Atlantis and the Azores Islands?

reply to post by darthdescendent


its quite possible that an impact even a shallow one started the whole thing

wher was north america in all of this?

did no one live there?

hello?

Atlantis is North and south america

there are pyramids and ancient structures to prove it.

reply to post by optimus fett



Charles Berlitz was the idiot who stuck Atlantis in the Atlantic because as a linguist he never got around to learning Greek. Had he, he might not have come off as the ignoramus he was. Plato described Atlantis as being outside of the Pillars of Hercules. Greeks back then referred to two places as the Pillars of Hercules, the Bosporus Straits and the straits of Gibraltar, each end of their sailing range, and usually they meant the Bosporus Straits because they sailed east far more often than west and most of their settlements were east of what is now Greece. Outside of the Bosporus Strait is Santorini, (Thira) which at one time was a Mother of all Volcano (and Atlantis means huge mountain in Greek, how about that little coincidence.) More so Atlantis was said to have more than exploded but sunk, and that is exactly what most of Santorini did. However, there was enough warning that the porcelain making community there to escape (and report the island sank. The dig on Santorini -- Akroteri -- is older and more extensive than Pomei. ) Tidal waves then wiped out the Minoan civilization on Crete. The Minoas were as ancient to the ancient Greeks as the Ancient Greeks are to us now, but for their day the people on Santorini were indeed more advanced than other peoples in the area.

If not for the ignorant garbage by Berlitz, Santorini would be beyond any doubt the origin of the Atlantis stories. It fits the bill perfectly without torture, twists, mysteries or appeals to the supernatural. Not only that but there is ample of evidence for Santorini and squat for any such place in the Atlantic. And ponder this, the ancients did not sail into the Atlantic at all, and there is no evidence of tidal waves from such an even hitting the shores of western Europe, Africa or even England. Crete, however, still shows the effects of tidal waves.



[edit on 2-6-2008 by Straight Razor]

acutally there are ,though more minor ones in history.. like the global flood , large volcanos and earthquakes. and dont forget about some large impacts that we dont see due to erosion.. the earth has a great facility to heal most of those wounds. and underwater currents can cause a lot of erosion as well and theres also continental drift and with the passage of so much time a lot of silt has built up, not to mention that the azores r mountaintop islands just like the canary islands.. they really havent tried to gadge how deep the bedrock could be under the floor or even if there are mulipal layers i'd think they would have to use deep penetrating sonar to look beneath the silt on the floor.. there is also the possiblity that the landmass was mostly on porus rock and not on bedrock, or basalt.. while u make a valid point, i think there could be a reasonable explanation for the said area.. i remember reading on yahoo news that there was supposed to be a long hole in the atlantic, it was supposed to be just basalt and nothing else on it.. i'll see if i can track that down..

i know about the pillars suggestion being on the eastern part of the med sea thats why some people think that the modern day town of kerech, ukraine is the location of atlantis because they think that the atlantic ocean that plato talked about was what is now the black sea. I don't see how this is possible the stories out of egypt was of a great empire/kingdom to the west. They believe that the first kings of egypt were from this western empire. These God-Kings were this land to the west. The legend tells that the first kings of atlantis were the sons of Poseidon. Poseidon was the greek god of the sea. The atlantis story from a Tibetan tale even speaks of a falling star (could also be a meteorite/asteroid) destorying atlantis.

except from that tale:

"When the star of Bal fell on the place where now is only the sky and the sea, the seven cities with their golden gates and transparent temples, quivered and shook like the leaves in a storm; and, behold, a flood of fire and smoke arose from the palaces."

Now I'm not in any way trying to tell people they are wrong to think that Santorini was Atlantis but just too must evidence points west of Europe for the location.

As for the tidal waves not hitting Europe. How do we know that the waves weren't coming from that direction when they hit Atlantis. And to answer the comment made about the mid atlantic ridge being above water and the waves hitting them. If the waves came from the east (which they would in order to hit atlantis AND the ridge) then its possible that as they hit the ridge they in turn headed back east hitting the western directional ones canceling each other out, only to leave Atlantis in the wake of all of them... thus flooding the Island. As for why the ridge was above water, I don't think its because the ridge was higher but because during the ice age the water levels were a lot lower then they are now. It is very possible that the ridge extended out of the water like a mountain range or even a long string of islands. There is a theory out there as well that Atlantis was part of a large land bridge that extended from europe and northern africa down to South America. Which also explains the fact that the central and southern american acient civilizations have mention of Atlantis.



