Beware of the Patriot Act! Taking pictures of Trains is illegal!

Beware of the Patriot Act! Taking pictures of Trains is illegal!

Date: November 9, 2005 10:26
Photography prohibited
Author: rfprr

The railfan community in up in arms, and rightly so, over the recent photography ban from the Bear Mountain Bride spanning both CSX's River Line and Metro North's Hudson Line in NY State. Last night, while taking a UPS load from NJ to Suffolk,NY on Long Island, I noticed "Photography Prohibited" "Strictly Enforced" signs on both the George Wasington Bridge and the Throgs Neck Bridge. While I can maybe see the ban from the Throgs Neck as there are no pedestrian walkways, both the Bear Mountain and George Washington bridges have walkways. Is this becoming something unique to the New York City metro area or is this a nationwide trend?

rfprr
www.trainorders.com...,1035109

Beware of the Patriot Act! I've heard a lot of negative talk about the act, but I tried to let it run off my back like water off a duck.

Now, it has really hit home, learning of the provision that won't allow a citizen to photograph railroad trains.

This has been mine and thousands of others harmless hobby for many years. If this law had been in effect in years gone by, there would ne photos of "The Rebel," Bogalusa and the South's first streamlined train, no historic pictures of the Great Southern Lumber Co.'s railroad logging operations or the redwood trains that came to Bogalusa.
You might not care about your right to use a camera, but you better beware of what is hidden in this act.

Terry Quinn
www.edailynews.info...

More Anti-Camera Absurdity

New York City is about to ban "unauthorized" use of cameras in the subways, as per this rule (170k pdf):

1050.9.c. No photograph, film or video recording shall be made or taken on or in any conveyance or facility by any person, except members of the press holding valid press identification cards issued by the New York City Police Department or by others duly authorized in writing to engage in such activity by the authority. All photographic activity must be conducted in accordance with the provisions of this Part.

The absurdity is pointed out by a local photographer in a story in today's NY Times. She says:
"The bizarre bureaucratic mind somehow thinks a terrorist needs to be standing there with a visible camera to figure out a place to put a bomb, when obviously technology has reached a point where tiny little video cameras can have eyeballs peering out from your buttonhole."

And, of course, the rule makes the increasingly bogus distinction between amateurs and professionals.

To those who will now say in the comments that the NYC officials are only doing what's necessary to combat terrorism, I have a question. What about the thousands upon thousands of subway pictures already out there? As the Times story notes, the proposed photo ban coincides with new books and exhibitions of, yes, subway photos.
I don't doubt that some officials believe they're making life just a wee bit harder for terrorists, and therefore that the ban must somehow be acceptable. The bureaucratic mind today is paralyzed with being the scapegoat after the next attack on our soil, which is inevitable.

There's no serious risk assessment going on here, largely because technology makes it just about impossible to stop people from taking pictures for whatever reason. Worse, this rule is a step toward something that should worry all of us. When journalists need licenses -- when people need the government's permission to ask the kinds of questions journalists (and concerned citizens) ask every day, the government has new kinds of power.
dangillmor.typepad.com...
» This Picture is Now Illegal from tecosystems

Taking the D Train Up to the Lion's Den Originally uploaded by sogrady. Dan Gillmor is reporting that this picture - documenting my trip up to Yankee Stadium for Game 1 of the ALCS

photos2.flickr.com...

I've got a say about this.

We are not terrorists, we are a group, a very large group that is, that I like to see what we love. That is the 4 million pounds of steel rolling through a neighborhood or through the countryside of this great land of ours. Almost 800,000 miles of track in this country and Canada, and it would be very hard to impossible to enforce such a law like that! Imagine the number of people both governments would have to hire just for that reason. Plus, a majority of the seven Class 1 railroads in the U.S. and Canada, 5 roads out of 7 of the Class 1s, travel through some of the most desolate, dangerous, and steepest terrain in the Eastern Hemisphere.

So next time you hear one coming, grab your camera and get a picture!

I read the act when it was first initiated. I saw it - and still see it - as a return to the Alien Sedition Act (Redux 3 or 4) under Adams against Jefferson. The act itself is nothing short of treason. It should be struck down in its entirety, and those that voted for it - and introduced it - should bear the burden of having done so. Especially Senators who are supposed to be deliberate in their governance. (Bah!)

No one believed me when I said it was an abomination against the U.S. Constitution, they never bothered reading the thing. It violates the Bill of Rights in their entirety. Restricts freedom of speech, of travel, from search. Of course, it is nothing more than the natural evolution of the laws introduced by the drug war. (Another unconstitutional idiocy that just keeps costing taxpayers more and more money. )

I have hope since the Alien Sedition Act was eventually struck down. If the SCOTUS is actually made up of real conservatives - not neo-cons - we will see this abomination struck down. Unfortunately, the wheels of justice turn very slowly, and we will have to wait and see.

