Breakthrough in power storage allows a year's driving without recharging

Whereas, for instance, conventional electrical power stations have weak energetical efficiencies of under 40%. With heat pumps, it has been possible since the 1980s to obtain efficiencies of nearly 2.

You forgot to post a link with your paste.

I would love to see verification of this.

200% efficiency would be worthy of a Nobel prize.

The Laws of Physics would have to be re-written, and any physicist worth his salt would be working on explaining it so that the compact free energy machine can be built.

The problem is no one has ever demonstrated overunity.

[edit on 31-10-2005 by ArchAngel]

Cool, all we need to do now is take the output from this, use it to power the magnetron as posted here, then take that output and the world is a happy place never having to burn a fossile fuel again. Wayhay!!

Threads like this should be closed as soon as they appear imo!

Originally posted by ArchAngel

You forgot to post a link with your paste.

www.datadiwan.de...

I know it's already been said above, but I figured I'd throw in my 2cents since ArchAngel doesn't seem to have much help here.

This is complete and total bunk. This is the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine which does not and cannot exist according to the most basic laws of physics and thermodynamics. Even if this system had 100% efficiency (which is impossible), it would still not be possible due to friction between the moving car and air, electrical resistance in the wiring, weight of the vehicle, and I'm sure a few dozen other things I'm not even considering.

Erm, even if you have a ZPE device, its still not over 100% efficient.
Thats the big misconception about free energy. People acting all knowledgeable say it can't happen because of the Laws of Thermo Dynamics, yet the laws are perfectly obeyed.

What your doing is tapping into the energy thats floating around all over the place an sapping from that. That energy was created and is present and gets recycled constantly by the universe.

You can get more energy out of a device then you put human made energy into it, if your device is able to tap from the energy thats everywhere.

Problem is, gravity, magnetic fields of celestrial bodies, galactic radiation, zero-point energy and all that exist, but noone has yet found a way to tap it in amounts that could be of any use.

Perpetual motion and free energy are possible. They DO obey the laws of thermo dynamics. When they don't, then you can call them hoax.

Thing is, this concept isn't a perpetual motion type invention. It just seems to be extremely efficient, recycling as much of the energy that would normaly be wasted back into the battery's.

Actually, Tom Bearden has been developing a ZPE device he calls the MEG (Montionless Electromagnetic Generator). He has demonstrated a significant useable power from his device... and instead of the wires getting hotter with increased load, they have actually frozen over. As far as I know, he is the only one that has shown any kind of device like this to actually work, though... there is another guy I read about that developed some kind of plasma electric motor/generator that works somewhat similar to a pulse motor.

Electric motors are so inefficient... I'm not sure right now without looking into it again... I may be talking about a pulse motor here, but people have taken electric motors and use a switching circuit to reclaim some of the energy that is wasted while the coils are switching on and off... basically when the coil would normally be switched off, it is turned back on and feeds a different circuit that is used to generate power back to a battery, thus increasing the overall efficiency of the system... I believe this is what this guy is doing, just using normally wasted energy and putting it back into the storage (batteries), thus simply increasing the longevity of the batteries, not creating any supposed "free energy" or "overunity" device. If it was overunity, it would NEVER need to be recharged. Again, it sounds to me that this guy simply increased the efficiency of the system.

BTW, braking on electric cars is not mechanical in the same way that we are used to... they use electric motors to stop the car, and generate power at the same time, which is sent back into the storage unit (batteries). No need for a vaccuum assist for a hydraulic system... even if you DO use a hydraulic system, in conjunction with a generator assisted braking system, you don't need nearly the same amount of clamping force on the rotors, so you would not need any sort of assist. Alot of older cars (50/60's and earlier) don't use any kind of assistance on braking... they are manual brakes... and they do just fine stopping vehicles that are quite heavy. That is partly because of the way drum brakes work... the trailing shoe is forced by the rotating drum to perform the "clamping" pressure, basically wedging the shoe into the drum surface. The big drawback with drum brakes is actually that they are heavier, and drag all the time, decreasing rotational efficiency.

Originally posted by thematrix
Erm, even if you have a ZPE device, its still not over 100% efficient.
Thats the big misconception about free energy. People acting all knowledgeable say it can't happen because of the Laws of Thermo Dynamics, yet the laws are perfectly obeyed.

What your doing is tapping into the energy thats floating around all over the place an sapping from that. That energy was created and is present and gets recycled constantly by the universe.