A good Atlantis read

reply to post by darthdescendent


hi there,

i like your theory, i have always considered it to be in the atlantic area, and that the seas were a lot lower, uk and france/belgium were connected by land.

snoopyuk

reply to post by snoopyuk


If that was the case then the Gibraltar strait would be closed and there could not be communication between Athens and Atlantis.

We we accept Plato's description of Atlantis regarding location and date, then we also have to accept that 12,000 years ago Athens was a flourishing bronze age city state with an army capable of defeating that of the Atlanteans ......

So where is Athens? And why did they not advance beyond the bronze age over the subsequent 9,000 years?

it is possible that the straits were closed but people still knew how to travel by land. As for athens not flurishing throughout history... thats quite easily explained... once Atlantis sank and its people scattered across the globe, athens had noone to fight, the break down in athenians caused the people to break away from athens. Thus brought about the spartans, and the other greek city states. Sparta was of course the military familys and so on and so forth. Thats why there was so much diversity between the greek city-states. I mean even the romans were former greeks who left greece and founded the lands of the italian boot. Its also possible just for the sake of discussion that the straits weren't closed or open but were a swampy marsh that was passable by smaller boats, just a thought.

Just a plain old bump

I was curious about the information that was debunking the atlantian theory based on the north american and euopean continents being joined at one time and the continental drift theory. perhaps that all is true, continental drift theory seems to show the split along the mid atlantic ridge and the puzzle fit and what would have caused such a split may very well have been the mid atlantic ridge fault line. perhaps as the drift theory is millions of years old and the drift is continual based on the spewing of lava from the earths cores continuous activity, atlantis, (much like the documentary of the volcanic Kracatoa that exploded in the 1800's and is forming again), may have formed much later then the splitting of the continents or maybe the rise of the continent atlantis was the cause for the north american and european contients splitting apart...just a thought...

If you want to find out more about Atlantis and the Azores I recommend you read Otto Muck’s secrets of Atlantis in which he makes several engaging arguments:
www.amazon.com...
It is perhaps the best place to start when studying the mystery of Atlantis as he spent much of his life gathering information for the book.
If you cannot find the book I will leave you with one breadcrumb: 10000 years ago northern Europe was covered in sheets of glacial ice. Yet now it has a temperate climate due largely to the Gulf Stream. Why did the gulf steam not affect Europe 10000 years ago and melt the ice?
Follow the crumbs and you will have your answer...

atlantis could be in the azore region but it probably isnt recognizable now, even with underwater imaging, it probably was total redecorated is what common history calls the flood, cataclysm, deluge. what could have cause such a event, if one assume an outside source, that could be a star, or meteor, asteroid.
we think that africa and america were together at one point. they fit like a puzzel, right?

how did they get so many mile apart, whatever started this shift, must be big, or a slow moving thing over a long time. if they the continents are seperating at 2 inches a year, it would take million of year for that alone to seperate the land to where it is today.

something like a rock hitting the earth would speed this movent up. the rock would have to hit somehwere in between africa and america.
so lookk at a map and what will you find that resemble a rock hitting the earth in tha region,
i leave no time for answering that question, take my answer. the gulf of mexico. it is like a perfect fist punched in that land. from the south tip of florida to the cuba region to the north tip of the yucatan in mexico where cancun is located, it closes the big circle around the gulf. recent underwater imaging had show a rock did punch that area and its mark is in the texas side of the gulf.

www.astronomy.com...

so we know what could of started the movement of the continents, did it move the atlantiens i dont know, but i know that there land in the atlantic is supper vulnerable to earthquakes. i am from one of the azore island, i dont live there now but i visit periodically. it is common knowledge today to those living on the island, that they live on a ticking time bomb so to speak, the live daily with tremmors, and it is a way of life, to experience the ground shaking daily is not what i live or go through here in toronto, furthermore, the atlantianes could have had bad luck and be on the continent of atlantis at a bad time. and probably not living on the tip tops of the mountain range where im from, they probably lived on lower levels which had more space to cultivate for a mass population. lower levels which are not around now.

two more coincidence that need to be factored in. why are there now, due to recent discovery in bosnia, two identical pyramids just done on different scales, one much larger then the other. these two pyramids are the Mayan chichen itza pyramids, and the bosnian pyramid of the sun only recently discoverd under much soil grass and trees. this bosnian pyramid is now the largest in the world, taller then Giza pyramid of eygpt.

www.nationalufocenter.com...

to understand atlantis you have to think big and long time ago when nothing was like it is now, nothing was like history tell of 2000 years ago. now was like nothing because your talking so long ago 10 000 plus more years ago,

what do people think of a race that went east and west and created what you see in eurpoe egypt and the americas, haveing origined in the middle of them all would put them in the atlantic.





