Could you go crazy with the UFO topic?

Originally posted by Devilishkitty


The above could be a good explanation for such topics as fairies, demons, smurfs, bigfoot, and visiting Aliens.

Please reply to my previous post.

Once agian, just like the last thread you made, you touch on the issues that you feel can somewhat be explained, and ignore the others.

You should have learned by now to not make a thread like this unless you are ready to back up your claims, and answer peoples questions.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by noslenwerd]

Originally posted by Devilishkitty

Of two equivalent theories or explanations, all other things being equal, the simpler one is to be preferred.

The above could be a good explanation for such topics as fairies, demons, smurfs, bigfoot, and visiting Aliens.

Don't believe the hype. Truth is boring. Sensational claims ask for sensational evidence, the problem with that evidence is that it is always faked, therefore making the people whom believe in it crazy.

That is why you are bored with the truth. The truth eludes you because you yourself admit that any and all evidence (evidence is proof) is not real, nor neither in part, nor in whole, deserving to belong in your reality. Therefore it is you who can not even experience nor witness truth, because truth is not true as long as:"Evidence is ALWAYS faked".

So then, under your logical deuctive reasoning . . .. ..

What is the purpose and who is benefitting from faking all proof?


If I were to throw you in the ocean for five minutes, and you encounterd no life, you would obviously know there was no life whatsoever in the ocean. This logic and this deductive reasoning is what may be faulty with your programming, and perhaps one day soon you may have to defrag the computer between your ears. It is obvious your brain is telling:" the problem with that evidence is that it is always faked, therefore making the people whom believe in it crazy."

If all evidence is not evidence who is the one ignoring reality and who is the one detaching themselves from it?

And I'm the one who is crazy? We both know that is a little harsh, and we both know it is not what you meant, but simply how you felt in the moment that you were typing it.

Peace

Take a good look at this supposed Alien, this is the closest you will ever get to actually seeing one. Is it real?




This is the evidence that is supposed to make me a sane person? You want me to believe that this prop, is an actual Alien? I think I'll pass.


Here read the story here It might make you a true believer.

Sane people recognize there is more information out there than this one picture you present here. But, if this one bith of information is all that you are willing or capable of considering, then I must conclude I am currently having a conversation with someone who is a tad bit on the close minded side.

No, my judgement of this subject matter comes from the words and the actions and the behaviors of the greatest minds and the most powerful people on the face of this planet. My personal views come from conversations I've had with individuals who have been outside of Earth's atmosphere. My personal views come from the interactions I've had with high ranking officials in our own government. My personal experiences tell me you are .... . ... . . inept, and incapable of seeing any other way than you currently do.

I can live with this. Will you be able to?



Besides, I know it is a fake picture by looking at the copyright superimposed upon it. Real pictures are not copyrighted, nor owned by any individual.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

Its a plastic thing...
The 2 pictures...Has to identical figures..Standing..like a ragdoll

With the same posture.. Dosn't look alive.

Did you make it Devilishkitty?
Oh damn im ignored why do i bother...


[edit on 1-12-2005 by Ram]

Still avoiding my posts...

Very classy Devlish Kitty

I'm not ignoring either of you guys. It is beneficial for us to acknowledge the pre-existing truth that Devilishkity is right, from DK's perspective. There is no substantial proof in any 1 proffession (sp?), nor any one discipline. However when taking in the whole of it, and analyzing all that is known knowing absolutely that there must be truth in all of it, does supply us the tools necessary in obtaining the truth we seek.

How do we then justify that there is intelligent life outside of the confines of this planet, without any tangible proof?

Tangible proof.

Tangible. Interesting word.

Devilishkitty requires tangible evidence that can not be debunked.

OK.

Devilishkitty,
How do you address this paradox?:

Who is the observer

Humanity has dissected and examined the human body from the whole body down to the cells and down to the sub-atomic particles that comprise us. We have looked in every orafice of the body. We have looked at every cortex and every lobe of the human brain. We know what portions of the brain do what. We know what organs and what systems do what. But, we can not take any portion of you and put it in the palm of our hand and say with absolute certainty that:"Here it is, this here is the observer".

So, how can you determine what is real when the self/observer that is determining it to be real, is intangible?

You have accumilated experiences and memories of being an observer, however you can not produce the portion of you that quantifies you as an observer.

So, you can not prove you exist as an observer, if you can not show me who the observer is.

You can not produce any physical evidence that you exist, so Devilishkitty, how then can you demand we prove they exist to you, when you can not prove to us that you exist.

Peace



[edit on 1-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

How do we then justify that there is intelligent life outside of the confines of this planet, without any tangible proof?

How do we discern that there is intelligent life here on Earth for that matter?

Originally posted by kenshiro2012

How do we then justify that there is intelligent life outside of the confines of this planet, without any tangible proof?

How do we discern that there is intelligent life here on Earth for that matter?

By comparing intelligence life to what we accept is intelligent life. And, the only basis for comparison is humanity, in a Godless world, in a lonely existance.

Originally posted by Devilishkitty
This is the evidence that is supposed to make me a sane person? You want me to believe that this prop, is an actual Alien? I think I'll pass.

Devilishkitty, can i have your opinion on this film

open your eyes

All the best... ian

Note: very large wmv file size

[edit on 1-12-2005 by sanctum]

Just playing the devil's advocate here.
How do you measure intelligence in another species from Earth much less than one from another planet?
Do you base it on the weight / complexity of the brain itself when compared to the host? Have fun convincing another species that we need to perform autopsies to determine if they are intelligent LOL
How about if the species has a language?
If we use that measure, what do we consider a language, and how complex does the language have to be? Like that of the be? The dog? The Ape? The Whales/ dolphins?
On that same note, how do we determine what is a language? There are species here on Earth that have rudimentary communications throw body movement, smell, sight, sound, phermones or some other form that we have not yet recognized as such?
Does another species have to have some form of civilization if so at what level? example, here is a definition of civilization

a complex society that has government, social classes and cities.

