What Would Jesus Do?

Matthew 19:12 (KJV)
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

So Christian men, what are you waiting for? With modern medicine such a procedure is both safe and painless.

If u have a problem with lust, then perhaps u should consider it spam.

Being married has sufficed for me.

In context, this isn't a passage about lust, it is a recommendation to make yourself a eunich rather than get married.

For the record though, I do not have a lust problem. I am able to lust with ease.

Spam!

Jake: Ah-ha! But the idea of being a 'eunuch'--scriputurally speaking, that is--has little or nothing to do with sex, lust, and all related fleshly ideas:

Isaiah 56:1-7
-Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
-Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
-Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
-For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
-Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
-Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
-Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Eunuch
sariys or saris
From an unused root meaning to castrate; a eunuch; by implication valet (especially of the female apartments), and thus a minister of state: - chamberlain, eunuch, officer.

Compare rab-sariys
From rab and a foreign word for a eunuch; chief chamberlain; Rab-Saris, a Babylonian official: - Rab-saris.

rab
By contraction from rabab:
abundant (in quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality): (abounding in, abundance, abundant, abundantly); captain, elder, exceedingly, full, great (greatly, great man, great one), increase, long (long enough [time]), [do or have] many (maniifold, many things, many a time), master, mighty, more, (too, very) much, multiply (mulitude), officer, often, plenteous, populous, prince, process [of time], suffice (sufficient).

rabab
A primitive root; properly to cast together; that is, increase: especially in number; also to multiply by the myriad: - increase, be many, be more, multiply, ten thousands.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Any decent amount of word-study-time invested in both the OT and the NT will cause bells to go off upon reading many of those words--especially when considering the context of the verses from Isaiah I cited.

Obviously 'it is a light thing' to be a eunuch in the service of God--what might be lost, on the physical plane (although I don't think this is a literal lesson, but rather one fundamentally addressing the perennial 'flesh vs spirit' priority adjustment) is far surpassed in what is gained, in the long run. The 'abundance' is not about procreation, but about 'overseeing' after the battle of 'overcoming' is won.


But, then again, I'm a female. What do I know?

Originally posted by spamandham
Matthew 19:12 (KJV)
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

This means different things. If you were looking for the good in it, instead of recognizing the ugly, you'd relate to how this could be a positive thing.

Perhaps when your intentions are not to be dictated to you by your penis and testicals you could be considered a eunuch. But, you'd first have to put the needs of others over the wants of your self. But, some men deserve to be tools of the women they serve.

Originally posted by spamandham.

For the record though, I do not have a lust problem. I am able to lust with ease.

That is hilarious.

Thanks Spam

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
This means different things. If you were looking for the good in it, instead of recognizing the ugly, you'd relate to how this could be a positive thing.

I would think all True Christians™ would embrace the words of Christ! Surely, that can only be positive, right?

Note that his words indicate that some are born this way, which clarifies that he is talking about physical modification and not simply being a spiritual eunich.

How can anyone call themselves a Christian if they do not embrace the teachings of Christ?

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
This means different things. If you were looking for the good in it, instead of recognizing the ugly, you'd relate to how this could be a positive thing.

I would think all True Christians™ would embrace the words of Christ! Surely, that can only be positive, right?

right. But, all the words combined and accepted as true tell you what the passage really refers to, not only in your eyes, but in the eyes of those who merely call themselves christians, and those who do not. You can not pick and choose, because you will be questioning the will of God. When you question the will of God, there are consequences. Gentle ones, but consequences just the same. Unfortunately, some are so used to how life is they do not realize the consequences are currently being experienced by them.

That is some of how I understand it to be. But, that does not mean it is the only way to take it in. Knowing you don't know is hindering speculation, and opening your mind up to more truth.

How can anyone call themselves a Christian if they do not embrace the teachings of Christ?

Just as an Egyptian in Iraq can call himself a Syrian. You could call yourself a Republican, but pick the side of Democrats on certain issues. Does this make you less Republican? Yes, and no.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by spamandham
In context, this isn't a passage about lust, it is a recommendation to make yourself a eunich rather than get married.

