Islamic Rioting in France

Well said XyZeR. I completly agree.
This is just another anti-muslim and anti-imigration thread.

If that is truly the case, then you can certainly blame the mainstream media for painting this as an "Islamic Uprising" of sorts. From each article that I have read to each piece I view on television, they always lead off with "...[whatever night in a row] of continued rioting in this predominantly muslim suburb of Paris..."

www.foxnews.com...
"...frustrations simmering in housing projects to the north and northeast of Paris, heavily populated by North African and Muslim immigrants and their French-born children who struggle with high unemployment, crime and poverty."

abcnews.go.com...
"...heavily populated by first- and second-generation North African and Muslim immigrants."

www.cnn.com...
"...But the original cause has been all but forgotten as residents of other communities -- weary of poverty, unemployment and discrimination against the large immigrant and Muslim populations -- have vented their frustration."


I think you get my point here.

One thing that I find interesting when dealing with the Muslim religion is that they are never at fault for anything and they never directly condem any of the attacks or wrongs done by members of their religion.

French politicians are facing up to the reality that many of the mainly immigrant populations in cities have long been in a state of chronic tension, says the BBC's European Affairs correspondent William Horsley.

Immigrants and their offspring make up 10% of France's population, but many are without French citizenship and the right to vote. They also suffer the highest rate of unemployment, and their relations with the police are generally difficult or hostile, our correspondent says.

Dalil Boubakeur, the head of the Paris mosque and the president of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, said living conditions for Muslim immigrants in the suburbs were unacceptable.

They "must be given the conditions to live with dignity as human beings", not in "disgraceful squats".

Clichy-sous-Bois: Two teenagers die in electricity sub-station on 27 October. Successive nights of rioting follow rumours they were fleeing by police. A number of people arrested or injured.
Aulnay-sous-Bois: A flashpoint after violence spread from Clichy. Shots fired at police and cars and shops set ablaze. Further trouble in eight nearby suburbs, with more shots fired at police.
Others: Police report incidents involving gangs of youths in town in the suburban departments of the Val-d'Oise, Seine-et-Marne and Yvelines. Reports of petrol bombs thrown at a police station in the Hauts-de-Seine.




[edit on 3-11-2005 by CogitoErgoSum1]

Originally posted by kozmo
If that is truly the case, then you can certainly blame the mainstream media for painting this as an "Islamic Uprising" of sorts. From each article that I have read to each piece I view on television, they always lead off with "...[whatever night in a row] of continued rioting in this predominantly muslim suburb of Paris..."

So, even if the suburbs are predominantly muslim, what should the news report so your happy? Should they hide the fact muslims live there and some might be involved in the rioting? Should they be scared of saying "muslims"?

Originally posted by XyZeR
Funny reactions here....

This is all about Muslims not assimulating into a western society that was kind enough to give them a home. My Grandparents were immigrants and they worked hard and embraced American culture, language and values.......these Muslims immigrants have not done this with French Culture..

They turned their neighborhoods into a copy of the HELLHOLES their parents ran away from!

Its all about Islam!! Look at Ace's thread he posted. Is is a coincidence that Muslims Immigrants are having problems there as well?

Maximu§





[edit on 043030p://444 by LA_Maximus]

I haven't heard anything about the riots in Holland before and nothing has been mentioned in the past few days about the French riots on normal British TV News AFAIK.

This is worrying as these are a damn sight more important news stories than what Prince Charles ate for dinner.

Also, there seem to be a great deal of programmes on television at the moment about Muslims and what they have done for us etcetera.

Almost seems like nothing bad can be said about Muslims on our national TV.

Also, why does it seem from the above posts that Americans hate the French, it seems like yanks like them less than the Brits. BTW I have being growing to sort of like the French of a late.


[edit on 3/11/05 by CarlosG]

Originally posted by andpau66

So, even if the suburbs are predominantly muslim, what should the news report so your happy? Should they hide the fact muslims live there and some might be involved in the rioting? Should they be scared of saying "muslims"?