By using this definition then, bees, wasps, ants are all civilized. There is a form of a goverment in the form of queens, there are various levles of social class, and of course they build thier "cities"
Do we base our intelligence belief that a being is self aware? Again, there are many creatures (many of which are mentioned above) that are aware of themselves
Does the other species have to have some form of technology for us to "determine" that they are intelligent? Then at what level of technology? Fire level, stone level, metal, atomic.....

Sorry, I had to ask

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I'm not ignoring either of you guys. It is beneficial for us to acknowledge the pre-existing truth that Devilishkity is right, from DK's perspective. There is no substantial proof in any 1 proffession (sp?), nor any one discipline. However when taking in the whole of it, and analyzing all that is known knowing absolutely that there must be truth in all of it, does supply us the tools necessary in obtaining the truth we seek.


[edit on 1-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

Oh sorry i wasnt refering to you. I was talking about how Devlish Kitty replies to half of my responses.

Just a reminder, we're discussing UFOs, not each other's posting habits.

Originally posted by iamian

Originally posted by Devilishkitty
This is the evidence that is supposed to make me a sane person? You want me to believe that this prop, is an actual Alien? I think I'll pass.

Devilishkitty, can i have your opinion on this film

open your eyes

All the best... ian

Note: very large wmv file size

[edit on 1-12-2005 by sanctum]

I watched about half of it. I did not know that the 1991 Vegas one was even on film!

If Devilishkitty can prove to me that two of these clips are fake, as well as my memories from the experience of having witnessed them, then by all means Devilishkitty, please justify your position that you are absolutley right and prove to me that 2 of these clips from this movie, and what I witnessed while the clips were being recorded was not what happened. And please, justify how you know you are right, and how I did not witness these things, and how the recordings were falsified.

Prove to me that what I saw and what is on the video is not the same, or prove to me we have the capability and technology to do it.

You have my undivided attention.



Edited to add:
I am well aware a few of these are totally explained through known phenomena. Some of these are clearly us, however some do not conform to any known natural phenomena, nor behave in a manner that parallels the technology we have obtained/achieved to date.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
Just a reminder, we're discussing UFOs, not each other's posting habits.

Sorry Was just trying to get DevlishKitty to reply to my posts, because everytime she is presented with good evidence, she chooses to ignore it. Just trying to add to the thread

Anyways, back on topic, DevlishKitty i'm not trying to convince you that ET UFOs exist, but I really think you should take a look at the sticky in this forum about Roswell. Afterwards I would like to see you debunk some/all the evidence in it.

Believeing in aliens is as much as a religion, as believeing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Religions require faith. When filtering through the vast evidence supporting alien visitation, you are under the assumption that you arent being lied to. Anything less than a close encounter of the 3rd kind places the person recieving, reviewing, that information open to subjective, 2nd hand sources that puts the burden of believabilty on the reciever of said info. Much like religious followers. Thats the wonderful thing isnt it. Whom ever is in charge, my opinion, GOD, didnt make it easy. For that matter, niether have the aliens. Makes you wonder, and give credit to the creater for giving you the choice to believe or not but by no means making it an easyone. But if it were I guess thered be heaven on EARTH!

ps see christianity can make you just as crazy. Ask the people involved in the crusades. but that same thing can make you strong to.

CrossBone's contributions are valid points. Faith is required, faith that there is something to be seen. How can one witness what one can not witness? We only know to look for what we know to exist.


Amorymeltzer the Moderator is fullfilling Amorymeltzer's obligations, and we need to remain non-threatening towards eachother in order to promote a worthwhile dialogue, instead of permitting our emotions to make our conversation excellate into a bad experience for all of us.

Who dares enter
My domain?

I do.

So lets take a little side trip and try to determine what life is, and what is required to permit life, so we may better understand the probability of life elsewhere.

How do you define life?
How do I define life?

I would define life as that which is conscious.

How would you define consciousness?
How would I define consciousness?

I would define consciousness as something that is capable of integrating information about it's environment, and capable of having an effect upon it's environment.

So what is necessary for life to endure?

Water? Sunlight? Warmth?

Let's look at some of the extreme lifeforms on our own planet to see how far out of the norm (as we percieve norm to be) life can exist:

Scientists and researchers have thawed out life from the permafrost (frozen ground) of "Fox Tunnel/Fox Cave" in Alaska. What they found was micro-organisms that were alive 2,000,000 years ago, frozen, then thawed out by us, still alive. So, there is animal lifeforms on our own planet that have been alive for over 2,000,000 years.

Microbial lifeforms have also been found in 216 degree boiling acid thermal springs, alive in acidic water that is boiling.

We have lifeforms at the bottom of the ocean that recieve no light whatsoever from the sun, and are at depths that produce enough pressure to turn us into the size of a coffee can. They are alive and living at depths of 9,000 feet near thermal "Chimneys" or "Smokers" at the bottom of the ocean floor.

We have lifeforms on this planet that were found embedded in hundreds of feet of rock, totally encased and surrounded by stone, and these microbial lifeforms recieve little or no water, and feed off of the rock itself.

All of the above lifeforms mentioned above were not known to man 30 years ago.

Seems like life will find a way, even if we can not comprehend how. Life thrives, life survives, life is life, and we would be assuming far more to assume there is no other life besides us in the universe than we would be assuming if we were assuming there is life besides us.




You are all good people. If anyone tells you any different, they are a better liar than I.