You can get more energy out of a device then you put human made energy into it, if your device is able to tap from the energy thats everywhere.

Problem is, gravity, magnetic fields of celestrial bodies, galactic radiation, zero-point energy and all that exist, but noone has yet found a way to tap it in amounts that could be of any use.

Perpetual motion and free energy are possible. They DO obey the laws of thermo dynamics. When they don't, then you can call them hoax.

Thing is, this concept isn't a perpetual motion type invention. It just seems to be extremely efficient, recycling as much of the energy that would normaly be wasted back into the battery's.

Call me foolish for dismissing ideas like this, but until I see something researched and published by a reputable institution, I will have to dismiss claims that people are 'tapping' into ZPE or equivalent.

If the claim was that by harnessing a flywheel, and recovering braking energy, they managed so say 'double' the overall efficiency of a vehicle, I would be interested - however claiming that a car run on a few batteries for over a year, well you dont need a degree to work out that is just a little dappy.

If the car cannot run for a year with just batteries (lets presume that it drove 10000 miles continuous without braking - they would have to be pretty astounding batteries to contain that power - and would be damn expensive to charge), and since adding additional components (flywheel, generator etc) introduces futher inefficencies, then the car is going to be even more inefficent.

I just am skeptical that something that will completely change everything in human society beyond all recognition (if it works for vehicles it can work for power stations) and solves the majority of the problems related to environment pollution and world poverty is going to be announced in this manner.

Maybe I will be proven wrong.

Actually, Tom Bearden has been developing a ZPE device he calls the MEG (Montionless Electromagnetic Generator). He has demonstrated a significant useable power from his device...

Bearden has not ever demonstrated his MEG with a power meter hooked to the input, and output, at least not publicly.

If it really worked he would show the described experiment to scientists that could confirm his supposed findings.

Then he could get a Nobel Prize, and all the media attention instead of being an old man milking hopeful people with his books.

Hutchison managed to show the zpe energy very simple.
He had a piece of naturally formed rock with crystals on it, this rock was 'tapping' energy from the surrounding air as he showed on the meter simply by holding the 2 poles on the rock, granted he had to look for a good spot and this was a very inefficient way, it was proof nonetheless. The rock wasn't a battery, you could leave that meter connected for 10 years and it would still show the same values.

He then showed these 'crystalline converters' I guess you call them. Wich had the same or similar material as the rock or atleast the bits that act as an antenna for zpe. This converter/generator then powered a small motor from those fans that fit in a hat.

Originally posted by Shroomery
Hutchison managed to show the zpe energy very simple.
He had a piece of naturally formed rock with crystals on it, this rock was 'tapping' energy from the surrounding air as he showed on the meter simply by holding the 2 poles on the rock, granted he had to look for a good spot and this was a very inefficient way, it was proof nonetheless. The rock wasn't a battery, you could leave that meter connected for 10 years and it would still show the same values.

He then showed these 'crystalline converters' I guess you call them. Wich had the same or similar material as the rock or atleast the bits that act as an antenna for zpe. This converter/generator then powered a small motor from those fans that fit in a hat.

You really should provide a link when making such claims.

Hutchinson said years ago that he was working with a manufacturer to produce these batteries, but I have not heard anything new on this since.

If it worked as claimed he would show it to reputable scientists where a conclusive test could easily be performed.

After that he could walk across the stage and pick up his Nobel Prize.

The simple fact that he refuses to allow controled experimentation shows him to be a hoaxer.

Any normal person would run around screaming 'OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!', and immediately seek professional confirmation.

Any free energy machine is the Holy Grail of science.

There have been countless hoaxes, but never one single reproducable experiment.

I have to call BS on this unless there is a better explanation, a more reputable source or a public demonstration.

With near perfect efficiency I suppose you could use batteries that were charged initially from an external source to power an electric motor and an alternator to recharge the batteries somewhat. The problem is I don't think there hardware efficient enough for it to work for that long without needing a recharge but maybe I'm wrong.

As far as the air turbine idea and the comment about how that won't work, and if it did it would be on every car. Well turbochargers work great and they aren't on every car. HID headlights are much better than conventional halogen ones, yet not that many cars have them.

