The Sabbath Day, When Is It?

Being raised up in a Messianic Jewish family, I have always been taught that the Sabbath is from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. In addition, I also attend a Christian Highschool where they teach us that the Sabbath is either one of two, Sunday or anyday setaside to honor the L-rd, depending on which teacher you were to ask. ***(In Messianic Jewish custom and Law it is forbidden to write G-d, or etc., with an "o" between the "G" and the "d" simply because we view it as a sin to destroy anything with his name on it, so we drop the "o" in all His refferences)***
*Sorry bought the rabbit trail but I get that question all the time, and I knew someone would ask it*
Can someone please help me? Any valid arguments containing Scriptural references will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a million

The way you were raised is correct. Sabbath is as you said Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. Christians set aside Sunday as the day of worship because Jesus was raised from the dead on Sunday, this makes it a day of great celebration.

Funny you should mention this because in Exodous , one of the 10 laws Moses recieved from G-d said to keep the Sabbath holy, but later Jesus stated that the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. The literal transation does indicate that we should use Saturday as a day of worship. I can already tell you you're going to get lots of views on this here. I think I've seen this discussed before.

To Summarize I think it's important to take one day and set it aside as a day of worship if possible. Saturday, Sunday, or whatever you can fit in.

Here's a list of previous discussions on this subject. Feel free to chime into one of these or post the questions here if you wish.

Should Christians keep the sabbath?

Why is the Sabbath celebrated on Sunday, the First Day of the Week??

The Sabbath

The Sabbath Day, When Is It?

[edit on 16-11-2005 by dbates]

Hi Bakerstone18,

As a Christian I view the Sabbath from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.

The acceptance of such Christian doctrines as the Incarnation, Trinity, and divinity of Jesus with their innately idolatrous and polytheistic character is apostasy in the fullest sense. Therefore, born-Jewish Christians are idolaters in no uncertain terms. A claim to the contrary notwithstanding, the god of all forms of Christianity is simply not the God of the Jewish Scriptures. Specifically, the role Jesus plays in the respective denominations of Christianity is unacceptable. All said, whatever merit might attend Gentiles for accepting the principle, if not the substance, of monotheism it is not on the same level with what God has deemed necessary and proper for Jewish people. A Jew must meet, actively or inactively, the fundamental biblical stipulation: "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3, Deuteronomy 5:7).
from www.jewsforjudaism.com

If your mother is jewish i suggest you repent and get recircumsized asap.

to science guy

read Issiah 53 then read the book of John

Originally posted by Bakerstone18
to science guy

read Issiah 53 then read the book of John

heehe. Thats funny.

I'm so glad everyone is saying the Shabbat is on the correct day!!
I really believe that Satan counterfiets the Shabbat on Sunday (Dan 7:25) and the penalty for not keeping the false Shabbat during the Great Tribulation will be death...

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Originally posted by Bakerstone18
to science guy

read Issiah 53 then read the book of John

I did read it. But paul was the liar
Corinthians 9:20-22: To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law -- though not being myself under the law -- that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak


In fact christianity is pagan totally

basically, in Caesarea and Tarsus, the local Roman guards were
worshipers of the Persian Mithras. Mithras' birthday was 25th of
December. The main way of worshiping Mithras was to sacrifice a bull
that was consecrated to Mithras, wash yourself in that bull's blood,
and then have a feast where you both ate the flesh of the sacrificed
bull but also drank it's blood. Paul, knowing this, realised that the
best way to convert them was to show that, if they thought they would
benefit from eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the sacrificed
bull, they would benefit even more if they accepted the sacrifice of a
"divine man" and ate his flesh and drank his blood. It worked. He
was, obviously also aware of Jewish sacrifices at the Temple. An
excerpt from Hebrews gives an example of this type of substitution
logic, which he used to his benefit all over the known world: Hebrews
9:13,14...For if the blood of goats and of oxen, and the ashes of an
heifer being sprinkled, sanctify such as are defiled, to the cleansing
of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who by the Holy
Ghost offered himself unspotted unto God, cleanse our conscience from
dead works, to serve the living God?
The eucharist is a Mthraic thing. When worshippers of Mithras
didn't have a suitable sacrifice available, they would substitute bread
for the flesh and wine for the blood. One thing led to another and a
sacrament was born.

got anything to say?

In fact christianity is pagan totally

got anything to say?

DUDE!! She is a MESSIANIC Believer!! That means PRE- Constantine and mass Empire-pagan Christianity!!

Yo... she keeps the Feasts and Shabbats....

...not Christmas (aka Ba'al's birthday)
...not Easter (aka Istar's day)

...etc

Repent of all sin, get born again (aka BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT [Luke 3, John 3, Acts 1-2) and live by faith.... FOR REAL...

DUDE you cannot pick and choose which part of the new testament to keep. if you throw out the christmas you have to throw out virgin birth.
Check this out.

there were over 200 gospels in circulation at the time. constatine convened the council to vote thus 4 survived and the other thrown out as rubbish.