Honestly, every night I pray the pendulum swings even further from the Bushies and their neo-con friends. They make Andy Jackson look competent! How appropriate that Bush had his speech in front of his statue at the site of the New Orleans hurricane. Must be the president he was trying to emulate guess what, he surpassed Jackson's incompetence.

As to the rabble that used to be the Republican party, well, they ain't conservatives these days. Real conservatives don't believe in mixing religion and government. And they certainly don't believe in a surveillance state. Of course, most people seem to think that safety is more important than freedom. Myself, I believe freedom is more important than safety. Now, if the real conservatives were to find their unmentionables, we might see impeachment hearings. But they have turned into sniveling cowards by this administration.

Ah well, republics and democracies don't last, do they? Historically, they always give way to empires, wonder what this one will end up looking like.

Pax,

mlo

gimmefootball400 as a fellow Railfan all I can say is cast your vote against partys who support the patriot act.

WAIT a minute I thought the armed population of America was spose to prevent the government from going bad.
What are the gun lovers waiting for ?
Prove me wrong , prove that a hand gun is a match for the US military.
Whats next ?
N scale model railroads will be band?


[edit on 14-11-2005 by xpert11]

I was driving back from picking up a new motorcycle in PA yesterday when I saw a military (probably national guard) vehicle pulling a helicopter on a trailer down I-81. That isn't something that I see everyday, so my first instinct was to pull out my digital camera (I usually keep it handy in case I ever do see a UFO) and take a picture.

Then I thought about it. I decided that there was too much risk of such an action being misinterpeted by whoever might be driving, given the state of our national paranoia these days. I did not take a picture. I doubt anything would have happened, and I may have been a little too cautious, but you truly never know. Such thoughts would not have occured to me 5 years ago.

You've got to be kidding me! How low, better yet how far are the govt. Gestapo going to go with all of this crap. Pretty soon it is going to be against the law to take a leak in the woods. I could seee it now: Some ninja type dude drops out of the top of the tree with a rope and yells "gotcha"

Originally posted by xpert11
WAIT a minute I thought the armed population of America was spose to prevent the government from going bad.
What are the gun lovers waiting for ?
Prove me wrong , prove that a hand gun is a match for the US military.
[edit on 14-11-2005 by xpert11]

One handgun might not be a match for the US military. But some 190 million gun owners and some 300 million private guns in the US is. That is a insurgency that would be a nightmare for any army on the planet.

and people think a insurgency in a country like Iraq is bad.

Then I thought about it. I decided that there was too much risk of such an action being misinterpeted by whoever might be driving, given the state of our national paranoia these days. I did not take a picture. I doubt anything would have happened, and I may have been a little too cautious, but you truly never know. Such thoughts would not have occured to me 5 years ago.

well, you didnt expect the conditioning to be complete in just a few major events did you? naturally, it takes a good 10 years before the vicegrip is too tight to excape.

*with hands cupped by mouth, "TIMBRE!"

Originally posted by xpert11

WAIT a minute I thought the armed population of America was spose to prevent the government from going bad.
What are the gun lovers waiting for ?
[edit on 14-11-2005 by xpert11]

Get all the Anti-Gun wimps to stop banning/trying to ban eveything that looks scary, and allow us responsible gun owners to own things that will make the goverment think twice about ******ing us over and the problem could be solved.

Unless you are rich buying a Full auto is out of the question, As it is now, aside from raw numbers of civilian owned firearms, most of which are hunting rifles and small caliber pistols, Joe Schmoe on the street doesnt stand a chance against our goverment

When the 2nd amendment was made, civilians could access the same types of weapons the military had.

Now we cant, Even if a revolution started, a good number of the "crazy gun nuts", the "anti's" refer to are either to old or to fat to do anything, The other group have nothing more then a handgun or two, and an even smaler group have a civlian semi-automatic version of military weapons.

In other words unless laws allow Joe Schmoe access to real toys, regardless of the raw number of guns in the states, we dont stand a chance.

But that will never happen because the "anti's" are to caught up in the "what iff's"or the "omg it looks scary" rather then reality.

[edit on 14-11-2005 by C0le]

Originally posted by FLYIN HIGH
You've got to be kidding me! How low, better yet how far are the govt. Gestapo going to go with all of this crap. Pretty soon it is going to be against the law to take a leak in the woods. I could seee it now: Some ninja type dude drops out of the top of the tree with a rope and yells "gotcha"

Heh, funny you saying that. In Norway, it IS actually against the law to wee in the forrest!!
If caught by the babylons, you will be fined with approx. 50$


Laws do not prevent crime, respect does.
Laws do not prevent crime, it is a moneymaker for the Government.
Laws only make more people criminal.

This is why the railroad police or the town's police don't have a problem with me. I respect the laws of the railroads and what they are here to do. What the U.S. government is just trying to do is they are trying to take another freedom from us. It wasn't until last year that they thought the railroads where a good target for "terrorists" because of the terror attacks over in Madrid. HELLO, YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE "TERRORISTS" WOULD HAVE ALREADY STRUCK OUR RAILROADS!!!! But, here's the deal about that, those "terrorists" could care less about our transit system because they want to go after the financial establishments and our landmarks.

