A challenge to all Masons

I took interest in studying Masonic activity for several years. I was also privy to documentation of the highest order. As a researcher I am open to hear your argument against any of my opinions. Simply put, Masonry has been perverted and corrupted and I intend to prove it right here and now.

Practically speaking, one cannot go to any Masonic website today and not run across the Leo Taxil Hoax. Leo Taxil is considered by most Masons as someone who has done them a great disservice and thus every bad thing one attributes to a Mason or Masonry is the fault of Leo Taxil or that of superstitious Christians. I’ve noticed whenever a Mason cannot come to any logical conclusion regarding an issue (think Pike letters) they will blame the scapegoat Taxil and had Morgan been murdered long after the time of John Quincy Adams, I’m sure it would have been Taxil’s fault also. But even still, the Masons will go to any length to discredit John Quincy Adams (a great President) and the greater majority of Americans who were already very concerned about the goings on in the Masonic lodges from before the time of Leo Taxil’s influence.

I intend to prove that Leo Taxil was a true and ultimate friend to the Mason and was in fact nothing less than a Masonic double agent, placing the falsehood fog over the people of America. In fact, he was hired to carry out what seems like today, one of the most ingenious plots of plausible-deniability!

Here are but 2 short examples:

Leo Taxil admitted many so-called lies, but I know they were ALL true. Taxil says that Albert Pike worships Lucifer and not Satan. If one studies Pike’s “Morals and Dogma”, it becomes increasingly obvious that Pike clearly endorses Lucifer as the light-bearer and that the Mason is ultimately seeking the light. If I am correct, watch the Masons try and imply that Pike is not a Mason of choice, anyhow.

Leo Taxil also mentions “Bahomet” and sexual rites. He also mentions “The Palladium” or Master Rite. If one goes to the OTO website, it is clear that the OTO has woman members and that Bahomet is accepted in their Gnostic map. According to Leo Taxil, the new master rite of freemasonry or Palladium is ironically, the OTO itself.

Plausible deniability is a scam used to build up the straw man (Taxil) and then after gaining the attention of the masses, already deeply seeded against Masonry and were closing the lodges, watched Taxil tear himself down and therefore stopping any further discussion or connection to Lucifer and the Palladium in Masonry.

This plot was designed by the greatest friend to all Masons; a guy named Leo Taxil. After all, he was willing to discredit himself by making claims which he would then later retract while standing in front of a large audience (typical propaganda) and claiming it was all just a big joke and a huge lie. Fitting that during this time, we are supposed to believe that Taxil was playing a big joke, when the subject was already being discussed very seriously. Thus, once again Taxil discredits anything of truthfulness attached toward freemasonry and from this point onward a serious researcher must fend through loads of Taxil-based propaganda. This form of mass manipulation is easily detectable I intend to continue exposing it.

Originally posted by markusjharper
I took interest in studying Masonic activity for several years. I was also privy to documentation of the highest order. As a researcher I am open to hear your argument against any of my opinions. Simply put, Masonry has been perverted and corrupted and I intend to prove it right here and now.

We will see...

Leo Taxil also mentions “Bahomet” and sexual rites. He also mentions “The Palladium” or Master Rite. If one goes to the OTO website, it is clear that the OTO has woman members and that Bahomet is accepted in their Gnostic map. According to Leo Taxil, the new master rite of freemasonry or Palladium is ironically, the OTO itself.

Prove it, go ahead, I double dog dare you!

1. Explain how Baphomet relates to the O.T.O.

2. Show how the term "The Palladium" is used in the O.T.O.

3. Explain how the O.T.O. was able to control the Masons from 1962 to 1969 while the order existed pretty much in name only and had a membership of less than a dozen.

4. The O.T.O. was formed in 1906.. who/what was the "The Palladium" before then?

And really if you did any research at all you would have much better "proof" of "sexual rites" than just the fact that the O.T.O. has women members! I mean come on, it's all about evil sex magick!



