GE Soldiers - The future?

This used to be a thread on the PTS military and security issues forum but it has seemed to have been passed by. I am reposting it hear to see if I can garner more interest.

In the future, do of any you think there will be GM humans used as supersoldiers/super assasins?

What are the ethics of this?

Will it ever happen?

Is it possible?

What modifications will be made?

I personally think they will have gay/transexual genes removed (this is possible), engineered to be around 6 foot to 6 foot 3 with a mesomorph body structure. They also might have chitin around vulnerable body parts, enchanced sense of smell and other animal genes. If anyone has read Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan (the best book in the world, won the Phillip K. Dick award) you will know what I am talking about.

The supersoldiers will have a special pheremone system to communicate silently with each other and with their enhanced senses this could take place over distance.

Of course all genetic diseases or genes that predispose them to certain unpleasant conditions will be removed. Chameleon abilities even the climbing abilities of geckos might be possible. If we can insert human genes into animals why not the other way around?

Such supersoldiers would also need to be raised in the proper environment to predispose them to become killers/soldiers and have the proper diet to encourage optimum condition. I believe the government probably has looked into it but now with the beginning of the genetics revolution it will happen.



What do other people think?

Woah that is really interesting. I doubt that will ever happen, there is just too much opposition against that.

Good thread fatcat. I believe this is not as far away as people think. I don't think that the more far-fetched ideas will happen in our lifetime (e.g. the chameleon skin), but things like increased muscle efficiency, senses and under-skin armour (in the form of changed bone structure) are well within current genetic abilities. The movie "Soldier" starring Kirk Russell explores this idea.

Certain forces already load their soldiers with steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs, so genetic manipulation is a logical (if big) step.

It wil certanly be tried in the future. And they will probably succeed in making such soldiers. But then will the problems begin. When those soldiers can't just be killed when the war ends. You'de have a soldier surplus really. They will have to be fed/taken care off, or you let them integrate your society. Wich will lead to jealousy among the population. Making your former hero's a hated minority group. Do you really want superpowerfull/intensly trained people become angry because they are badly treated among the general population.

Revolution is at hand!

Originally posted by CrazyOrange
It wil certanly be tried in the future. And they will probably succeed in making such soldiers. But then will the problems begin. When those soldiers can't just be killed when the war ends. You'de have a soldier surplus really. They will have to be fed/taken care off, or you let them integrate your society. Wich will lead to jealousy among the population. Making your former hero's a hated minority group. Do you really want superpowerfull/intensly trained people become angry because they are badly treated among the general population.

Revolution is at hand!

nah..they would have a switch to turn them of and put them into storage

good idea though...would the modifications have to be ALL genetic..why not enhance them with electronic modifications..like the borg..but with switches..good post

Cool post. I bet the powers that be would be extremely interesting modifying soldiers eyes to have the long distance sight of a bird of prey, the nightvision of a cat and the thermal imaging capabilities of a snake, and a retractable clear lends like a crocidile

Fighter pilots with cat like reflexs

I bet the Navy would probably be interested the retractable eyelid idea as well webbed hands and feet as well and possibly fish like gills (just like Waterworld if that would even be possible. I don't know if they could GE a human to have gills and breath underwater and conventinal lungs for land?

Originally posted by PaddyInf
Good thread fatcat. I believe this is not as far away as people think. I don't think that the more far-fetched ideas will happen in our lifetime (e.g. the chameleon skin),

Actually chameleon skin is closer then you think, It will probably be in the form of a removable second skin. Check out EInk technology

good idea though...would the modifications have to be ALL genetic..why not enhance them with electronic modifications..like the borg..but with switches

:shudder: Horrible idea, the switch to turn "them" off. They are people to and should be treated as such not some disposable, commodized soldier.... that is one of my worst nightmares actually(a Universal Soldier type that is)

You cannot protect them from persecution nor can you prevent such persecution and retaliations from happening. I would be more worried about modified mafia hitmen ttytt.


[edit on 10-11-2005 by sardion2000]

[edit on 10-11-2005 by sardion2000]

Good posts guys;

Note; these modifications will only be somatic and therefore they won't be communicated to their offspring, before anyone mentions that. Someone also mentioned switching the abilities on and off, well if you use viral gene insertion techniques (cheap and easy to induce changes) to introduce the abilities then you can always insert copies of the normal genes.

These soldiers would probably only used for special missions as you wouldn't want to expose their existence on a mundane exercise.

