Can Anyone Possibly Debunk This Man?

In regards to the area 51 caller, this was a hoax as i've got a copy of the show where he phoned in and explained that it was hoax.

here is the link: Area 51 Caller Hoax

its at the bottom of the page

reply to post by Slamminuk



Yes a gentleman did call back and say it was a hoax....but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the same guy,its likely perhaps but likely isn't definitive. Being that this is ATS you must ponder deeper grasshopper....not all things in any "conspiratorial event" are as they seem, for such is the purpose of conspiracy....

reply to post by Averysmallfoxx

Yes a gentleman did call back and say it was a hoax....but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the same guy,its likely perhaps but likely isn't definitive.

Look at the situation like this. Is there ANY reason to actually believe this guy? What he's claiming isn't normal, it's outlandishly extraordinary. People pulling pranks and hoaxes, satellite problems, and feelings of guilt - however... ARE normal. They occur all the time. So what you have to weigh in consideration is... without extraordinary evidence to back an extraordinary claim... which is the most likely scenario? That an uncommon sequence of common - everyday events took place, or that unsubstantiated and extraordinary event actually took place?

Another poster asked why, if he was going through all the trouble to hoax C2C, would he call back and reveal his hoax? I don't believe I've heard the callback, but one clear reason - guilt - immediately pops into the forefront of my mind. In a similar situation, I may very well find a hoax like that perpetrated by me to be extremely funny. However, the coincidental satellite malfunction would have elevated a humorous hoax to a level that the hoaxer did not wish it to go. Remember the stories of the panic which ensued in some areas after the "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast earlier in this last century? The hoaxer might have realized that the malfunction may have given his story undue urgency and credibility - and so he decided to reveal the hoax before anyone out there did anything colossally stupid based on his false testimony.

Unfortunately, we may never know if he would have called back and revealed the call to be a hoax had the satellite not malfunctioned and knocked the station off the air. However, while it's philosophically possible that he was telling the truth and it's all part of a coverup scheme - the odds against it are so small, and the evidence so insubstantial, that there's really no good reason to believe that it was.

reply to post by Lasheic


You may be right. You said that we'll never know if he would've called if the call had not been knocked off the air. Actually, he told us in the second call: "and if the call had been completed, it'd be ancient history by now". That says he wouldn't have bothered to call back, right?

reply to post by wintermarches


Well, as I said I haven't listened to the second call - so if he mentioned that, I would guess that would be a good positive indication not revealing the hoax. Still, he may have come forward at a later date anyhow after ruminating on it a bit, or maybe out of a desire for recognition, as it probably still would have garnered a good deal of attention. The satellite issues, though, brought the effects of his actions and whatever personal guilt he may have felt into sharp and immediate contrast though the amplification of the situation well beyond what he was intending.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Lasheic]

reply to post by Lasheic


Um if interdimensional beings were planning an attack how would there be "places we can go" Where exactly? The mountains? The desert? My moms house?Give me a break.And as far as the station losing power,I wouldnt be suprised at all if Bell was in on the whole thing.Art has demonstrated time and time again his willingness to sacrifice getting to the truth of a matter for dramatic affect and sensationalism.Remember Jonothan Reed?Bell was aware that the story had been debunked and yet still regarded the Reed hoax as legit to his listeners, and that is just one example of many.The only thing Bell is big on are ratings for his show. Someone summed Bell up rather well, "Bell's the crackwhore of UFOlogy." Best known for infamous Hale-Bopp broadcast in which he allowed it to be announced that a UFO was following the comet Hale-Bopp. Some say Bell is responsible for the mass suicide of the Heaven's Gate cult. Bell was provided plenty of information showing the Hale-Bopp UFO claim to be false. Was reported to have said, "So what? Controversy is good for ratings," when he was given evidence it was a hoax. Bell and his sidekick Whitely Strieber attempted to take credit for exposing the Hale-Bopp hoax, but it was actually radio journalist Jeff Rense that exposed the hoax on his live radio program. Bell has been provided much information regarding his repeat guests (Ghostwolf, Dames, Hoagland, Morton, Reed) and their false claims, yet he continues to ignore such information. Bell has consistently ignored info showing how bunk many of his guests are. What happened to presenting all the information and being "really big on" telling the truth? In the words of Bell, "Ratings equal money. I should know." Yep, that says it all

I don't think the question should be whether anyone can debunk this guy. The question should be why should we believe this guy.

