as-assalamu 'alaykum

I am a Muslim, born and raised in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. I am 27 years of age, I have a wife and two young boys. My mother is Egyptian (born in Alexandria, Egypt), and my father is Arab (born in Jeddah).

Even though I have never been to America, I find Americans gullible and passive in relation to their governmental powers. Islaam has been around for over 1,400 years, yet Americans tend to think we as Muslims/Muslimahs have been only around since the 1993 and 2001 WTC ordeals. I truly feel we as Muslims/Muslimahs have been slandered by the United States government, especially the CIA. My good brother Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden was a CIA agent, and I believe there are powers that be that operate behind all the mishaps around the world in the name of Allaah or Islaam. What I mean is, our faith is being used as a front for the powers that be to work behind the scenes, manipulating the general public via controlled media, as if they were puppeteers. Islaam is being used to bring in a new world order, ousting the former powers that be (traditional values, that is, Islaamic society - the last to fall).

But we as Muslims/Muslimahs continue to fight the powers that be, for survival as a culture or a tradition. We are made to appear that we are not up to the times, yet if anyone visited Saudi Arabia, you will find we are quite developed, technologically, economically and educationally. Though our tradition, in regards to society and family are traditional, holding onto the old ways, via the qur'aan and sunnah, we do not live in caves, ride camels and tell time by reading the sun and the moon.

What I am saying is, there is a clash between old (traditional) and new (globalization), and the powers that be, US government (CIA) and other governments like this, are attempting to have the old and new clash, until one wins out. I say, why can't we all have the life we are used to, without any type of infringement?

Islaam is all about jihaad, but not the type of jihaad American media portray us as (actually, I commit jihaad in everything I do in life, be it eating, sleeping, praying, working, social life, etc - jihaad simply means, striving hard in Allaah's cause (jihaad fi Sabeel Allaah). American media propaganda makes it appear we are nothing more than terrorists; and all we are asking is, to be left alone in peace, to be left to our tradition. If anyone hears there is a holy war, what it really means is, we are striving hard for Allaah's cause, to live our deen (way of life) without interference from westerners and/or zionists. Is this too much to ask, I do not think so.

I hope my time here at above top secret will serve your cause well, and, insha'Allaah, mine as well.

My name is Muhammad (I prefer not to say my last name), you may call me this if you like.

Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala)

[edit on 26-10-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

[edit on 26-10-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

Welcome to ATS Muhammad.

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Greetings Monkeys, not just for saying "Hi" anymore...

Welcome al tawbah 9 123! I look forward to your posts. Enjoy the site!

Greetings, Muhammad
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Welcome to ATS

Hello Muhammad,

Welcome to ATS. I would agree there is a high level and low level deception filtering through out all ends of this earth. Religion and Politics are the catalyst of the movment fueled by any one desire of sin. With that being siad I hope you enjoy your stay and I look forword to reading your posts.

GSM

as-assalamu 'alaykum

Welcome to ATS. Peace to you too!

Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
My good brother Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden was a CIA agent,

er, Intersting.

I believe there are powers that be that operate behind all the mishaps around the world in the name of Allaah or Islaam.

The Illuminati or the Isamlii, which do you prefer as the agents of evil?

What I am saying is, there is a clash between old (traditional) and new (globalization), and the powers that be, US government (CIA)

THe US government is a little bit more than just the CIA, which is just an intelligence agency within the government.

I say, why can't we all have the life we are used to, without any type of infringement?

Because non-infringement is immpossible. You noted it yourself, muslims were readily able to adapt to and adopt western things, modern things. Thats an infringment, they're innovations according to some, and therefor agents of evil. This means that there will allways be westernizing/modernizing/globalizing forces at work in 'traditional' places like the islamic world, and thus allways strife, so long as its resisted anyway.

Islaam is all about jihaad, but not the type of jihaad American media portray us as

The media, especially american media, is constantly talking about how jihand merely means a sancitifed struggle, often within one's self, to stay on a virtuous path. But what american media, or, honestly, you, think jihad means isn't important, guys like bin ladin aren't talking about a sacred personal struggle when they use it, they're talking about pysical war.

all we are asking is, to be left alone in peace, to be left to our tradition.