I know they have hybrid vehicles that work somewhat like what I am about to suggest but can someone tell me if this would work or not? Have a hydrogen engine drive an alternator that powers an electric motor. The electric motor is what would power the car with the hydrogen engine providing the power. The byproduct of a hydrogen engine is water which could be used in a fuel cell to make more electricity and more hydrogen. I would have the alternator hooked up to one of the axels so that during braking, travailing downhill etc.. it could also generate some electricity. Now I know you would have to add water to the setup and it wouldn’t be free energy, but could it work?

My other idea is to perfect laser fusion to the point where it can generate more power than it consumes and then we could have nuclear powered electric cars with no radioactive material on board just a powerful laser

Originally posted by warpboost
I have to call BS on this unless there is a better explanation, a more reputable source or a public demonstration.

With near perfect efficiency I suppose you could use batteries that were charged initially from an external source to power an electric motor and an alternator to recharge the batteries somewhat. The problem is I don't think there hardware efficient enough for it to work for that long without needing a recharge but maybe I'm wrong.

The point you are missing is that it requires energy to move anything in gravity. Even with 100% efficiency energy will be depleted from the system.

As far as the air turbine idea and the comment about how that won't work, and if it did it would be on every car. Well turbochargers work great and they aren't on every car. HID headlights are much better than conventional halogen ones, yet not that many cars have them.

The reason it won't work is because the electrical energy you gain from the turbine generator comes at the expense of grearter fuel consumption do to increased wind resistance.

You cannot get more energy out than you put in.

I know they have hybrid vehicles that work somewhat like what I am about to suggest but can someone tell me if this would work or not? Have a hydrogen engine drive an alternator that powers an electric motor. The electric motor is what would power the car with the hydrogen engine providing the power.

This part would work just fine.

The byproduct of a hydrogen engine is water which could be used in a fuel cell to make more electricity and more hydrogen.

This is the hole in your theory.

A fuel cell uses hydrogen to make electricity while releasing water, and in reverse uses water and electricity to make hydrogen.

I would have the alternator hooked up to one of the axels so that during braking, travailing downhill etc.. it could also generate some electricity.

This is called regenerative braking, and it is included in the systems of most eletric and hybrid designs.

Now I know you would have to add water to the setup and it wouldn’t be free energy, but could it work?

What you described is a single fuel electric-combustion hybrid, but you will have to add either electric power, or hydrogen as fuel.

My other idea is to perfect laser fusion to the point where it can generate more power than it consumes and then we could have nuclear powered electric cars with no radioactive material on board just a powerful laser

The other problem is where do you get all of the deuterium?

It is expensive with the little used in the nuclear industry so it would be far too expensive if consumption increased greatly.



Personally I believe solar-electric-hydrogen system is the only real answer for the future, but hydrogen is not the energy source, rather it would simply be the energy medium where you could not plug in a cord.

[edit on 2-11-2005 by ArchAngel]

the government should have to pay ppl who want to invent(anyone)but once a week they have to go and write an exam on what they have to know for the most complicated things. and to make sure nonone is jst making free money. that is how we are going to invent it new things. if some ppl out there had more money, more different ppl would have to money to perform experiments by them selves that may be totally original. in a big coorperation im sure theres shy scientists out there that are too afraid to share there ideas incase of loss of jobs or somthing.

[edit on 2-11-2005 by BirDMan_X]

It took a few reads but I think I get what you are saying.

So inventors should be payed to invent. They should take regular assesments to show that they are actually doing things, not just claiming the 'inventors grant'.

If people did receive this 'inventors grant', then there is a good chance that something original will arrive from it.

There is a suggestion that current corporate scientists may have discovered things, or have ideas, but do not want to share them for fear of being ridiculed. With the "inventors grant" they could follow up there discoveries themselves.

(Sorry to patronise but you made some good points, I just wanted to write them up clearer for others.) Mods I have no idea if this seems rude, it isn't meant to be, so please delete or whatever if it is.

Anyhow, conjecture.

I think the system would be abused, people would start making up all sorts of weird stuff, and get paid to pursue it. There are very likely people with ideas out there whos inventions could revolutionise the world for others, but I dont think we should start throwing money around willy nilly I disagree with.

Perhaps an idea would be to have a goverment review panel, to look at the idea and to decide on merit whether it is worth pursuing.

Who however would be the owner of any patent, a good incentive to actually get only legitmate passionate inventors on the scheme would be to say that anything produced from the grants is public domain property, since the public essentially funded the research??

I like this thought, it should be in its own thread though as there could be quite a bit of discussion about it.....perhaps you should start a new topic BirDMan_X?



