A Revolution !! Russia Develops Plasma Stealth Tech

The United States, Russia, and Britain have all worked on Plasma stealth technology. Actually the United States has been working on it since the 70s.

No doubt this would be a revolution in flight technology. And if it were affordable and capable of working on older planes, the entire balance of power would be tossed into a blender. It would basically be a race to make more efficent plasma generators, and more efficent ways of getting past them. This would basically mean anybody with a Mig-21 get's a stealth fighter.

On the other hand, the question is, would this be anywhere near affordable? How much interference should unshielded planes expect? Would this at all have negative effects on the pilot?

The big issue here though is lack of source. Like others, I'm certain they're working on this, and might have a few successful prototype planes, secret of course. But until I see this myself, or some more credible sourcing, I'm not going to believe that they've got it all ready to go.

Originally posted by Manincloak
Holy crap.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this not mean that they could deploy their... 400 or so bombers, and nuke US, China, England, France and Israel all at the same time?

If they say it will work for older designs, I don't see why not?

Firstly, I doubt they even have 400 operational bombers left, maybe 100 at best.

Secondly, why on earth would they want to that? Seriously?

Thirdly, the have more than enough ICBMs to do that anyway and a lot easier, I mean if every other nuclear capable country gets attacked all at the same time except Russia, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who the likely culprit is.

Anyway they could just as easily stick some nukes in an airliner and do the same thing, a sort of trojan horse attack they would be tracked the whole way with noone suspecting a thing. A much better idea as they could almost get away with blaming it on terrorists then.

Still a rather far fetched idea though, only a nutter country like Iran or North Korea would be mad enough to try something like that.

Originally posted by R988
Firstly, I doubt they even have 400 operational bombers left, maybe 100 at best.

They have bombers, they're officially in service, so I don't see why they would stop working all of a sudden.

And if a few don't work, I'm sure it won't be hard/long/costly to fix em up.

Originally posted by R988
Secondly, why on earth would they want to that? Seriously?

I don't know....take over the world???

Originally posted by R988
Thirdly, the have more than enough ICBMs to do that anyway and a lot easier, I mean if every other nuclear capable country gets attacked all at the same time except Russia, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who the likely culprit is.

And how will they know?

What if Russia doesn't attack every nuclear country? Only half?

Right now, the CIA thinks al quaeda had a nuke inside the states, so what is the drop one over washington DC?

How will the america know if it's them or not??

In any way, they can never find out.

Using these plasma stealth bombers has a distinct advantage over conventional ICBMs.

Nobody will ever know who it was, they wouldn't even know it was dropped from a plane!

Originally posted by R988
Anyway they could just as easily stick some nukes in an airliner and do the same thing, a sort of trojan horse attack they would be tracked the whole way with noone suspecting a thing.

If the airliner came from Russia, which it would have to, then everyone would obviously know....

Originally posted by R988
Still a rather far fetched idea though, only a nutter country like Iran or North Korea would be mad enough to try something like that.

I don't know, practiaclly every country is mad enough to do this. China, USA (Bush is in charge, and that just says it all), N. Korea, Iran, maybe some others....

If at the 2008 Russian presidential election, one of the crazy candidates wins or the communists, then I think they'd do it straight away.....

Originally posted by waynos
All of the three above posts could be exactly right, I certainly don't know any different. But, if I may say so, I do think I detect a common theme here where the above claim, rightly or wrongly, is instantly dismissed as nonsense but claims of 200ft anti gravitiy, laser beam equipped super secret weapons from the USA, if not openly accepted, are certainly given more credence.

That is a fair point Waynos, but if I may respond...

There is a HUGE difference between a claim BY RUSSIA that they have a highly advanced totally revolutionary piece of equipment and a claim by CONSPIRACY THEORISTS that the US has highly advanced equipment.