Anyone could have been able to put up an act like that.

On a side note: Why are aliens more and more portrayed as 'inter dimensional beings' after the release of Indiana Jones 4?

[edit on 26/11/2008 by mandrake]

reply to post by mandrake


Because the UFO/Alien phenomena is by and large pure fantasy. It's a snowballing collection of different perceptions all influencing each other and forming new perceptions. There may be something at the heart of the matter, but there is very little of this real info out there because people are too busy chasing their perceptions to look at the actual evidence or exercise their rationality. Look at how many people in this thread alone seem to believe the call based on nothing but "Gut" instincts.

Different cultures have different, sometimes radically different, types of UFO phenomena and encounter experiences. Some would claim that this is because of some grand Federation of species who have divided up the Earth for research, or conquest, or whatever. This is, to them I suppose, easier to believe than it being the same social mechanism which has filled our spiritual history with 1,000's of different gods and pantheons. All of which, of course, had their own revelations, miracles, feats, and whatnot else that supposedly proved their validity.

Indiana Jones might be adding a bit of fuel to the fire, but I've noticed that this concept has been on the rise since the advent of social networking/discussion sites on the internet as well as the increasing divide between evidence based and belief based mindsets. In a way, religious people and UFO believers are kindred spirits - because the evidence for either simply isn't there and that isn't a problem for them. I think their perceptions may be getting mixed with one anothers - and Aliens are being more and more viewed as Demons - or vice versa by some.

I would say another large factor is that as computers get more and more powerful, we're able to better measure the universe's properties and compile that information from which to form and test hypothesis about how our universe works outside of our immediate perception. This knowledge hasn't been disseminated to the general public very well, and their misunderstanding or misconceptions of it are influencing their perceptions as well. Not to mention that a lot of it is pretty technical, and the general public likely wouldn't understand it anyhow. Those who are able to put complex issues and phenomena in terms that are both accurate and easy to understand are few and far between.

That's my take anyhow. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable in sociology would be able to extrapolate further.

Originally posted by siriuslyone
This is a link to the Victor interview, maybe Sean Morton has it?
He was on the same show.
Sean David Morton, who is ACCURATE, gives a review on the alien tape, saying 'This is not a taped event.This is real'

www.coasttocoastam.com...

hello

i remember art bell talking about how he felt that victor sounded like someone he knew...but he couldnt imagine it could be this guy...does anyone know who art bell thought victor sounded like?..ive forgotten and id like to see for myself if the voices are similar..

thanks

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by mandrake

 

Because the UFO/Alien phenomena is by and large pure fantasy.

'by and large' is good enough for me....in saying that you are saying its real..

Originally posted by articulateka0s
so were gonna get wiped out by aliens

well thats just great


no wonder george bush has such a tough time with our language...

[edit on 27-10-2005 by articulateka0s]

No you're not. Aliens aren't here to wipe this race out, they are here to help you. Your race is alien in itself. The people on this planet did not originate from this world, but you have been made to forget that through the corruption on this world.

This recording is fake. Ask any decent psychic and they will agree.

reply to post by alienesque


UFO's are simply unidentified objects. Of course they are real. Once identified, they are no longer a UFO. They then become IFO's (Identified Flying Objects) - be it weather balloons, UAV's, atmospheric phenomena, etc... etc... Although there is a chance that they do become MIFO's (MisIdentified Flying Objects).