[edit on 11/17/2005 by Cug]

Prove it, go ahead, I double dog dare you!

1. Explain how Baphomet relates to the O.T.O.

2. Show how the term "The Palladium" is used in the O.T.O.

3. Explain how the O.T.O. was able to control the Masons from 1964 to 1969 while the order existed pretty much in name only.

4. The O.T.O. was formed in 1906.. who/what was the "The Palladium" before then?

And really if you did any research at all you would have much better "proof" of "sexual rites" than just the fact that the O.T.O. has women members! I mean come on, it's all about evil sex magick!

Swaying from my point that Leo Taxil wasn't lying and that he was a Mason’s best pal won’t get you anywhere.

You may underestimate my intention and before I answer your questions, which would of course accomplish your true objective in getting us all way off topic, can you tell me why would Leo Taxil wish to lie publicly about something which he already knew to be 100% true?

Originally posted by markusjharper

Swaying from my point that Leo Taxil wasn't lying and that he was a Mason’s best pal won’t get you anywhere.
You may underestimate my intention and before I answer your questions, which would of course accomplish your true objective in getting us all way off topic, can you tell me why would Leo Taxil wish to lie publicly about something which he already knew to be 100% true?

For the record, I'm not a Mason and have no wish to be one, and I don't give a hoot about Taxil.

But you're offering up the O.T.O. as proof. So prove it!

Prove it, go ahead, I double dog dare you!

1. Explain how Baphomet relates to the O.T.O.

2. Show how the term "The Palladium" is used in the O.T.O.

3. Explain how the O.T.O. was able to control the Masons from 1964 to 1969 while the order existed pretty much in name only.

4. The O.T.O. was formed in 1906.. who/what was the "The Palladium" before then?

And really if you did any research at all you would have much better "proof" of "sexual rites" than just the fact that the O.T.O. has women members! I mean come on, it's all about evil sex magick!

To answer your questions:

1) Eliphas Levi’s Baphomet of the Gnostic mass relates rather to the doctrine of Thelma and the OTO are practitioners of Law of Thelema.

2) The Palladium is mentioned by Taxil and relates to the OTO. Startup of the OTO is the new master rite of Freemasonry – all branches of freemasonry thus came into itself as something new, now called the OTO.

3) The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light was founded by a member within a revived Bavarian Illuminati - need I say more?

4) The Scottish rite

5) Yes, what about sex magic? The OTO indulge in it as something acceptable and an experience of free will. They can deny it all they like but then again, so did the sex philosopher Alister Crowley deny partaking in what he wrote, sure!

If you wish to waste time on something you do not care about then let a Mason prove me wrong about Leo Taxil. I dare any Mason to try and tell me that Taxil was lying about Lucifer. Also, please do take a look at the OTO based forums and see for yourself about Bahomet and sex magic.


[edit on 17-11-2005 by markusjharper]

Originally posted by markusjharper
1) Eliphas Levi’s Baphomet of the Gnostic mass relates rather to the doctrine of Thelma and the OTO are practitioners of Law of Thelema.

How? you just restated what you said the first time.

2) The Palladium is mentioned by Taxil and relates to the OTO. Startup of the OTO is the new master rite of Freemasonry – all branches of freemasonry thus came into itself as something new, now called the OTO.

So I guess your taking Liber XXXI at it's word huh?

How can it be the "master rite" when 95%+ of it's members have never been freemasons (including the current head)

3) The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light was founded by a member within a revived Bavarian Illuminati - need I say more?

Yes you do. When did the dozen members of the OTO in the late sixty's have time to control masons? They were pretty busy just trying to stay alive.

4) The Scottish rite

So they were hidingin plain site?

5) Yes, what about sex magic? The OTO indulge in it as something acceptable and an experience of free will. They can deny it all they like but then again, so did the sex philosopher Alister Crowley deny partaking in what he wrote, sure!

err.... they don't deny it anyway why didn't you just say it?

