Someone explain the double standard policy to me

In reference to this thread:
Psychedelic swirls and other strange details
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seems like this discussion can't stay away from the "my cool trip on drugs" type posts. Shame really...

Thread Closed

That is a totally false discription of what was happening. However, bringing the truth of that into the open is obviously impossible with such closed minded thinking as this:

This really isn't open for debate. If you want the topic to stay here, all references to drug usage will stop.

Especially when considering it is being said by those who are given Mod status at a Conspiracy Forum in support of Open Debate, Denial of Ignorance, Exposing Hidden Truths and Communication of Alternative Thinking and Ideas.

As a member of ATS I've seen it go through a variety of changes, some good & some bad. I'll state, simply for the sake of it being on record, that is a sad and gross example of bad judgement and censorship being abused.

Questioning the judgement of the ATS authority, by a member who BTW has been a member longer than both Mods and who has presented a strong and supported defense is simply ignored rather than dicussed, let alone proven to be invalid.

Additional evidence why such actions were unjustified and inconsistent can be seen when consideration of these following topics are referenced in comparison:
marijuana
www.abovetopsecret.com...

'___'...CIA...Timothy Leary
www.abovetopsecret.com...

lysergic diethylamide
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Drugs?
politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Girl, 5, makes bong in class
www.belowtopsecret.com...

Marijuana legal in the USA in 2010???
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Smoking Weed
www.abovetopsecret.com...

are hallucinagens a benefit to us?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

...this is only a partial list, but should be more than enough to get my point across.

While I do encourage others to join in this thread and give thier view, I think the most important thing is simply for everyone to simply keep it in mind when considering just how honest and dedicated this board is in it's effort to uphold it's motto.

Oooh Board drama bait.. I'll bite..

I can't really comment about the original thread you posted because most, if not all, of the drug references were removed by a mod. (Hence the little blue text at the bottom of each post).. But even with that text removed, it still boarders on violation of the ToS. I've seen far worse removed/edited/warned.

I really don't see the big problem.. If you want to talk about smoking pot or taking PcP then go do it on another forum. There's no conspiracy in tripping and wigging on drugs.

What do you want, those other threads closed too?

The motto has nothing to do with keeping an open mind about shrooming or dropping. If you want to kill brain cells go for it, but we have kids here.

I'll leave this open as a courtesy if you want to stage a sit in, but no smoking please.

For maximun drama effect, you should have put this post in the Board Questions/Info forum.

But since you decided to stand center stage, I'd brace yourself for a public moderator flaying. These are always fun to watch.

Most people that have a legitiment complaint press that neat little button up top... Gripe/Idea. You'll get alot more accomplished that way. Trust me.

Originally posted by QuietSoul
I really don't see the big problem.. If you want to talk about smoking pot or taking PcP then go do it on another forum. There's no conspiracy in tripping and wigging on drugs.

That wasn't what the conversation was about. In fact, it was stated a couple times that NO Substance at all was being used to experience what was happening.

I'm actually impressed in your ability to totally miss the point of that thread, even with it being edited. That is of course if you even bothered to read any of it anyway before posting your opinion on something you spent no time studying.

Look, some threads slip past us, no doubt.
Sometimes, we allow a thread to slip by us to see if people will have a clinical discussion, but more times than not, it turns into a stoners' conversation.

I thought the rules were clear about this topic?

If you can't do it with a clear mind and have to use a drug crutch, you aren't ready to accomplish anything.

Just say no.

Originally posted by mOjOm
As a member of ATS I've seen it go through a variety of changes, some good & some bad. I'll state, simply for the sake of it being on record, that is a sad and gross example of bad judgement and censorship being abused.

Thank you for your concern and opinion mOjOm, we will be sure to give it all the consideration it deserves.

Originally posted by RANT
The motto has nothing to do with keeping an open mind about shrooming or dropping. If you want to kill brain cells go for it, but we have kids here.
[

I expected more from you RANT.

I atleast thought you'd be able to respond without trying to twist or fabricate what I'm saying into something to do with "Shrooming or dropping".

The public flaying has commenced!

*Gets out the popcorn*

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
If you can't do it with a clear mind and have to use a drug crutch, you aren't ready to accomplish anything.

That was actually the point being made. The one who started the thread did admit to previous use of mind altering substances, it was specifically stated what was being experienced was without any use of anything at all. A result of conscious, meditation-like, sober effort.

He made it clear that his abiolity was from drug usage, Mojom. Even after being told to leave outthe drugs, he refused, and said that the drug reference was necessary.

He refused to knock it off. Threads gone. Case closed.

For any children or not fully matured adults out there, listen up: If you can't do something sober, you can't do it drugged. Unless, that is, you are writing psychodelic music and don't expect to live beyond 27, anyway.

Originally posted by QuietSoul
The public flaying has commenced!

*Gets out the popcorn*

Hey man, the only one not being respectful, or even attempting to address this seriously is you. Why don't you quit trying to add fuel to the fire and go play somewhere else???

mOjOm

Two things I've learned since I've been a member here:

1) You're never going to win this battle.

2) Just let it go brother (or sister).