i would love to dicuss more about this topic all responses welcome, please add or fix my story with fact you know that fit

atlantis could be in the azore region but it probably isnt recognizable now, even with underwater imaging, it probably was total redecorated is what common history calls the flood, cataclysm, deluge. what could have cause such a event, if one assume an outside source, that could be a star, or meteor, asteroid.
we think that africa and america were together at one point. they fit like a puzzel, right?

how did they get so many mile apart, whatever started this shift, must be big, or a slow moving thing over a long time. if they the continents are seperating at 2 inches a year, it would take million of year for that alone to seperate the land to where it is today.

something like a rock hitting the earth would speed this movent up. the rock would have to hit somehwere in between africa and america.
so lookk at a map and what will you find that resemble a rock hitting the earth in tha region,
i leave no time for answering that question, take my answer. the gulf of mexico. it is like a perfect fist punched in that land. from the south tip of florida to the cuba region to the north tip of the yucatan in mexico where cancun is located, it closes the big circle around the gulf. recent underwater imaging had show a rock did punch that area and its mark is in the texas side of the gulf.

www.astronomy.com...

so we know what could of started the movement of the continents, did it move the atlantiens i dont know, but i know that there land in the atlantic is supper vulnerable to earthquakes. i am from one of the azore island, i dont live there now but i visit periodically. it is common knowledge today to those living on the island, that they live on a ticking time bomb so to speak, the live daily with tremmors, and it is a way of life, to experience the ground shaking daily is not what i live or go through here in toronto, furthermore, the atlantianes could have had bad luck and be on the continent of atlantis at a bad time. and probably not living on the tip tops of the mountain range where im from, they probably lived on lower levels which had more space to cultivate for a mass population. lower levels which are not around now.

two more coincidence that need to be factored in. why are there now, due to recent discovery in bosnia, two identical pyramids just done on different scales, one much larger then the other. these two pyramids are the Mayan chichen itza pyramids, and the bosnian pyramid of the sun only recently discoverd under much soil grass and trees. this bosnian pyramid is now the largest in the world, taller then Giza pyramid of eygpt.

www.nationalufocenter.com...

to understand atlantis you have to think big and long time ago when nothing was like it is now, nothing was like history tell of 2000 years ago. now was like nothing because your talking so long ago 10 000 plus more years ago,

what do people think of a race that went east and west and created what you see in eurpoe egypt and the americas, haveing origined in the middle of them all would put them in the atlantic.





i would love to dicuss more about this topic all responses welcome, please add or fix my story with fact you know that fit

Originally posted by yaasun
how did they get so many mile apart, whatever started this shift, must be big, or a slow moving thing over a long time. if they the continents are seperating at 2 inches a year, it would take million of year for that alone to seperate the land to where it is today.

Yes, the theory that is considered most close to the truth (and confirmed by observations) is that the continents are drifting apart, and they have been doing it for millions of years.

something like a rock hitting the earth would speed this movent up. the rock would have to hit somehwere in between africa and america.

There is no need of speeding up the movement, the movement has been present for millions of years.

the gulf of mexico. it is like a perfect fist punched in that land. from the south tip of florida to the cuba region to the north tip of the yucatan in mexico where cancun is located, it closes the big circle around the gulf. recent underwater imaging had show a rock did punch that area and its mark is in the texas side of the gulf.

Yes, but I think that event is relatively recent, if that had happened long ago, the movement of the rest of the continents would have broken what was left of Mexico.

so we know what could of started the movement of the continents, did it move the atlantiens i dont know, but i know that there land in the atlantic is supper vulnerable to earthquakes. i am from one of the azore island, i dont live there now but i visit periodically.

Another Portuguese?

it is common knowledge today to those living on the island, that they live on a ticking time bomb so to speak, the live daily with tremmors, and it is a way of life, to experience the ground shaking daily is not what i live or go through here in toronto, furthermore, the atlantianes could have had bad luck and be on the continent of atlantis at a bad time.

From north to south there is a "cut" on the ocean floor, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, from where lava is constantly erupting and creating new ocean floor, while the continents move away.

All that area has many earthquakes, including the Azores.

As far as I know, Atlantis never existed there. Even if there was a small continent in the middle of the Atlantic, today there should exist some remnants of its presence on the ocean floor; being protected by the ocean, the ocean floor is less vulnerable to meteors and other highly destructive events.

two more coincidence that need to be factored in. why are there now, due to recent discovery in bosnia, two identical pyramids just done on different scales, one much larger then the other.