Imagine if they had the ability to control blood flow! Think of the possibilities.

This is just a short post as I am fairly busy at the present time.

I just hapened to think of another idea to add to the mod list In addition to modified eyes like I mentioned in my last post they could have radar like bats

[edit on 10-11-2005 by warpboost]

Here is a very interesting article on Cochlear implants. Eventually soldiers could have these implanted so they can hear where shots are coming from etc. It's a touching story as well.

www.wired.com...

Nah, I'd rather turn loose terrible armored monsters that only live a few days.

Originally posted by ZPE StarPilot
Nah, I'd rather turn loose terrible armored monsters that only live a few days.

Nice sarcasm almost had me for a sec. Could you imagine if they actually did that though omg...

We have the tech right now to make human animal Chimeras (mixing animal genes) we have already done this. But its not really socialable acceptable today in our society especially when dealing with humans. But goverments do alot of things that aren't socialable acceptable in secret if they have a military value.

The possibilities in theory are near endless when you start mixing and matching the best of all earths animals. Imagine a soldier with a sense of smell like a blood hound or eyes as good as a eagle. Maybe mix in some Scorpion genes since they can withstand 200 times more nuclear radiation than humans. That would be handy for a post nuclear war soldier dont you think.

I doubt we will ever see full armies made like this since it would cost so much money and normal humans are cheap effective and very,very plentiful. Maybe small elite teams for things like tracking or assasins teams.


[edit on 11-11-2005 by ShadowXIX]

In That Same Respect,

We COULD intergrate these Soldiers into normal society, they first would have to be reservists or enlisted men, keep them a short time in a lab and condition them to awaken these killer insticts at certain frequencies or code words.

Their genes will re-act to the frequency as well as the soldier understanding they need to return to their base for duty.

The genes are programmed to be dormant, until exposed to this set of frequencies. Their Soldier's mental faculties which have been pre-programmed with post hypnotic suggestion would kick in at the same time.

Plausible...?

-ADHDsux4me

Plausible...?

Maybe. Ethical hell no, but they will probably try to do such a thing...

I think there's a few misunderstandings here. I also think there is a lack of forethought.

As has already been mentioned, chameleon skin is a bit pointless when you can do the same job better with a chameleon uniform. Chitin isn;t especially good armour. Withstanding 200 times more radiation than human is not something you can achieve by tweaking a few genes. Cat-like reflexes are no match for machines, and no animal can match the capabilty of existing thermal imagers, let alone future systems.

Soldier enhancements that DARPA are looking at are less comic-book and mlre relevant. What they are interested is increased resistance to fatigue, reduced need for sleep, improved tolerance of heat and cold. They're also looking at expanding mental capabilties, and lots of medical stuff.

I don't think GE will make much odds in any of this.

btw, the suggestion of the removal of 'gay genes' has to be one of the most bizarre in this whole thing. Are we more scared of ruthless purpose-built human killing machines or gays??

Originally posted by Wembley
As has already been mentioned, chameleon skin is a bit pointless when you can do the same job better with a chameleon uniform.Chitin isn;t especially good armour.

I agree with this technology has already made far better armour and its working on better optical camo.

Originally posted by Wembley

Withstanding 200 times more radiation than human is not something you can achieve by tweaking a few genes.

I dont remember ever saying tweaking a few genes would make humans withstand as much Rads as a scorpion. But its very possible to up the limit humans can take by finding what genes allow a scorpion to do that. I doubt you would be able to get to insect levels with radical changes. But it wouldnt be impossible to say up the levels a human can take by say 5 times with minor changes.

Originally posted by Wembley

Cat-like reflexes are no match for machines, and no animal can match the capabilty of existing thermal imagers, let alone future systems.

Thats true in theory but hardly in practice. First humans are not fighting robots with exception to machines like the pacbot and human reflexes alone can beat them since its only as fast as its human operator compounded with the time it takes for the machine to relay its information. For a robot to react as fast as it could in theory you have to take the human out of the loop which means it would have to use its own AI brain. Right now robots are dumber then even simple lifeforms like bugs so thats hardly a threat in the near future.

As for thermal cameras can a thermal camera track a target over miles by scent alone? Machines can't even come close to matching senses like smell in dogs and bears. Can that same thermal camera find hidden explosives? A dogs nose can. Thermal cameras are great but they are bulky cost a heck of alot of money and theres alot they cant do.