The riots in Birmingham (UK) the other week are a prime example of this PC world that we live in at the moment -- they didn't mention the words Black or Asian/Muslim in any news report in the first 12hrs. Why, might they offend someone?

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
This is all about Muslims not assimulating into a western society that was kind enough to give them a home.

You seem like the type to know your history. Watts in the sixties was all about assimilation, right? LA in '92? Culture doesn't have nearly as much to do with things as social issues.

They turned their neighborhoods into a copy of the HELLHOLES their parents ran away from!

No, look at the reports. The areas were already not great, and the closures of several factories created something along the lines of 40% unemployment. Compton? Crenshaw?

Its all about Islam!! Look at Ace's thread he posted. Is is a coincidence that Muslims Immigrants are having problems there as well?

As much as you would like it to be about Islam, it's not. It's about people not wanting to live in urban free-fire zones, and not have to sell crack to survive. Same as the sixties in America- you ahve a very poor group of visible immigrants living in ghettos, with the impression of police brutality (whether or not it's true, I'm not sure). Same thing is gonna happen there that happened in America.

DE

Yet forty-five years have passes since the Watts riots and yet the social situation is still the same. What gives people a legitimet reason to tourch 122 cars, beat people up and burn buildings? Just because you were born in the ghetto doesnt mean you have to act or live a certain way. The choice may be harder for you, but it still exist.

Originally posted by CogitoErgoSum1
Yet forty-five years have passes since the Watts riots and yet the social situation is still the same. What gives people a legitimet reason to tourch 122 cars, beat people up and burn buildings? Just because you were born in the ghetto doesnt mean you have to act or live a certain way. The choice may be harder for you, but it still exist.

It doesn't give them a justification, but then again, it shouldn't surprise you that this happened.

DE

DE, Ill grant you that we have idiots here as well who will riot at the drop of a hat, but I think we can agree the Muslims have not assimulated into French society very well.

Did They expect a new 4 bedroom furnished apartment at government expense? Perhaps a new car to go with it? Those things take hard work and disipline.

Is it the governments responsibility to reach out to immigrants?? No thats not the governments job, its up to the immigrant to make himself marketable. The government already met them 1/2-way by letting them or their parents into the country....its up to them to carry themselves to the finish line.

Muslim immigrants need to accept responsibility for their own actions, piss-poor economic status AND for the condition of their neighborhoods. I think the same for poor rundown neighborhoods here in America.

If you don't like it, get some good men together, run the gangs out and make it a place where kids can play and businesses can flourish.


Maximu§






[edit on 033030p://444 by LA_Maximus]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
DE, Ill grant you that we have idiots here as well who will riot at the drop of a hat, but I think we can agree the Muslims have not assimulated into French society very well.

I'll give you that, but I'm not going to say that assimilation is easy, especially in the face of racism. Blacks didn't assimilate very well either.

Did They expect a new 4 bedroom furnished apartment at government expense? Perhaps a new car to go with it? Those things take hard work and disipline.

Maybe they expected a job and a neighborhood that wasn't overrun with crime. Maybe they didn't expect racism. The articles I read showed that there was somethign like 40% unemployment in these areas. not even Compton is that bad.

Is it the governments responsibility to reach out to immigrants?? No thats not the governments job, its up to the immigrant to make himself marketable. The government already met them 1/2-way by letting them or their parents into the country....its up to them to carry themselves to the finish line.

Stopping racism is part of the government's job, neh? That why they ammended the constitution so blacks could vote, right?

Muslim immigrants need to accept responsibility for their own actions, piss-poor economic status AND for the condition of their neighborhoods. I think the same for poor rundown neighborhoods here in America.

Here's where we start to disagree. Immigrating to a country, you're nto goign to have tons of money to spend movign into a middle-class burb or anythign. You move where rent is cheap...which is the ghetto. You get there, then you realize there's no jobs. This isn't their fault. They can't move again, they don't have the money. I'll bet most people wouldn't live in Scarborough if they had the opportunity to go elsewhere, but they don't. They can't get a job, they can't support themselves, they get delinquent.

If you don't like it, get some good men together, run the gangs out and make it a place where kids can play and businesses can flourish.