The biggest proof of christianity being false is that the christian societies are prone to wars and pilligings.

answer this if jesus died for your sins then what about the sins of people who lived before the cruxifixion and what about those who lived in china.

Originally posted by scienceguy94
DUDE you cannot pick and choose which part of the new testament to keep. if you throw out the christmas you have to throw out virgin birth.
Check this out.

The bible does not say celebrate Christmass
the word mass denotes the celebration of death

The bible says NOT to celebrate Christmass (it has nothing to do with YAHSHUA HaMASIYACH [aka Jesus the Christ]):
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Jesus was born probably on Yom Kippur...So, as a Messianic Jew if you keep that Feast, you would also be celebrating the day that the Word of God took on human flesh, the fulness of the Diety in HIM... HE humbled HIMSELF, taking on human form forever to be a redeemed person's companion forever... and then, as if that wasn't enough... HE set HIS face like flint to the cross...
you know the rest.
HE lived. HE died. Rose. Then (the BEST part): Ascended over EVERY principality and power and title that can be given in any age...
Now HE has authority to GIVE you out of LOVE:
ETERNAL LIFE...
which is to KNOW God:
the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
in this life, through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit
and for all eternity to be with HIM and KNOW HIM!!

Okay thats what you call the gospel. nice.

Im a Christian. I dont celebrate Christmas...I have no instruction in the Olde Testament or the New Testament to celebrate a birthday. However you do find this custom among the pagans...a concept that even Christians are to ignorant upon which to check.
The Sabbath of which I know..is a person ..not a day.. for all days belong to my Lord..not just a day. I am to keep Him every day. Not on a Sunday or a Saturday. Just as the Hebrews were to keep the Lord of Hosts every day ..in the manner they dressed...the manner they prepared their foods, gleaned their fields..to show that they were a peculear people. We are not today to take on the appearence and values of the world. We as Christians are to seperate ourselves from those or that thing which would corrupt us away from the Faith. So to it was with the Hebrews of olde.
I dont celebrate easter either. Nor birthdays. Nor halloween ..obviously.

Thanks,
Orangetom

how do messianic jews observe shabbat?

The thing that I don't get is that the Ten Commandments tell us that we should keep holy the Sabbath.....but, still, most Christians keep Sunday holy....not Saturday. Aren't Christians sinning?

And don't tell me that under the New Covenant, we "changed" the sabbath to Sunday.......I just don't think that man or religion has the authority to change the word of God.....after all, God was rather specific about keeping the Sabbath -- not Sunday -- holy.

Originally posted by seawater999
Jesus was born probably on Yom Kippur...

I've done a lot of research on this, and what I have come to, so far, is that He was born on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, 15 Tishrei the year of His birth.

And so I think that Yom Kippur is something still in the future (that is, the second fulfillment).

But that's just what I, personally, have arrived at.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
The thing that I don't get is that the Ten Commandments tell us that we should keep holy the Sabbath.....but, still, most Christians keep Sunday holy....not Saturday. Aren't Christians sinning?

And don't tell me that under the New Covenant, we "changed" the sabbath to Sunday.......I just don't think that man or religion has the authority to change the word of God.....after all, God was rather specific about keeping the Sabbath -- not Sunday -- holy.

Hi benevolent tyrant
The Sabbath is the Forth Commandment. There was no change. Jesus came to fulfill the law not to destroy it. If you break any of the commandments you are transgressing from the law. If Christians did not know they where in sin over this; They must repent and keep ALL the commandments. ...Pretty simple huh?

If you Love Him you will keep ALL of His commandments.

So who did it... Nobody can change the Sabbath day, but MAN will attempt.

"We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea (364 A.D.) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." The Converts' Catechism, Peter Geirmann, page 50. (This catechism received the pope's blessing on Jan. 25, 1910.) LINK

Yes; and we ought to obey you know who rather than MAN.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by GameSetMatch]

I believe you should keep the sabbath....a day of rest, but I do not believe that it matters which day is the sabbath.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


I do not think that the sabbath rest is the same rest being spoken of in Heb4 that we have in Christ Jesus, but rather an example of it.

Originally posted by dbates
The way you were raised is correct. Sabbath is as you said Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. Christians set aside Sunday as the day of worship because Jesus was raised from the dead on Sunday, .............

[edit on 16-11-2005 by dbates]

Uh-oh;
Sorry to rock your boat, but that is not the reason Christians celebrate Sabbath as Sunday.
It was changed by the Holy Roman church and Constantine.
They were trying to remove any flavor of Judaism from their worship because of their hate of the Jews.
Christians were to celebrate on Sunday OR ELSE by decree by the "Edict of.....something or another (been a long time since I researched it)".
If you think I am wrong , do research on "The History OF Sabbath" and on "Constantine".

God's word is plain in Torah, both Genesis and Deuteronomy, that Friday sundown to Saturday sundown is Sabbath.
Banjo

Originally posted by scienceguy94
how do messianic jews observe shabbat?

The way YAHSHUA (Jesus) did!!

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*edit # 1:
HOW DO WE KEEP SHABBAT?