But you have adopted things that are not part of your tradition. No one forced anyone to build modern buildings or purchase televisions and cell phones.

Is this too much to ask, I do not think so.

But you are using the internet.

My name is Muhammad

Tawbah means returning or turning away from sin no? Whats the 9 123 bit about?

I'll take each point you have raised, and I'll attempt to deal with each one (for you have raised some interesting points which need to be explained from a Muslim point of view, if I may.

The reason behind my saying Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is a good brother is because he has attempted to expel sheetaan (Satan) from our countries here. When I say this, I mean, in Islaam we do not care for the vices western society believe to be part of freedom. Drugs, alcohol, music which does not revere Allaah, sex, even certain sites on the web are banned (I was surprised that this site was not banned - maybe the Council has yet to find this one out, I do not know). What my good brother has attempted to do was (and is) drive out sheetaan or the vices from our way of life. This is what I mean by my brother being good. I hope you can understand.

I have read something online on the new world order, by Jim Marrs (Rule By Secrecy), and if you mean the Illuminati in this way, then yes, I believe the Illuminati is running the show from behind. There are very powerful families, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Bronfmans that manage globalization via the World Bank (UN).

Let me explain something if I may, I am not very pleased that my own government speaks with President Bush. To me, this is rea' (minor shirk, or something not permitted by Shari'ah law but still forgivable by Allaah, insha'Allaah). To me, Bush serves sheetaan, and being this is so, my own Prince (Abdullah) must be cautious of.

astaghfi-rullaah (I seek forgiveness from Allaah)

As for the CIA, I believe as do many others here, that the CIA runs the show from behind with the Mossad. In fact, the CIA and Mossad allowed for the 9-11 to occur. So they could blame it on us, and in turn, take over Afghanistan and Iraq, and in time, Syria and Iran. I hope you do understand the reason behind this, in order to take Iran and Syria, two countries that will not fall so easily, they went after Afghanistan and Iraq, which were easier to take down. Understand what I am saying? There may be other secret intelligence agencies in the US government, but the CIA or Pentagon are the supreme servants of sheetaan.

As for our tradition, insha'Allaah, we strive every day to do Allaah's will. We place family and nation after Allaah. I am a slave to Allaah. To westerners, this may sound strange. But to those in Islaam, I am very happy and content with serving only Allaah's will. Also, as to your point, our technology is up to date, we are better educated than most other countries, even though we do have poor people here, we still give zakat (charity) every year to help others in need. But you must try to understand, throughout the qur'aan, Allaah spoke of limits on everything. I may use internet technology, but I must not abuse it, that is, visit areas on the net that will demean Allaah. We have limits on everything we do, everything is in moderation, understand?

As for your point on jihaad (proper way to say it is, jihaad fi Sabeel Allaah or striving hard in Allaah's cause). There is also the fiqh (Islaamic law) which is part of jihaad, and that is, qitaal fi Sabeel Allaah (fighting for Allaah's cause). This is what my akhi (brother) Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is doing. Under qitaal fi Sabeel Allaah, there is a fardh'ayn (personal obligation) and a fardh kifaayah (collective obligation). As a Muslim, I must abide by (and I also want to) any fatwa (legal ruling) that is issued by any Imaam (scholar) or Hafidh (very high ranking scholar) (by the way, I hope you do not mind my putting in text Arabic too, I find Arabic much easier to lay out the way I believe than English, even though my father made sure I learned English at an early age for he said, I may need it if I ever leave the country - about a third of us here speak and write English, some better than others, I consider myself pretty good at it). Anyway, back to my akhi, each obligation, under Islaamic law, makes us (and we also prefer it) heed to any and all fatwa(s) (because who am I to doubt it, I am not a scholar) issued by an Imaam. akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden and Mullah Omar gave fatwa(s) along with other leaders, to fight (spiritually and physically) anyone who attempts to oppress our homeland. Which brings me to your final point, al tawbah (properly, at tawba), there is an ayat (verse) in the qur'aan which reads: Fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allaah (Al-Baqarah 2:193). Our qur'aan directs us to commit qitaal fi Sabeel Allaah (fighting for Allaah's cause) whenever there is injustice or oppression. We feel that the western powers are oppressing us so we dutifully follow any fatwa which directs us to fight those who commit injustice against us.