[edit on 2/11/05 by Strodyn]

I hate to rain on the inventor's parade, but all the physics books would have to be rewritten if his patented invention actually worked because he would be directly violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics. That law basically says there isn't any such thing as a free lunch. In this case it means there isn't any such thing as a perpetual motion machine or a battery that is being used to perform work without discharging in the process. Has never happened yet and it ain't gonna happen either.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
I hate to rain on the inventor's parade, but all the physics books would have to be rewritten if his patented invention actually worked because he would be directly violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics. That law basically says there isn't any such thing as a free lunch. In this case it means there isn't any such thing as a perpetual motion machine or a battery that is being used to perform work without discharging in the process. Has never happened yet and it ain't gonna happen either.

I think this has been mentioned

How does this violate any laws of Physics?

All the Article is saying is that by using an a flywheel to run an alternator you can charge some of the batteries while using the others , then charge those while using the freshly charged batteries and existing technology like regenerative braking helps you conserve enough energy so that you only need to charge the batteries from an external source once a year or so instead of everyday or two.

Nothing breaks the laws of physics here.

This is not overunity or free energy.

Originally posted by lost_shaman
How does this violate any laws of Physics?

All the Article is saying is that by using an a flywheel to run an alternator you can charge some of the batteries while using the others , then charge those while using the freshly charged batteries and existing technology like regenerative braking helps you conserve enough energy so that you only need to charge the batteries from an external source once a year or so instead of everyday or two.

Nothing breaks the laws of physics here.

This is not overunity or free energy.

The problem with it is that simply moving the vehicle, friction, rolling resistance, electrical resistance, and EMF losses are the large part of energy consumed in any electric vehicle.

There is not enough energy in any set of batteries you could use to run a car for weeks, let alone years.

The fundamental losses that can't be avoided take too much energy for the supposed invention to work.

Also, go back and read the article again, and ask yourself why an electric car would need a starter.

I suspect what is being described is a hybrid, but it was not made clear through the poor translation.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

You really should provide a link when making such claims.

Hutchinson said years ago that he was working with a manufacturer to produce these batteries, but I have not heard anything new on this since.

If it worked as claimed he would show it to reputable scientists where a conclusive test could easily be performed.

After that he could walk across the stage and pick up his Nobel Prize.

The simple fact that he refuses to allow controled experimentation shows him to be a hoaxer.

Any normal person would run around screaming 'OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!', and immediately seek professional confirmation.

Any free energy machine is the Holy Grail of science.

There have been countless hoaxes, but never one single reproducable experiment.

Claims? Do you think I'd just make that stuff up so I can proof a point? Get real.
I don't have it from a website though, I saw a documentary where he showed this. (Free Energy - The race to zero point). Available on your favourite torrent site. I wish I could cut some of the important pieces out of it but my virtualdub fails me. It's a 1h50m docu and well worth the watch for anyone interested in this.

And ArchAngel, sorry but I think you're a bit naieve if you believe that everyone is waiting for a free energy device. Don't forget who'll loose money and power over it.
Free energy devices are not based around perpetual motion or creating something for nothing. The energy IS coming from somewhere. So when you say perpetual motion or overunity is impossible simply because gravity exist is a bit shortsighted. Even if this was a problem, it would only be a problem for those devices with gain so low that it can't produce the energy to overcome it.

And ArchAngel, sorry but I think you're a bit naieve if you believe that everyone is waiting for a free energy device. Don't forget who'll loose money and power over it.

Naive?

BSEE University of Miami.

I have read of countless supposed free energy, or Zero Point energy devices, and systems, but I have never seen a self running machine, or one tested with power meters.

If it works there is always a simple way to test it, yet they all shy away.

I want to believe, but everything that ever claimed to be overunity, or extracting energy from the zero point has failed to provide any proof.

The closest thing to proof that I have seen is the MEG reproduction by JLN Labs, but his findings were incoclusive because of the risk of power measurement error with non pure sinusoidal waves.

Free energy devices are not based around perpetual motion or creating something for nothing. The energy IS coming from somewhere. So when you say perpetual motion or overunity is impossible simply because gravity exist is a bit shortsighted. Even if this was a problem, it would only be a problem for those devices with gain so low that it can't produce the energy to overcome it.

There are countless misconceptions about what ZPE is, and if it can be extracted.

It would be nice if if we could just suck energy out of empty space, but I don't think the garage tinkerers who make claims without providing a working example to examine are going to be the ones to produce it.