Aliens? Sure... look at Hubble Deep Field. It's inconceivable to me to accept that life does not exist out there. It's highly unlikely that intelligent life doesn't exist out there. Whether or not they're visiting our planet, I don't know. If they have the technology to get here, then it can be reasoned that they are inquisitive, and surely on at least some level, we would be interesting. We humans consider ourselves far, far, more advanced than the lowly grubs crawling through the dirt - and yet, you'd be surprised at the amount of money and attention that have gone into studying and cataloging the different species of them. Their behaviors, their diets, their anatomy, their reproduction, etc... etc...

After these basic precepts though, the ideas generally presented by advocates of Alien Phenomena tend to break down due to lack of evidence or sufficient reasoning. There's far too many extravagant explanations for so scant few truly unexplainable phenomena, and even fewer known facts about them.

So yeah... I do believe that there is some small kernels of truth to the phenomena - but they are so obscured by the fantasy that's woven around them that they are often missed entirely in favor of the more exciting and speculative fiction.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by Lasheic]

Originally posted by alienhealer

Originally posted by articulateka0s
so were gonna get wiped out by aliens

well thats just great


no wonder george bush has such a tough time with our language...

[edit on 27-10-2005 by articulateka0s]

No you're not. Aliens aren't here to wipe this race out, they are here to help you. Your race is alien in itself. The people on this planet did not originate from this world, but you have been made to forget that through the corruption on this world.

This recording is fake. Ask any decent psychic and they will agree.

Uhhhh...what. Are you eluding to be extra-terrestrial yourself? With the whole "your race" thing kinda makes it seem as though you are claiming to be not part of "my race"...Elaboration please!!!?

Originally posted by alienhealer
This recording is fake. Ask any decent psychic and they will agree.

To which recording do you refer? The first or the second?

Originally posted by Lasheic
[...] Look at how many people in this thread alone seem to believe the call based on nothing but "Gut" instincts. [...]

I mentioned my gut because it is an important test for me, personally. This is not to say it's proof (I also offered an analysis based on factual observation), but I don't see why this is a bad thing for people to check their gut. The problem is that you have people with their "guts" telling them things contradictory to other people's guts. That doesn't mean I will stop listening to my own gut. My intuition (which I would call it, rather than "instinct") has shown me things I could have never gotten from facts alone; the facts later proved my hunches.

Not everything can be proven right away. This is why we have to rely on all our senses. It can't be put forth as proof in a court or in a formal discussion, but it is there and I feel it should be taken into account on some level. Whether the rest choose to believe anyone else's story or intuition is up to them, but sometimes that's all we have. Plenty of people have experiences without witnesses, and that others would never believe, and can't empirically prove. That's just how it is, but it doesn't mean the experiences are delusional or made-up. It just means they haven't been factually "proven" yet. I don't know how to reconcile this problem on the forums, but the fact that people keep telling their stories means some people do listen to them and stay curious about them.

And I agree with you that some stories probably become way more fantastic than they really are. I see that you also admitted that there is some truth to the alien phenomena, so maybe you are already on the same page. I just wanted to urge caution in discounting everyone's intuition.


Also, I don't agree with your assertion that the alien storytelling is the same "mechanism" as religious beliefs. I'm not a sociologist, but I have read about that study that says there is a part of the brain that produces religious experience. That study to me is also open to interpretation, since I have spiritual (or energetic?) experiences you can't write off as just my brain functioning. And, my experience aside, one could say that just because the brain can produce this experience doesn't mean there are no experiences of this type that are real. Some might say, "what is real? This could all be someone else's dream." And it could go on and on. My point, though, is that there is a big difference between 10 cultures believing in different gods, and 10 cultures who are seeing different kinds of extraterrestrials. In my opinion, the extraterrestrial belief is more realistic than the god belief because if there are other planets out there than it is logical to surmise that some of them are inhabited by life as this one is. (For example, as I'm sure you know, there is already evidence coming in that some conditions may, at least in the past, have been conducive to life on at least Mars.) I could turn out to be wrong on this, and it turn out that same part of the brain produces alien experiences, too, of course...