I hope you can understand what I am saying. Like I said, I am no scholar, but I will try to explain, the best way I know, how it is to live (and die) as a Muslim. I do not expect anyone on this web site to become a Muslim/Muslimah, all I can expect is, that we try to respect one another so we may have an open discourse.

As for the nickname I chose, al tawbah, it means, repentence. The chapter and verse, 9:123 from the qur'aan: O you who have attained to faith, fight against those deniers of the truth who are near you, and let them find you adamant, and know that Allaah is with those who are conscious of Him.

When I came across this site on the web, I thought the best way I could show Allaah my love and respect would be to show the truth about Islaam to those who may not know the truth about Islaam (for the western media has portrayed Islaam as being evil). This is my spiritual fight for Allaah's cause, and I can only believe, insha'Allaah, that we can learn from one another for the betterment of humanity.

So I hope, insha'Allaah, that I answered your questions the best way I know, and that if there are any other questions or comments, please do not hesitate to reply.

shokran wa tisbah ala kheer (thank you and goodnight)

Originally posted by Nygdan

as-assalamu 'alaykum

Welcome to ATS. Peace to you too!

Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
My good brother Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden was a CIA agent,

er, Intersting.

I believe there are powers that be that operate behind all the mishaps around the world in the name of Allaah or Islaam.

The Illuminati or the Isamlii, which do you prefer as the agents of evil?

What I am saying is, there is a clash between old (traditional) and new (globalization), and the powers that be, US government (CIA)

THe US government is a little bit more than just the CIA, which is just an intelligence agency within the government.

I say, why can't we all have the life we are used to, without any type of infringement?

Because non-infringement is immpossible. You noted it yourself, muslims were readily able to adapt to and adopt western things, modern things. Thats an infringment, they're innovations according to some, and therefor agents of evil. This means that there will allways be westernizing/modernizing/globalizing forces at work in 'traditional' places like the islamic world, and thus allways strife, so long as its resisted anyway.

Islaam is all about jihaad, but not the type of jihaad American media portray us as

The media, especially american media, is constantly talking about how jihand merely means a sancitifed struggle, often within one's self, to stay on a virtuous path. But what american media, or, honestly, you, think jihad means isn't important, guys like bin ladin aren't talking about a sacred personal struggle when they use it, they're talking about pysical war.

all we are asking is, to be left alone in peace, to be left to our tradition.

But you have adopted things that are not part of your tradition. No one forced anyone to build modern buildings or purchase televisions and cell phones.

Is this too much to ask, I do not think so.

But you are using the internet.

My name is Muhammad

Tawbah means returning or turning away from sin no? Whats the 9 123 bit about?

[edit on 27-10-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
The reason behind my saying Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is a good brother is because he has attempted to expel sheetaan (Satan) from our countries here. When I say this, I mean, in Islaam we do not care for the vices western society believe to be part of freedom. Drugs, alcohol, music which does not revere Allaah, sex, even certain sites on the web are banned (I was surprised that this site was not banned - maybe the Council has yet to find this one out, I do not know). What my good brother has attempted to do was (and is) drive out sheetaan or the vices from our way of life. This is what I mean by my brother being good. I hope you can understand.

Welcome! I am sure there is a lot we can learn from each other and it will be refreshing to have another voice here.

I am curious about the fact that Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden was very supportive of the Taliban who was instrumental in keeping women from reading and getting education. If you say he is such an advoicate of freedom (as you did above) then why would he back a group that would publically execute women by stoning for simply wanting to read?

The rest about drugs, alcohol and music I struggle with for if a person is not fully able make their own decisions (having someone's view forced on them) then how can they truly be free?

It's like the USA is forcing western views on the middle east. Fine, I understand that view. But how can you believe Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is any better when he too is simply forcing his beliefs on you instead.

Anyway, welcome again and I look forward to more.

Shalom and Baruch Haba (

welcome, and i have a few questions as well:

do you condone the suicide attacks on children in iraq and elsewhere by muslim insurgents? if so why?

would you yourself be willing to become a suicide bomber? if so, why?

do you believe (as the iranian president has stated this week) that israel and all jews should be irradicated? or do you recognize israels right to exist?

Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
I was surprised that this site was not banned

? Why? Where are you posting from??


If bin ladin is good because of trying to get ride of 'evil' influences, then why was he working for the CIA, if they are evil?

Why is it good for bin ladin to tell other people what to do? Can't the people decide for themselves whether or not something is evil? If no, does that mean that they can do evil? If yes, then doesn't that mean that muslims can be/do evil?

and if you mean the Illuminati in this way,

I was interested to see what group a muslim would think is behind it all. There is a syrian girl here who beleives that the illuminati are behind it too. I have also read that the ismaili are the 'illuminati of the east', not necessarily in action but at least in the way that they are perceived by the mainstream.

So basically I was wondering if there was some new group that occidentals aren't too familiar with that figures largely into oriental conspiracy.

To me, Bush serves sheetaan,

Isn't that a subjective application of who is evil and who is not tho?
Are religious cheifs especially holy and sacred such that they, via some sort of communion with the divinity, will be able to identify, unquestionably, what is evil and what is not? What I mean is, is there no room for error?

In fact, the CIA and Mossad allowed for the 9-11 to occur.

You are saying that they knew bin ladin was going to do it and did nothing to prevent it?

So they could blame it on us, and in turn, take over Afghanistan and Iraq, and in time, Syria and Iran.

Why would they need the pretense? The whole world was opposed to the Iraq War, that made no difference. And now everyone's even more opposed to it, thats not going to make a difference vis a vis iran or syria.

I hope you do understand the reason behind this, in order to take Iran and Syria, two countries that will not fall so easily, they went after Afghanistan and Iraq,

Why is Syria supposed to be more difficult than Afghanistan? And Iran? Do you mean that the actual conquering will be difficult, or rather that the occupation after that will be difficult? If so, why? If the iranians or the syrians have some special ability with regards to an insurgency, what difference would it make if Iraq was still run by hussein, or if the taliban were still running Afghanistan? Would not someone like hussein work with the US, in such a situation, if it mean more land/power for him?

As for our tradition, insha'Allaah, we strive every day to do Allaah's will.

By who's estimation is the will of god decided upon tho? Is having war over television and music in accord with god?

I am a slave to Allaah. To westerners, this may sound strange.

Why do you think that tho? Christian religious tradition strongly emphasizes giving up the self in servitude to god, even in the gospels a christian apostle tells a runaway christian slave to return to being a slave, because god is beyond that sort of thing.

Also, as to your point, our technology is up to date, we are better educated than most other countries

How do you figure?

that is, visit areas on the net that will demean Allaah.

What happens when someone else decides that you've done just that tho?

This is what my akhi (brother) Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is doing.

But if he is doing this service in doing 911, then why;d the cia permit it?

As a Muslim, I must abide by (and I also want to) any fatwa (legal ruling) that is issued by any Imaam (scholar) or Hafidh (very high ranking scholar)

Does this include Shia and Sufi imams?

about a third of us here speak and write English,

In saudi arabia? Whats the term for saudia arabia too, I've heard some people call it 'saudi' for short, but that sees inaccurate. Is there a shorthand?

akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden and Mullah Omar gave fatwa(s) along with other leaders, to fight (spiritually and physically) anyone who attempts to oppress our homeland.

When was bin ladin made a religious scholar?

We feel that the western powers are oppressing us

How, specifically, do you see this as happening? I'd be interested to hear a muslim perspective. Often we hear that its over the interferece with the persian Shah and for supporting saddam or favouring israel. Do you see it as that, or is it over more subtle things, like television, innovations, cultural matters (the way women and men dress and carry themselves), etc?

we try to respect one another so we may have an open discourse.

Indeed, we have a strong policy of not tolerating abuse between members, so if anything like that happens, let staff know so we can stop it.

(for the western media has portrayed Islaam as being evil)

How do you figure? Whenever I see it in the media its very carefully presented as being a good and just religion.

Even though I replied before, something just bothered me and so, just like Columbo...I had to come back for more. You stated this in your opening post:

Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
Even though I have never been to America, I find Americans gullible and passive in relation to their governmental powers.