Also, please do take a look at the OTO based forums and see for yourself about Bahomet and sex magic.

You might was to do so yourself.. you might see me posting there!

My quick analysis of Taxil “supposed” lies:

"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we stay this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. "

Leo Taxil is speaking truthfully, as the Christian church has misunderstood that Lucifer is a God for both good or evil and thus it must be kept hidden, as to reveal to the superstitious Christians that Lucifer the light-bearer is not evil, would be misunderstood.

""If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. for the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods; darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive."

Here Taxil tells the truth once more. Lucifer is God (as an Archangel) and thus so is Adonay, God. If one is part of God and then one must also Be God! If it were not for free will which Lucifer gives man to be able to choose to do good or evil, then we are but slaves to Adonay. Lucifer is the light-bearer and part of the divine plan for us all.

"Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."

Here he refers to Satan as being our egoism and a heresy. Lucifer is the provider of free will but not to be confused with Satan, as the church has done to control the masses. Adonay, is "sarcastically" called evil by Taxil to insinuate that Lucifer will allow us the choice to "do what thy wilt and love under will" as opposed to Adonay who forces us to do otherwise. Taxil is making fun of those Christians (he hated) who were following the churches “Jehovah” or an evil God.

Why is Taxil speaking all this truth, and then retracting it all afterwards in public, as some kind of ruse, when clearly he speaks the truth about almost all Gnostic orders, including Freemasonry?

So I guess your taking Liber XXXI at it's word huh?

How can it be the "master rite" when 95%+ of it's members have never been freemasons (including the current head)

Are you sure you're not a Mason? I never said Masonry is the Law of Thelema. A typical Masonic response is that they say things like Manly Hall was not a Mason until much, much later but forget he understood Masonry better than any other Mason and taught it to top Masons before joining any goofy lodge.

My point is that Masonry has been corrupted and perverted since the 1800's by Hegel-Jacobins and if they could infiltrate something as virtuous as Masonry once before, and since I know that the cult of Minevera has used Masonic Lodges to carry out ceremonies in the order of death, and since I know they have had British government spies like Crowley (a freemason btw), I certainly know that Leo Taxil knew more about true Masonry than most Masons today and thus - I cannot call him a liar.


[edit on 17-11-2005 by markusjharper]

Gee I thought we had some real proof here at first. But if you can't explain one of the two examples you gave (and I'd assume that you would of used your best examples to start your post off) Why should anyone give any credence to the rest of your "proof"?

Originally posted by markusjharper
I know they have had British government spies like Crowley (a freemason btw),

buzzzzz sorry Crowley never was a (C) Freemason TM. You see he had rather bad luck and every "masonic" order he joined turned out to be bogus. Something he admitted when the O.T.O. stopped "making masons."

I still don't see any way the O.T.O. can be the master rite.

Gee I thought we had some real proof here at first. But if you can't explain one of the two examples you gave (and I'd assume that you would of used your best examples to start your post off) Why should anyone give any credence to the rest of your "proof"?

I think I have made a fair case that Taxil is telling the truth based on what words were his own. Prove me wrong "using Taxil's own writings", otherwise every Masonic website is pathetic disinformation from here on in.

Have a nice day.

Now don't get all bent out of shape.. It's kinda hard to use Taxil's writings when he never mentioned the O.T.O.

You claimed the O.T.O. was proof of Taxil's The Palladium. All I want to know is how. I can write a big list of occult groups that have sex rituals, and have mention of Baphomet. How did you come to use the O.T.O.

Hell I might like to prove a group I'm joining is the top dog! Bitchen


UGH the typos the typos!

[edit on 11/17/2005 by Cug]

"I created the Palladium, and I am now destroying it” says Leo Taxil.