Originally posted by Wembley
Soldier enhancements that DARPA are looking at are less comic-book and mlre relevant. What they are interested is increased resistance to fatigue, reduced need for sleep, improved tolerance of heat and cold. They're also looking at expanding mental capabilties, and lots of medical stuff.

less comic-book ? Thats a matter of opinion

O yes DARPA is working on Exoskeletons to give humans super human strength and speed. Optical camo that would allow soldiers to blend into the background and full head to toe body armour that is soft but turns hard when it senses a incoming bullet.

That sounds alot like a comic book in my opinion

ShadowXIX made lots of good points about how biological systems are often smaller and quicker in most cases. When I mentioned chitin I didn't mean it as their sole armouring I meant it more in the sense of reinforcing vulnerable joints and body areas.

I must make a point about the removal of gay genes. Wembley said, "btw, the suggestion of the removal of 'gay genes' has to be one of the most bizarre in this whole thing. Are we more scared of ruthless purpose-built human killing machines or gays??"

Well I think it would improve the morale of any such unit if none of the members were gay. Of course you could go to the other extreme like the Greeks and have entire units of them, but this would make them harder to be intergrated into society. I can just imagine the Jerry Springer Show title for this one, "I was a gay supersoldier".

I wonder in a few years if they will able to weave/insert carbon nanotubes into our muscles. This would enhance our strength considerably as when exposed to an electric current these nanotubes flex.

A brave new world?

"Well I think it would improve the morale of any such unit if none of the members were gay."

Why?

You could always GE your supersoldiers to bond to each other like pack animals, whatever their race, creed, colour, gender or sexual orientation.

Or you could just remove the gene for homophobia

Well, it might sound like a good idea, but the disadvantages and utterly evil sides of it outweigh the good points by far. With far I mean like our distance from the sun compared with the center of the galaxy's distance to our sun.

Posible advantages:

1: No civilians need to fill the military ranks except for the leadership.
2: Soldiers can be enhanced with all sorts of specialties and transhuman senses and strength.
3: No more problems with recruitment.
4: Likely less soldiers needed as it would take normal human soldiers to do the same tasks.
5: An advantage for the military, no morals, standards, emotions. Soldiers will follow orders without question. Soldiers that "malfunction" can be destroyed/put out of service/retrained.

Disadvantages/Pure evil sides:

1: Biggest and most important part. Geneticaly engineerd soldiers have no family other then the military, no morals(other then whats thought to them in the military), no emotional development which we get trough our life with our families and friends and so on.

Main reason why this is pure evil and bad is because in contrast with GE soldiers, human soldiers will always have morals learned from their family and social interaction in normal life, have developed emotions trough interaction with family and friends, in general would have a problem being deployed against the people of their own country or a country they feel have done nothing wrong. They'll obey orders as far as they see it to be reasonable and in line with their moral upbringing.

2: As said in 1, GE soldiers will have no morals or social upbringing other then what the military teaches them, this reflected on the battle field. If you think things get bad on the battle field now, with soldiers mutilating and disgracing captives/corpses and enemies. Think what would happen when you have someone with no moral or social upbringing or standards. They'll kill and slaughter citizens, children, wimen, handicaped, dogs, cats, animals, whatever their CO tells them to kill.

Some of you may say the military will give them morals, emotional maturity and decent standards. BULLOCKS I say. Its against the interest of the millitary for a soldier to have any of those. The only thing the Military needs is that soldiers follow orders. Morals, emotions and standards get in the way of that. Biggest part of military training is the brainwashing of soldiers so they would follow orders without hesitation or question.



GE Soldiers are the military's wet dream, but it should never be alowed to happen. Goverments, when given the resources and abilities, will, without hesitation, take full controll over their population.

Freedom of the people is a huge disadvantage and pain in the rear for any and every goverment.

As long as civilians can't be 100% brainwashed and turned into drones for the military, goverments like in the US can't be 100% certain that using the military against their own people will be successfull. There is to much chance that the bulk of these soldiers will take their gear and join their family's and friends in fighting the goverment.

The second GE soldiers are the bulk of the military, the problems of family, friends, morals, standards and sense of freedom are removed from these soldiers minds and they can be used to attack, police and if needed kill the entire population of the country they serve.

The last few years, because of the soldiers being human factor, the goverments have been using tools like propaganda and attacks like 9/11 to sway their populations and with this also the military to do whatever the goverments wanted.