You also list this in your profile - Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

I realize there can be many, many motivations for coming here in the style you are using...most of which are bad, but let me tell you that I know you are not being truthful with either of the two statements above.

Keep in mind that our Terms & Conditions state:
1.) You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Based on that alone, your account here could be closed for posting false information.

Now, how about we try again and you tell us the real story?

Frequently, I visit an audio-text chat called Paltalk. In a section of Social Issues, there is a room I usually go to to listen to Americans talk against Islaam (the room is Muhammadans: Israel Forever, Deal With It!) I find in this room as in other Paltalk rooms, that Americans are gullible or easily taken in by their own government. Americans speak against Islaam from listening to American media, their President (Bush) and other politicians telling them, time and time again, that akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is a terrorist, that Hamas is a terrorist organization; in this Paltalk room, there are Israeli(s) who continuously talk about suicide attackers, that Islaam is a cult, that we should all die, that Makkah should be bombed. Also, there are Christians who side with the zionist Jews who believe that all Muslims/Muslimahs should be exterminated, that the world would be a better place without us.

There are many people from all walks of life that come and go in that room (and others like it), my own brothers and sisters also go into that room (and others like it) to attempt to dispel some of the false beliefs. Usually we get red dotted (muted) or bounced from the room, sometimes we are reported as threatening harm to others, and our Paltalk accounts are closed. My akhi zeeko had his account closed because he spoke against the zionist Jews in such a way that they feared him. Months later, he bought a new computer, and now he is able to get into Paltalk (under Palname: zeeco).

I guess what I am trying to say is, I learn a lot of things about Americans who voice their opinions and beliefs over a microphone and in text. And if this is anything close to how Americans are for the most part, then it tells me one thing only, that Americans (or any country) are being fed lies about Islaam, and they have fallen for those lies.

So, it is true, I do believe Americans, from what I know in those Paltalk rooms, to be gullible and passive in regards to what their government is informing them of via the media. It is all but a bunch of lies. And if I can, insha'Allaah, I will tell the truth wherever I go about Islaam or our way of life, be it in Paltalk rooms (al tawbah 9_123 is my Palname) or in this forum. I have nothing and no one to fear, only Allaah. I will tell the truth the best way I know regardless if the person I am responding to cares to hear it or not.

Allaahu Akbar

Osama Bin Ladin is a terrorist. He is not a good person, any which way you look at it. Thousands of innocent people died because of his will, and hopefully it'll be his turn soon.

With that being said, you do seem like an intelligent & dedicated person, nice to have you here.

Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

So, it is true, I do believe Americans, from what I know in those Paltalk rooms, to be gullible and passive in regards to what their government is informing them of via the media. It is all but a bunch of lies. And if I can, insha'Allaah, I will tell the truth wherever I go about Islaam or our way of life, be it in Paltalk rooms (al tawbah 9_123 is my Palname) or in this forum. I have nothing and no one to fear, only Allaah. I will tell the truth the best way I know regardless if the person I am responding to cares to hear it or not.

Allaahu Akbar

well, that was a very politically correct post. however, you didnt answer a single question that was posted to you. try again please.

Welcome to the club, i'm sure your prescence will we good to this site.

Luxifero

Originally posted by snafu7700
well, that was a very politically correct post. however, you didnt answer a single question that was posted to you. try again please.

Please keep in mind that this is, after all, an introduction thread. No need for grilling here, there'll be plenty of oppurtunity to discuss things in full throughout the rest of the forum. I'm looking forward to what tawbah has to input in other forums and the perspective he can provide as much as you are, so lets not let him think that this place is all hot lamps and dark rooms!

Welcome al tawbah, nice to meet you. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by snafu7700
well, that was a very politically correct post. however, you didnt answer a single question that was posted to you. try again please.

Please keep in mind that this is, after all, an introduction thread. No need for grilling here, there'll be plenty of oppurtunity to discuss things in full throughout the rest of the forum. I'm looking forward to what tawbah has to input in other forums and the perspective he can provide as much as you are, so lets not let him think that this place is all hot lamps and dark rooms!