Leo Taxil lied by saying that he created the Palladium and also lied when saying he destroyed it. Can you not tell that by his saying so, he effectively closes all paths for discussion. A classic case of plausible deniability and a very odd statement to boot.

As per Dennis Brunnel, who was an OTO GM, the "Oblonica" is also the "Palladium" and this proves that Taxil was in no position to neither create, nor destroy the concept of Palladium.

Originally posted by markusjharper
As per Dennis Brunnel, who was an OTO GM, the "Oblonica" is also the "Palladium" and this proves that Taxil was in no position to neither create, nor destroy the concept of Palladium.

Huh? Man you cant even cut and paste very well.

www.beyondweird.com...

"One of the lodges of the "Palladium",according to ex-O.T.O. Grand Master Dennis Brunnel, happened to contain within itself an inner lodge called the "Oblonica", which gave rise to the
Italian Mafiosi in America."

it it's a "inner" lodge so it's part of "the Palladium" not another name for it.

But the main thing is, there is no Grand Master in the O.T.O. the position is called Grand Master General, and to date there have been two of them, both are still in office. so that is about as bogus as it comes. (BTW did a quick google search... the only mention of this person on the web is the above quote) ::: EDIT DUH! I forgot one who used that title.. Crowley

Try again



[edit on 11/17/2005 by Cug]

Originally posted by markusjharper
I took interest in studying Masonic activity for several years. I was also privy to documentation of the highest order. As a researcher I am open to hear your argument against any of my opinions. Simply put, Masonry has been perverted and corrupted and I intend to prove it right here and now.

What exactly do you mean by "perverted and corrupted", and just how exactly do you "intend to prove it"? We still haven't seen any prrof, just the same rhetoric that we see posted practically every day.

Practically speaking, one cannot go to any Masonic website today and not run across the Leo Taxil Hoax.

This is simply untrue. What is true that one cannot go to any anti-Masonic website without running across the Taxil Hoax.

Leo Taxil is considered by most Masons as someone who has done them a great disservice and thus every bad thing one attributes to a Mason or Masonry is the fault of Leo Taxil or that of superstitious Christians.

Absolutely not. The Taxil Hoax, exposed well over a century ago, is not taken seriously by folks in the mainstream. Obviously, any Mason researching or writing about the history and development of anti-Masonry has little choice but to allude to it, but it isn't really that important today. It may be on the Internet among conspiracy theorists, but not in the real world.

I’ve noticed whenever a Mason cannot come to any logical conclusion regarding an issue (think Pike letters) they will blame the scapegoat Taxil

Which Pike letters are you referring to? Do you mean real ones, or the ones that don't exist but were invented by conspiracy theorists, such as Taxil's "Lucifer is God", and the forgered letters to Mazzini?

and had Morgan been murdered long after the time of John Quincy Adams, I’m sure it would have been Taxil’s fault also.

Taxil is much more important to anti-Masons than he is to Masons. And, by the way, it has never been demonstrated that Morgan was murdered.

But even still, the Masons will go to any length to discredit John Quincy Adams (a great President) and the greater majority of Americans who were already very concerned about the goings on in the Masonic lodges from before the time of Leo Taxil’s influence.

Whether or not Adams was a "great president" is a matter of personal opinion. I'm inclined to disagree, and did so long before I became a Mason.

I intend to prove that Leo Taxil was a true and ultimate friend to the Mason and was in fact nothing less than a Masonic double agent, placing the falsehood fog over the people of America.

Huh? To begin with, Taxil had nothing to do with America, and to best of my knowledge, he never set foot on American soil. He was French, and had been initiated as a Mason in a French Lodge. Shortly after receiving the First degree, he was expelled, and simply wanted revenge for the humiliation.

Leo Taxil admitted many so-called lies, but I know they were ALL true.

And how exactly do you "know" this?

Taxil says that Albert Pike worships Lucifer and not Satan.

