a knife?

Probably in the back of an ambulance on your way to the morgue!

Good call!

I say we should have an armed police section in every major town in our country but above all, if a policeman or woman fires the shot and saves a life in the process, they should not be charged with murder, as they are at present!

reply to post by fritz


You are clearly off your rocker I bet you read the Daily Mail and have a box of canned goods in your cupboard for when the proverbial poop hits the fan and society breaks down.

How can you tell if someone has a gun if it's in their pocket? As guns and knives are both metallic objects able to be concealed, it's going to come down to how they are used. I can't remember of anyone being drive-by knifed, or a knife going through someone and stabbing someone behind them on the other side of the street.

Clearly criminals having knives is better than criminals having guns.

Originally posted by dave420
My main issue with the cops being armed is that as soon as "average copper" is packing a gun, any criminal who expects to be up against a cop will need a gun. It escalates the arms war between the cops and the criminals.

The main reason that criminals in the UK carry knives is not in case they have to go toe to toe with the police, it is to use against other criminals. This is particularly true of crug related criminals. As this type of crime is on the increase and the types of weapon available to the average crim get more sophisticated, arming the police should be a step worth considering. After all, it is the police that have to deal with these people. More weapons in the hands of criminals means more likelyhood of the police having to contend with this threat.

A few instances of people getting shot is not, in my opinion, a good enough reason to destroy the balance. Seeing your average copper on the street, and seeing that all they have for protection is a stab vest, cs spray and an asp, is fine - I'd wager most cops go through their entire careers without needing to, or wanting to, use anything stronger than an asp.

There is no balance. The number of armed crimes is on the increase. The likelyhood of an officer having to face an armed criminal is increasing. How do you think the average copper would feel knowing that they may have to face an armed drug dealer while armed with nothing more than a stick and a bit of spray? The drug dealer will be facing roughly the same punishment for dealing as he would for shooting a cop. Therefore the likelyhood of the unarmed cop getting shot is very high as the criminal has nothing to loose.

If the constable is armed, the dealer faces the possibility of getting killed, reducing the likelyhood of him taking the chance of going for a weapon and provoking a lethal response. The idea of denying a police constable the opportunity to defend himself in these circumstances is simply absurd.

There have been a number of instances whereby a criminal has opened fire on the police and public while the police could do nothing until an ARV turned up, sometimes resulting in the deaths of police and bystanders. A constable with a pistol could have stopped these deaths.

The english should really arm all of it's police with tasers they have a been a massive success story here in the states.
They are non lethal and can be used for any type of arrests of course they should all have guns as well I'm surprised they don't.

If you want them to do a tough job you should equip them.

reply to post by PaddyInf


It just seems so lazy to arm the cops, instead of actually trying to solve the problem that's causing these folks to want to be armed, or at least to remove the guns from the equation all together.

Also, there's the problem of accidental shootings, the amount of training required for each cop to be up to the required level to handle a firearm in public, etc.

If the cops just used their intelligence departments to find out the guns, and deal with them there, the escalation between criminal and cop won't have to happen. And clearly it would happen, as a criminals ultimate goal is to get away from the cops - if the cops are armed, criminals will HAVE to be armed if they want to escape the cops.

Judging by other countries with armed cops, I'd rather not sell the UK out so quickly.

Also remember, it's up to the police whether they're armed or not, not the government. ACPO, the Association of Chief Police Officers has regularly polled constables around the country, and the answer to "should you be armed" is always a resounding "no". I'd trust the cops to know more about policework than random folks on the internet, myself included.

There is an increased use of firearms as well as knives to carry out crimes in Britain, with criminals determined to carry and use them both in committing and escaping from capture.
To say that if police intelligence units worked harder there would be no escalation is a load of rubbish. Many of the people who carry weapons are from communities that are uncooperative at the least and unwilling to help through their own fear of reprisals.
However i believe arming every officer in the UK to be prohibitively expensive as well as un-needed.An increase in the amount of firearms ARV officers available as well as the possibility of issueing tasers to officers to provide another less lethal option.

Originally posted by PaddyInf

Originally posted by AgentSmith
I don't want to stray off topic too much, but has anyone else noticed that practically everytime you see the Police on the news here in the UK now they always seem to be armed? I know this is due to the terrorism but it seems a little odd almost - like they are getting people used to seeing armed police everywhere.

Yea, seems like a good idea to me, particularly when you see last nights news re. those 2 WPCs that got shot (1 dead, the other badly wounded). Seems to me that as gun crimes increase, so should the number of armed police units. An ARV is not always available when required.

As gun crimes increase... I thought the UK had all the wonderfull gunbans so there should be no gun crime or need to arm the cops with MP-5's and G-36's.

I've seen a lot of them with MP5s, I even saw at the local courthouse one time, they had snipers on the roof, and even they seemed to be using some kind of modified mp5, or something very similar, it looked just like it but with a better stock than the normal ones.