I've never seen an alien, myself. This kind of bothers me, seeing as I've had other experiences which were consciousness-changing to me. If I had seen an alien, I would be more likely to be more into these alien stories which seem like so much fantasy to me. I'm not saying they're not real; I just am somewhat detached from them since these kind of things have never happened to me. Why don't I get to see aliens?


[edit on 26-11-2008 by wintermarches]

reply to post by wintermarches

I don't see why this is a bad thing for people to check their gut.

It's not a bad thing to listen to your intuitions, or your gut instincts. The problem is that "Gut instincts" are not a form of objective evidence or proof - and therefore should not be a deciding factor in whether or not you accept a particular story, event, whatever. It should be heeded, though, as a compass to direct your actions and search for the truth.

Gut instincts can help lead an investigator to evidence which will help solve a crime, but cannot hold up as evidence in and of itself in a court of law. That's a very important distinction IMO. So we do agree on this point, I would extend this principal into my personal life and my beliefs. In the courtroom of conflicting opinions in my mind, I tend to side with that which has evidence or a solid line of reasoning - even if it goes against my gut instinct. The same reasons it cannot be used in a court of law, I think, are the same reasons it should not be the litmus test for what I accept as truth.

I see that you also admitted that there is some truth to the alien phenomena

Careful with the wording. You make it sound as though the "Alien Phenomena" has already been proven - just not acknowledged. It's my belief though reasoning that the Alien Phenomena is very likely to be real on at least some level - but my opinion on the matter is pretty much the same as the hardcore skeptics. Until there is proof that it is real, then I cannot make a definitive statement or belief in them. Even then, if you can prove that the alien phenomena is real - at least on some level - that doesn't prove any of the other claims which have been put forth. It only proves that to which the evidence can provide.

I just wanted to urge caution in discounting everyone's intuition.

I would urge caution in accepting or believing anyone's intuition (including your own) unless they can provide a solid line of reasoning, some form of evidence to back them up, or can gain your trust through virtue of being accurate enough (and enough of the time) to where you can feel comfortable enough to differ your judgment.

This last point is why I trust scientists more than spiritualists. Science works.

I have read about that study that says there is a part of the brain that produces religious experience.

You're referring to the "God Spot". It's been suggested that our brains are wired for religious experiences. Not specifically wired, mind you, as it's more of a coincidence. A short circuit, or a byproduct of different parts of the brain working together in tandem, would be a more accurate description. And it's not just a "spot", but more like a part of the network. However, some "trigger" points have been known to exist. For example, I believe that religious experiences have been linked to frontal lobe epilepsy. However, attempts to induce religious experiences using outside stimulation have met with mixed results.

This is sort of what I'm talking about when I mention "Kernels of Truth" in the Alien Phenomena. It is true that those who believe in god do feel "in the spirit" and transposed... enraptured... and in spiritual connection and awe. To them, this is all that's needed for proof. The kernel of truth is that it is a real and measurable phenomena that's occurring in our brains. Our interpretations of it... however... those are subjective. That is where culture and imagination combine to create the myriad of different gods and pantheons. So take note also, that when I mention that there's a kernel of truth to something, it doesn't necessarily mean I support the basic hypothesis which is being presented. Even if I find it likely that intelligent alien life exists out there, and even if I find it plausible that this alien life has visited us, and even if I accept that there is some kernel of truth to the alien phenomena - that does not sum up to me believing that actual aliens are behind the alien phenomena that some people claim to have experienced.

Some might say, "what is real? This could all be someone else's dream.