The supposed Bosnian pyramids, in my opinion, are not pyramids, and with all the time they had to prove it they were not able to do it, things remain more or less as they were when the "pyramids" were "discovered".

to understand atlantis you have to think big and long time ago when nothing was like it is now, nothing was like history tell of 2000 years ago.

To understand Atlantis you should know that the only real reference is in a story.

There are too many ideas and theories about Atlantis, but I have never seen any that has real data to back it up, they are all based on Plato's story or on things that are not proved, like "channelling" information from somewhere.

Could Plato's story (remember that in the story the Athenians defeated the Atlanteans) be based on something real? Maybe, but that only Plato knew.

reply to post by ArMaP


hi armap

good post , star for you.

gonna be in portugal fulltime from 17th sept.

take care

steve

reply to post by snoopyuk


Thanks.


yaasun

I almost forgot, welcome to ATS.

reply to post by ArMaP


thanks for the welcome, it was my first post pretty much and i like the quick response, this place looks like it will be fun. look forward to future convos, and thank you for the educated well written response, exactly what id like to see.

So many replies are a good thing. Atlantis is either the mother of all fairy tales by Plato or the biggest historical event ever. No one can be sure but It's a good sign that scientists and teams are starting to conduct studies and tests there in the Azores. I thought they should do so for years now.
As for the vehement claims that Atlantis could be elsewhere I strongly suggest that anyone who cares about the subject closely read Timaeus and Critias dialogues by Plato. They are both very short. For instance, regardless of which pillars of heracles it was in the story it states that the furthest kingdom on Atlantis was named Gades and it faced the land on Europe with the same name. Gades is only the ancient name for Cadiz in western Spain and directly faces the present day Azores. This combined with other descriptions are to me at least compelling.
I also believe a super cataclysmic event was possible in the Azores region in fairly recent geological history given the fact that this small underwater region called the Azores Plateau(Atlantis?) is the only spot in the world where three major continents(africa, north america, europe) all diverge onto each other. Very frequently even today with tumultuous results. These conditions in the Azores leave the description in Timaeus and Critias startlingly similar(volcanically active major fault line, hot and cold springs, red and black volcanic dirt, endemic flora in a tropical climate, a low depth large underwater mountain chain north of an underwater plain, large riverbeds formed into this underwater plain) All this to me means this region is worth a major scientific study if not for Atlantis than just to learn more about seismology.

Some food for thought. I came across the following excerpt from Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean By David Hatcher Childress.

"One of the unusual facts about the Azores is that they have a strange tree that has survived since prehistoric times. The tree is the criptoméria, a gigantic tree of the Taxodium species. This huge prehistoric remnant is known to exist only in the Azores and in certain remote regions of Japan!

Says Maurice Abreu in his book Sao Migual, Azores, referring to the name which means something like puzzling-tree." Source: Lost Cities of Atlantic, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean

A bit about Taxodium species: "In earth's history Taxodium was widespread. It is known since the Jurassic and can be found as fossil e.g. in layers from Tertiary times." source: en.wikipedia.org...

With regard to the statue of a man on horseback (found in Ilha do Corvo), pointing west ward to the America's, the following excerpt is also interesting:

"Braghine in The Shadow of Atlantis reports that a statue of a man on horseback was also found on the western cost of Corvo. The statue was made of stone and had an undecipherable inscription at the base. Unfortunately, the king of Portugal ordered it removed in the 16th century and it was inadvertently broken by the workers sent to remove it. The statue and inscription are now lost.

Braghine reports that when Portuguese explorers, in search of new lands, reached the Azores and saw the statue, the man on horseback was reportedly pointing westward to the Americas. The inhabitants of Corvo were reported to have called the statue Catés, which has no meaning in either Portuguese or Spanish but curiously resembles the Inco-Quechua word cati which means "go that way" or follow." Source: Lost Cities of Atlantic, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean

And to support the point made earlier about, if the Azores was in fact the lost continent of Atlantis, then why is there no land masses or ruins underwater to support this? "Antillia has if anything an even greater claim to historical existence than Atlantis itself. Yet the island is no longer there." Source: Return to Atlantis

In summary, the ocean is a very mysterious place and there are treasures and clues hidden in it's depths that could perhaps answer many of the questions about human existence. The trouble is that no one has really ventured into the great depths of the Atlantic Ocean. It's very dangerous notwithstanding expensive!

In any case, I'm interested in your views in relation to the content of my post.

Evete

P.S. I am Azorean (Praia da Vitoria, Terceira).