If it was that simple, they woulda done it already.

DE

To be honest my reaction is that to be making a great big deal out of (what is supposed to be) the religion of those rioters is about as relevant as making a great big deal out of the religion of our football holigans when they 'riot'.

The idea of which would strike most people as ridiculous, but sadly not here with this.

It's just a way of dressing up a racist angle on this as far as I can see.

Originally posted by XyZeR
What does this riot have to do with Islam ? I really don't see the connection. Could someone explain this to me ?

The rioters are largely muslim immigrants and offspring of immigrants, and while the spark for the riot was the death of these two muslim kids, the underlying tension is all stemming from things strongly connection to them being islamic and integration and assimiliation issues.

To be honest my reaction is that to be making a great big deal out of (what is supposed to be) the religion of those rioters is about as relevant as making a great big deal out of the religion of our football holigans when they 'riot'.

THe religion is 'irrelevant' with regards to the specifics. However, since the religion is, as a whole, part of why they have trouble integrating and 'gaulising', so insofar as that is related to why they are rioting, its definilty relevant.


[edit on 3-11-2005 by Nygdan]

Ahhh...DE racism, racism, racism seems to be the highlight of your post.

Lets be frank here, Muslim societies are the most intolerant and raciest on earth. I think, based on atrocities against minorities in Indonesia, Egypt, Sudan etc etc...we can agree on that.

Western societies have made real progress towards reducing this and the Muslim immigrants long list of problems can't all be because of a "raciest" society that refuses to give them jobs.

To get a job, you need to make yourself "marketable" and Im afraid these people have not been taught to do this.....its so much easier to blame outsiders for all your problems.

Maximu§



[edit on 043030p://444 by LA_Maximus]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Ahhh...DE racism, racism, racism seems to be the highlight of your post.

Lets be frank here, Muslim societies are the most intolerant and raciest on earth. I think, based on atrocities against minorities in Indonesia, Egypt, Sudan etc etc...we can agree on that.

Yes we can. But just because the places they came from are screwed up, doesn't mean treating them bad is okay.

Western societies have made real progress towards reducing this and the Muslim immigrants long list of problems can't all be because of a "raciest" society that refuses to give them jobs.

Nope, but two of the biggest- police brutality and rampant poverty- are up there.

To get a job, you need to make yourself "marketable" and Im afraid these people have not been taught to do this.....its so much easier to blame outsiders for all your problems.

Now, if it were that easy...okay, let me give you an example. I took a taxi downtown awhile back. I was talking to the cabbie, and it turns out he was a PhD in biology and trained physician from Calcutta. He couldn't get a job in Canada because they wouldn't recognize his credentials. See what I'm getting at? It's not all the immigrant's fault, either.

"Hello, I'm applying for this marketting job."

"Says here you live in the center of Watts."

"Yeah, so?"

"NEXT!"

DE

I have no data to back this it up, but it seems to me like most of these rioters are 2nd and 3rd generation sons of immigrants. Their fathers finally made it to France and worked hard, but their sons turned out rotton.

Happens alot here in Los Angeles, an immigrant father sneaks across the border...works his fingers to the bone, but the son ends up in baggy pants with gang tatoos all over him.

Maximu§

[edit on 063030p://444 by LA_Maximus]

so far its spread to 20 towns as the news articles says. wonder if the rioting would die itself out or spread like a wildfire. will see how France can contain it without the use of violence against the rioters. the peaceful way.

Originally posted by deltaboy
will see how France can contain it without the use of violence against the rioters.

the peaceful way.

- Obviously you don't know much about much of continental Europe's 'civil disturbance' policing.

People who make the mistake thinking that they are a soft push-over usually do so only the once.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by deltaboy
will see how France can contain it without the use of violence against the rioters.

the peaceful way.

- Obviously you don't know much about much of continental Europe's 'civil disturbance' policing.

People who make the mistake thinking that they are a soft push-over usually do so only the once.

obviously u cant take my joke. Europe's civil disturbance policing is pretty much just like America's as well as many countries but there are countries dat pretty much just go and shoot the protestors or rioters.