It's always bugged me when people veer a conversation in this direction. It usually happens when someone is cornered or has run out of ideas. They divert the conversation away from reality and into the realm of philosophy where anything is possible and can be argued for. The problem is, though, that this really accomplishes nothing and is just a way spinning wheels while going nowhere trying to get your opponent to wear out and concede or otherwise withdraw from the discussion.

There's a reason why majoring in philosophy is a poor career move, excepting in the case of professional arguers like politicians or lawyers.

In my opinion, the extraterrestrial belief is more realistic than the god belief because if there are other planets out there than it is logical to surmise that some of them are inhabited by life as this one is

You could make a similar argument in the case of god though. It's often said that god/gods are the creators of the universe. We create universes all the time with our imaginations. Some of them are put into computer simulations. Would a simulated intelligence in a sufficiently simulated environment intrinsically know that it was a simulation? If not, then at some point that AI would have accepted the simulation as reality, meaning there would be a point of discovery where old ideas on the nature of the simulation were shattered.

Dawkins has stated that it is far easier for him to imagine us coming into contact with beings who are so technologically advanced that they seem to be gods to us... but they wouldn't be gods, because they exist within the universe. Given what we can simulate now, what kind of simulations do you think "god like beings" could produce? Would AI's in their simulations be able to recognize it as such? Would not the god-like beings actually BE gods to the AI's, as they are the creators of their universe and exist outside of it?

If the diversity and perseverance of life to flourish on Earth, as well as the enormity of the heavens can lend logical creedence to the idea of aliens visiting the Earth, then does not the above scenario also lend a bit of logical creedence to the existence of a god/gods?

reply to post by Lasheic


By the way, a clarification on the last comment above. I was only stating that as a devil's advocate. I do personally believe in the existence of a creator god/gods. Aside from that basic precept, I steer clear of any speculation as to what the nature of that god may be, what properties it posses, or what it wants. However, as a mediator in a discussion between an Atheist and Theist - I typically tend to side with the Atheist, since belief is just that. A belief. All applicable evidence out there points thus far to the conclusion that there is no god or gods, and unanswered questions about the creation or cause to the universe or phenomena within it are just that. Unanswered questions.

Come on people, the guy is totally acting (and not very good at it IMO)

Originally posted by daddymax

Originally posted by alienhealer

Originally posted by articulateka0s
so were gonna get wiped out by aliens

well thats just great


no wonder george bush has such a tough time with our language...

[edit on 27-10-2005 by articulateka0s]

No you're not. Aliens aren't here to wipe this race out, they are here to help you. Your race is alien in itself. The people on this planet did not originate from this world, but you have been made to forget that through the corruption on this world.

This recording is fake. Ask any decent psychic and they will agree.

Uhhhh...what. Are you eluding to be extra-terrestrial yourself? With the whole "your race" thing kinda makes it seem as though you are claiming to be not part of "my race"...Elaboration please!!!?

Hi

How to answer this, lol.

I'm a star seed, having my first life on this world, who has lived in this life in two worlds I guess you could say. The human side of me, raised by my parents. And the other side of me, interacting with my race from where I came from, interacting with other races, and spirit. So I often do detach myself from being human as I don't view myself as such, more as spirit.

IT can be funny at times, one time I had a reading from a psychic who was unsure about what she was seeing. IT was the first time she had ever seen alien energy, alien entities etc. The night after reading me she had her own encounters, a few nights after that she found out that her son was a star seed. A few weeks ago I had one psychic, he runs the local health shop look at me and call me a hybrid, lol. Typically I stay out of the ufo community and mainly stay int he psychic community, as there people can sense who and what I am, and I just go my way.

The vast majority of people having genuine encounters with "aliens" are star seeds interacting with their own people. Not all, a small amount are not star seeds that are having encounters. But a lot of people claiming interactions are having military abductions not alien encounters, but are being left with screen memories that their abductor is an alien.

reply to post by siriuslyone


there is nothing to debunk.... just read you thread that you linked to... it happened in 11yrs ago.