When I read that the Holy Spirit doesn't tell me that at all. HE says that its a gift. Some disciples are to be married and some are not. The people with the gift not to be married will have NO desire to be married. Hence "he that is able to receive it, let him receive it"

Originally posted by seawater999
When I read that the Holy Spirit doesn't tell me that at all. HE says that its a gift. Some disciples are to be married and some are not. The people with the gift not to be married will have NO desire to be married. Hence "he that is able to receive it, let him receive it"

The "it" is clearly referencing the subject under discussion, which is becoming a eunuch, not marriage. The dialog begins by discussing divorce, to which the disciples suggest it's better to never even get married than to be forbidden divorce, and Jesus trumps that with recommending they become eunuchs.

"Let he who is able to become a eunuch, become one" is the clear meaning of this never quoted bit of scripture attributed to Jesus himself. To deny the clear meaning of this passage is to deny Christ himself.

The only questions are, what does it mean to be "able to receive it", and did he really mean this or was he exaggerating to make a point? If the latter, where else may Jesus have used such hyperbole?

"it means this because that's what the holy spirit tells me" is not an acceptable way of understanding scripture by any standard I'm aware of, particularly when what the holy spirit is telling you has nothing whatsoever to do with the passage in question. You might as well claim this passage is telling you to stop drinking so much.

Well, unfortunately this is something I could never do - I want children some day.

But if Jesus actually expected this of his followers, why make only one mention of it?

It makes no sense, I mean - if Christians were to follow this they would die out within one generation.

εισιν γαρ ευνουχοι οιτινες εκ κοιλιας μητρος εγεννηθησαν ουτως και εισιν ευνουχοι οιτινες ευνουχισθησαν υπο των ανθρωπων και εισιν ευνουχοι οιτινες ευνουχισαν εαυτους δια την βασιλειαν των ουρανων ο δυναμενος χωρειν χωρειτω.

From the Greek, it looks like a recommendation for some rather than a command for all.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


enjoy

My eyes have seen the blue glow of spent fuel rods...I pluck them out for I am offended.
My feet have trodden the halls of a nuclear plant...I cut them off for I am offended.
My hands have nursed the reactors...I lop them off for I am offended.
My body was nourished by the ill gotten gains of fusion...I decapitate myself for I am offended.
My brain is knowledgeable to the destruction of atoms...I am offended and I...wait a minute...

I should quit while I'm a head!

Originally posted by masqua
My brain is knowledgeable to the destruction of atoms...I am offended and I...wait a minute...

I should quit while I'm a head!

But you've already gotten rid of your head!

My body was nourished by the ill gotten gains of fusion...I decapitate myself for I am offended.

What to do?

Originally posted by jake1997
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


enjoy

So Jake, do you consider this to be a command from Jesus, or do you say it's hyperbole?

Originally posted by spamandham
Matthew 19:12 (KJV)
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

So Christian men, what are you waiting for? With modern medicine such a procedure is both safe and painless.

Some people who call themselves "Christians" might bitch slap you and then cut the buisiness end of your family seed off.

Maybe Mathew at one time fell into that category.

But as for what Jesus would do, well .... . .. . Where are Jesus's words on this subject?

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Some people who call themselves "Christians" might bitch slap you and then cut the buisiness end of your family seed off.

Maybe Mathew at one time fell into that category.

But as for what Jesus would do, well .... . .. . Where are Jesus's words on this subject?

It's legitimate to question whether or not these really are the words of Jesus, but the text in question clearly claims that they are. Of course, by now you've probably figured out I view the Bible like I would any collection of religious or political tracts.

I think that was his interpretation of the passage, correct me if I'm wrong though ET.

Originally posted by spamandham
Of course, by now you've probably figured out I view the Bible like I would any collection of religious or political tracts.

Right or wrong, literal or otherwise, the bible is still viewed by at least a third of the planet's population as recorded history.

I don't care too much for people who merely quote scripture. I think scripture means what it means to the reader, and not all "believers" actually see it all the same way.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Right or wrong, literal or otherwise, the bible is still viewed by at least a third of the planet's population as recorded history.

Says who? The vast majority of Christians are Catholics who generally view the Bible as literal, allegorical, figurative, or outright wrong in places. Of those Christians who are not Catholic, many also do not take a literal perspective. I don't know the numbers, but I suspect those who take such a perpsective are the vast minority of not only the earth's population, but even of the Christian population.

Back to the topic at hand, why has no-one presented church history to prove that this passage was not meant literally?