I think you are confused, and perhaps you've never even read Taxil. Taxil is quite clear that Pike worshiped Satan, and even claimed that Pike and Satan had tea together every Friday on the planet Venus. (see Taxil's "Mysteries of Freemasonry").

If one studies Pike’s “Morals and Dogma”, it becomes increasingly obvious that Pike clearly endorses Lucifer as the light-bearer and that the Mason is ultimately seeking the light.

I think you are confused again. "Lucifer" is the Latin word which means "light bearer". There's no need to "endorse" it.

If I am correct, watch the Masons try and imply that Pike is not a Mason of choice, anyhow.

What exactly is a "Mason of choice"?

Leo Taxil also mentions “Bahomet” and sexual rites. He also mentions “The Palladium” or Master Rite. If one goes to the OTO website, it is clear that the OTO has woman members and that Bahomet is accepted in their Gnostic map. According to Leo Taxil, the new master rite of freemasonry or Palladium is ironically, the OTO itself.

The O.T.O. did not exist when Taxil was writing his books and forging Pike letters. The O.T.O. was founded in 1899 in Germany, long after the fiasco was over, and the hoax admitted.

Unknown to many people, an actual Order of the Palladium did really exist at the time in France, and there is no doubt that Taxil had heard of it. It admitted both men and women, which apparently was lurid to Taxil. In reality, the Order was sort of like the Eastern Star in the USA, mostly being composed of Masons and their wives. The Palladium had two degrees: Companion of Penelope and Companion of Athena, and the degrees were based on Greek mythology and Homeric literature, and not, as Taxil claimed, on satanism.

Thus, once again Taxil discredits anything of truthfulness attached toward freemasonry and from this point onward a serious researcher must fend through loads of Taxil-based propaganda.

Which, it appears, I've been doing ever since first responding to your post.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The O.T.O. did not exist when Taxil was writing his books and forging Pike letters. The O.T.O. was founded in 1899 in Germany, long after the fiasco was over, and the hoax admitted.

Just being a bit picky here.

You really can't call it the O.T.O. proper in 1899. at that time the O.T.O. was more of an idea than anything else.

First it was the Academia Masonica around 1895, in 1901 they got a charter for the Swedenborgian Rite, then in 1902 a charter from John Yarker to work the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis, the Rite of Mizraim and the Cerneau Scottish Rite and I think they got one from Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia in '02.

The pre-Thelema O.T.O. proper got going with 1903 manifesto. Gee all that typing to say "Hey you were off by 4 years"

You seem to have neglected to prove anything in the original post.

Originally posted by Cug


The pre-Thelema O.T.O. proper got going with 1903 manifesto. Gee all that typing to say "Hey you were off by 4 years"

Technically, you're right. Reuss claimed 1899 as a founding date, but that was really not the O.T.O. per se, but just the little tantric circle ran by Kellner that later evolved into the O.T.O. This club did not have a degree system, nor was it fashioned after Freemasonry. Reuss seems to have taken it in that direction shortly after the turn of the century.

Am I the only one that caught this?!?

Originally posted by markusjharper
*snip*

I think I have made a fair case that Taxil is telling the truth based on what words were his own. Prove me wrong "using Taxil's own writings", otherwise every Masonic website is pathetic disinformation from here on in.

Have a nice day.

Then you go on to say.....

Oringinally posted by markusjharper
"I created the Palladium, and I am now destroying it” says Leo Taxil.

Leo Taxil lied by saying that he created the Palladium and also lied when saying he destroyed it. Can you not tell that by his saying so, he effectively closes all paths for discussion. A classic case of plausible deniability and a very odd statement to boot.

Which is it? You claim he's telling the truth and that's what you base your information on.....but then you say that he lied...

Trying to prove someone told the truth via their own words?

If for 10yrs I said the earth was flat...and gave you my reasons why that is the case. How are you going to prove me wrong using my own words?

I use to lie, but now I don't. Unless I am lying about that. Around and around, Iam getting dizzy.