By the way, I surely hope that they don't ban model railroading in the near future. This is because I have an N Scale layout in the planning stages right now. Then if we can't take pictures of those trains, how are we going to base a layout on prototypical operations?

The NWO's next big investment, under martial law, is the soon-to-be legalized transportation of human cargo for forced labor and execution via none other than independent contractors.

Arbeit mach frei...

It's been four years since the "terror" attacks of 9-11, so why worry about the railroads now??? I personally believe that those "terrorists" have better targets on their minds.

Originally posted by gimmefootball400
It's been four years since the "terror" attacks of 9-11, so why worry about the railroads now??? I personally believe that those "terrorists" have better targets on their minds.

Im a big fan of the Patriot Act and I think EVERY American here in ATS should Thank our good President for getting this enacted. I sleep a little better at night knowing our boys in the FBI are not "shackeled" with idiotic restrictions.

If some Middle-Eastern guy is taking multiple pictures of a railstation or of freight trains...he outta be Jacked-up with good reason!!

These are dangerous times, better safe than sorry....we're not gonna wait for some frieght train hauling poisonous gasses to explode near a residential neighborhood.

Maximu§


[edit on 093030p://111 by LA_Maximus]

LA_Maximus, something like what you said can happen at any time, any day, any place. It doesn't nessecarily have to be a "terrorist" incident, it can be the same type of accident that occured in Graniteville, South Carolina back in Janurary. Was that a terror attack??? I DON'T THINK SO!

By the way, that crash only killed eight, not two-hundred like you thought it would have. The chemical involved in that crash was Chlorine.

[edit on 11/14/2005 by gimmefootball400]

Shawdo how will hand guns defend against the use of WMDs?
Why would the US gov bother fighting a Iraq type war?
LA max you dont suppose Americas enemys would brainwash white people to avoid your kind of thinking?

Guns compared to WMDs are just a spec on the radar when it comes down to the size and amount of damage. As for why our government went to war in Iraq is because Bush and his cronies wanted to divert attention from their faultering War on "Terror." I don't think that terrorists have brainwashing Americans on their minds right now, nor will they have it because they could care less about brainwashing. Hey I've avoided that kind of thinking and I haven't been brainwashed!

I think I should elabrate a bit more. Since the likes of LA arent bothered when a white person photos trains wouldnt the terrorists use white people to gather intel?
As for brainwashing the likes of fox news and other media outlets do that quite well people dont even have to get off the couch to be told what to think anymore.

If and when the time comes there will be no shortage of guns in the hands of those that would use them.

The US goverment could never get away with using large scale WMD on its own population. The use of such would ensure even more rising up against them. That just isnt a option.

How long do you think our volunteer armies would stand against their own?

If our population truly needed to overthrow the goverment it would be a rather easy thing to do. At least for now..

For the gun issue between all the hunting rifles/shotguns and handguns out there against the US Military, there will be plenty of opportunity for the militia to scavenge weapons and ammo. People can be smart enough to us guerilla tactics and ambush small units, wiping them out and taking what they need. All you have to do is really know a little bit of history in warfare to figure this out. After that it all really matters about leadership and organization. A well organized militia, even statewide with inferior weaponry, can still take out a superior force.

For the Patriot Act, I really don't think it's necessary. Most new laws aren't really. If we just had a basic system of laws narrowed down really well it would work out fine. Any cop can stop anybody and question them about activities and based on whether or not the cop feels like we're doing something wrong, can take us in. That's their job really. It's up to the courts to decide if we actually broke a law. I'm just glad most cops don't do this because then there'd be more people in jail waiting on a hearing...

Banning picture taking is quite stupid actually. I can see certain instances though. Military installations being one. It always made me nervous on Kadena AB when I saw people taking pictures from just outside the fenceline and there was nothing we could do about it...

Originally posted by Xerrog


The US goverment could never get away with using large scale WMD on its own population. The use of such would ensure even more rising up against them. That just isnt a option.

Really? Sounds like wishfull thinking given that the general population has no or little protection against WMDs it would be one of the first options a rogue government would consider.

How long do you think our volunteer armies would stand against their own?

About as long as it takes for a F-16 to drop its payload.

If our population truly needed to overthrow the goverment it would be a rather easy thing to do. At least for now..

And yet the general population has made no move to put there guns where there mouth is ......................

Shaker the problem that the pro gun lobby ignores is that 200 years ago the general population carried the same weapons as there military counter parts that isnt the case today.
Even if you wanted to have modern military weapons in your home how would you afford them?

While its true guerilla warfare has defeated great powers you have to take into account the facts.
For example T.E Lawrence took advantage of the deserts in the middle east because he knew the Turks didnt venture into the desert.
The Viet Cong took advantage of the fact that jungle warfare wasnt a focus of the US military.

What advantage will you have over the US military?

I have seen the images on TV of armed people being forced from there homes after hurricane Katrina.
How do you know people will use there hand guns to fight ?