Ultimately, we should be led by the Spirit. The scriptures are clear that on the 7th day we rest -do no work. We can think of YAHSHUA and how HE rested, whenever we are unsure about what "work" is. Common knowledge: Jesus Christ (YAHSHUA HaMASIYACH) was a carpenter as HE dwelt amoung us in the flesh. That is the type of "work" YAHSHUA did not do on the 7th day. The Holy Spirit keeps telling me this word:

mun·dane adj.

Of, relating to, or typical of this world; secular.
Relating to, characteristic of, or concerned with commonplaces; ordinary.
It is the mundane work of this world that we are to abstain from on this day. Instead, we should be totally focused on our FATHER's business: healing the whole man> Spiritual Alignment [Healing]

Of course, we rest in YAH through YAHSHUA 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. YAHSHUA is the Prince of Peace and HIS eternal gospel (Rev 14:6) is the gospel of peace (Eph 6). But, we cannot abstain from "mundane" work every day. We are in this world (though not of it) and we should not become idle (2 Thes 3:6-12).

HIS disciples follow HIS example. HE kept the 7th day.

WHEN DOES SHABBAT START?

At sundown, -no matter where you are.

Leviticus 23:32: From evening unto evening shall you celebrate your Sabbaths.

*edit #2 sundown friday to sundown saturday

[edit on 17-11-2005 by seawater999]

[edit on 17-11-2005 by seawater999]

The Sabbath of which I know..is a person ..not a day.. for all days belong to my Lord..not just a day. I am to keep Him every day. Not on a Sunday or a Saturday.

HE is not a day. correct! But the 4th commandment says to keep the Shabbat DAY holy!

I believe you should keep the sabbath....a day of rest, but I do not believe that it matters which day is the sabbath.

Dan 7: 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Satan counterfeits everything. This includes the shabbat. (Satan attempts to pervert all that God is and does [Ezek 38 (esp. v6-10) Is 14 (esp. v12-22) 2 Cor 11:3-4; Mt 13:24-30, 36-43]).
Satan has already counterfeited a day which is Sunday; (it is the first day [but, if you count backwards from the true shabbat its the 7th day for Satan]).

Num 15: 32And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. [this man was doing his own work, not resting fully in YAH] 33And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely putto death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

Satan has his false shabbat, but before the return of the Son of Man (YAHSHUA) at Armagedon, Satan will also have a satanic punishment (death) for breaking his satanic shabbat (Sunday). If this does not begin soon, it will before the Tribulation is over (if it has not already begun [think about the Middle Ages or the French Revolution of Robespierre as foreshadows]).

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BANJO_GURU:

Christians were to celebrate on Sunday OR ELSE by decree by the "Edict of.....something or another (been a long time since I researched it)".

MAYBE, you should re-examine that scripture from Romans in light of these scriptures. The day matters my dear friend!

It matters. But, we are held accountable for what we know (Matt. 18:6-9; Luke 17:1, 2). Now you know.

I do not think that the sabbath rest is the same rest being spoken of in Heb4 that we have in Christ Jesus, but rather an example of it.

Of course we rest in Jesus (YAHSHUA) 24/7, but still that day still stands:

Paul tells us that the promise of rest in YAHSHUA still stands. And admonishes us to be careful not to fall short. The same gospel that is preached to us has been preached to those that followed Moses. HIS gospel is eternal (Rev 14:6). We enter into HIS rest when we conbine the message with faith. We are justified by faith, alone.

Heb 4: 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, "As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest": [quote < Psalm 95 : 7-8] although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.



Paul makes a point to make a distinction between the shabbat-day and this eternal shabbat rest we have in YAH that no one can come into, but by the Son (John14:6).

Heb 4: 4 For he spake in a certain placeof theseventh day on this wise, "And God did rest the seventh dayfrom all his works". [quote < Gen 2: 2].


[ < Gen 2:2 < is speaking of the 7th day-shabbat. BUT > Ps 95: 7-8 is a reference to the gospel-shabbat (peace) > ]


Heb 4: 5And in this place again
[repeating Heb 4:3],
"If they shall enter into my rest".
[quote < Psalm 95: 7-8].


Today is always the day of salvation!! This is just like 2 Cor 6: 1-2 (< go read it).

Heb 4: 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.


When we preach the gospel, who are we to tell when FATHER will cut off the hearers from the land of the living. So,"Today is the day of salvation!!!"

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seawater

Scripture tells us to keep the sabbath. It does not command us to keep the 7th day. It says sabbath.
Now we have the tradition of Israel that puts it on saturday, and then we have the tradition of some of those same jews, who became christians...followers of Christ..saying it doesnt matter what day.

I will have to defer to scripture. I dont know all of it by heart , so if you can show me some overlooked scripture that tells a specific day then we will have to look at Paul again.

Till then, I have to go with Pauls reasoning.

I am not under the law,l am under grace
God see's your heart.
If you put yourself back under the law, then you must keep the entire law.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

that circumcision was part of the law.
The point is that you keep the sabbath.
NOT that you keep the seventh day

I'll be looking forward to your next post