Peace

I think TC has pretty well covered this already but I'll just post to make it crystal clear so that no one is in any doubt.

The Terms and Conditions of ATS state clearly;

16.) Discussion of illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.

The principle of this rule is well understood. Never the less all staff understand that legitimate debate can and should be had here at ATS.

One thing no one has pointed out is that these threads have been closed and not just trashed.

That is because members are given the opportunity to have a serious debate and they are closed when those threads deteriorate.

Don't blame the mods on this. We bend over backwards to allow these topics to be discussed sensibly. When these topics are posted there is always staff discussion and, where ever possible, we watch and hope that the membership will sieze the opportunity to debate, however, we are always dissappointed by some of the responses which disregard the T&C of the board and these threads invariably are closed.

I can understand that the majority of sensible members here on ATS are just as frustrated as the moderators but thats no reason to turn on us.

Put frankly, we're not the one breaking the T&C and taking threads off topic , we're just the ppl that have to keep things clean and in accordance with the 3 owners' wishes.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by John bull 1]

I appreciate your perspective here, "the member wasn't using a substance" being a reason that the thread should have been left alone.

Reality is different from that statement however. The author repeatedly voiced his drug use in the thread. There are several fora out there available to discuss licit and illicit drug use, ATS is not one of them nor do we want to be.

Using the motto, Deny Ignorance as a basis for allowing the discussion of drug use, the side effects of drug use (with or without the substance actually being used), or anything relative to drug use is invalid IMHO.

The denial of ignorance is NOT an all inclusive invitation to discuss anything that comes to mind in the hopes of replacing ignorance with knowledge of subjects we don't want here. The TOS is in place to serve as a limit to what portions of the denial of ignorance conversation we welcome.

There are several ignorant topics that we avoid completely, drug use is among them.

Springer...

Originally posted by mOjOm
That wasn't what the conversation was about. In fact, it was stated a couple times that NO Substance at all was being used to experience what was happening.

I'm actually impressed in your ability to totally miss the point of that thread, even with it being edited. That is of course if you even bothered to read any of it anyway before posting your opinion on something you spent no time studying.

True, the member did say he wasn't using drugs at the time he experienced whatever. That part was not edited.
BUT, there were several references made about what could have been experienced under the influence. Clearly against T&C!
Those were removed, and of course, without them, it seems I edited innocent ideas. m0j0m, I read that thread and I didn't miss what was being said.

Question:

What about legal drugs which can cause this effects?
Which Nation's laws do we go under?

The website is international and the rule is...dependend in light of which society we live in.

16.) Discussion of illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.

Drug Paraphernalia isn't illegal to own, it is just illegal to use if the substance you are using is a drug in that Nation...

I find it odd that the site 'punishes' [for lack of a better word] members in Nation's where drugs are not illegal because in others they are and when such things are brought into a wider context we are willing to break laws in many other Nation's resulting in freedom of expression, opinion, etc.

Odium, I for one would love to actually see some discussion dealing with the points you bring up as well as others, but I wouldn't hold your breath. The staff here seems to be unforgiving with this topic in certain cases.

Although, once again I find it a little strange that in some cases it seems ok, like in the following examples:

SCI/TECH: Scientists Find What Gives Marijuana Smokers "The Munchies"

NEWS: Denver Voters OK Possession of Marijuana

Peyote study finds No Mental/Behavioral Problems from Long Term Use

Do you Smoke or drink?

The effects of drugs in our society.

Georgia Anti-Drugs Agency Wants To Legalize Marijuana

Cannabis...Sweet Relief ?

Ill admit im usually stoned when im in this state of mind but ive been practicing it completely sober

Im able to see these things when im completely sober

With practice you will be able to do it completely sober.

Im completely sober right now and im seeing it almost as clearly as if I was stoned

but I stated that after practicing enough im able to see it when im completely sober.

I cant fully describe what im talking about without making references to substances. Im not advocating the use of them im just explaining how I got into the state of mind that allowed me to see these things.
.....

its obvious to anyone with eyes that he wasnt promoting drug use, he was using refrences to expierences to describe things, where is promotion of drug use made anywhere in that thread? mojom has a good point...

[edit on 15-11-2005 by namehere]

Originally posted by Odium
Drug Paraphernalia isn't illegal to own, it is just illegal to use if the substance you are using is a drug in that Nation...

This is a privately owned website (you will read this material again) and the Owners don't want this to be full of "hey, check out my bong" type of threads.

Why is this concept so hard to understand?

As for the rest...a collective HUH? Ok, let's look at marijuana. Illegal in most places except what...Amsterdam? Is that the big disconnect? Don't even say Canada (Vancouver specifically) because it IS illegal. It is tolorated by the police because the collectivly decided to deal with bigger crimes, but it is not legal.

mOjOm, are any of those open and did they discuss the topic itself rather than turn into a "let's share" type of threads? That is the question.

Now, personally I don't get why the big freaking drama crap or the "our free speech is trampled" discussion. This is a privately owned website with rules established by the Owners. The staff does it's best to be fair but is there perfection? No.

Still, you want a drug discussion so bad (as it seems)...then break out your High Times magazine and just head over to another forum. Nobody is stopping you.