For one, Russia is very well known for making outlandish claims and out right lies. In this specific case, they have made claims of designing just such a system FOR YEARS with absolutely nothing to show for it. Russia is also well known to have vast funding problems for just about everything, so one must assume that even if they have the basic theory down, making a working system would cost them a fortune to develope to the point of actually being combat capable, and frankly they just don't have the money right now.

On the other hand you have the US. America rarely makes outlandish claims about it's ability - in large part because our super high end stuff we'd rather keep secret. When we do, we also have very public demonstrations and generally do not hide bad results. On top of all of this, I would point out the now famous fact that the US accounts for nearly one half of the worlds total military budget, and has the greatest technology base of any country.

On top of all that, the US has a history of actually making such other worldly systems. From the Mach 3+ blackbird of the 1960's to the radical looking F-117 stealth fighter, the US has shown that it can and will make aircraft that are well beyond 'the norm". Thus, it is a lot more easy for me to think the US could have, say, the Aurora laying around then Russia having plasma generators because this would continue a trend with the US which is also supported by a lot of evedence where as Russia has absolutely nothing backing it's claim up.

It seems to me that when the US says "we have such and such" you can pretty much bet they do and then some, where as when Russia says they have something there is a good chance they are exagerating or even out right making it up.

Manincloak, I think your getting just a little paranoid there!!!

AMM - was it not said in another thread somewhere they have been using the plasma thing in radardomes for some time now... or at least have it tested on R&D aircraft

One thing most western people don't take into account when talking about Russia is that Science and R&D cost mere fraction of the money it costs to it in US since the salaries of scientist is so much lower and due to limitations of travel for certain specialists they are pretty much forced to work in russian secret projects. Also russian technical education is very high standard plus russian economy is growing all the time and goverment actually has lots of income as the oil prices grow...

AMM, The difference between the claims of a state and the claims of messageboard nutters is duly noted.

However I would also like to point out that, historically, Russia has a history of astonishing the west with what it can do.

This goes all the way back to the appearance of the MiG 15, which rendered most of the USAF and all of the RAF fighter strengths obsolete overnight. There was the fact that Russia beat the USA into space, at the tiem this was an utter shock to the US was it not?

We should also bear in mind the huge Ekranoplans, the existance of which was totally unsuspected in the west for two decades and we had nothing at all along the same lines, they were utterly different from anything we had seen before, except in the smallest experimental vehicles that were themselves at least a decade behind the Russian giants.

What I am saying is that we should not be surprised if the Russians HAVE actually got this idea working and we should be ready for the possibility.

I wouldn't say the Russians have a proven habit of lying, but I concede that they have a habit of exaggerating the effectiveness of some of what they have, but at least they do have it.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
For one, Russia is very well known for making outlandish claims and out right lies. In this specific case, they have made claims of designing just such a system FOR YEARS with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Russia has a tonn of companies making the best fighters in the world, and the best scientists in the world, so I don't see why this is far fetched the slighest.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Russia is also well known to have vast funding problems for just about everything

Everythingm conventional.
Stretigic and Secret projects always got and still get full funding.
Why do you think they still have insane nuclear capabilities.

They don't care for conventional weapons, they know that in a theoretical war with the US they would be of no use.
Just as the US knows that it's conventional forces would be of no use.

It's all about who has the best gadgets.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
On the other hand you have the US. America rarely makes outlandish claims about it's ability

Excuse me but,

You give me one good reason for Russia making this up.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
Manincloak, I think your getting just a little paranoid there!!!

I'm a paranoid person

Originally posted by northwolf
One thing most western people don't take into account when talking about Russia is that Science and R&D cost mere fraction of the money it costs to it in US since the salaries of scientist is so much lower and due to limitations of travel for certain specialists they are pretty much forced to work in russian secret projects. Also russian technical education is very high standard plus russian economy is growing all the time and goverment actually has lots of income as the oil prices grow...

This is by far the best point

The educational standards in Russia are extremely high, they have very smart scientists - a lot of them.

A shortage of these was never in effect, nor is it now.

And about the cost....everything is cheaper in Russia.
They employ 1 million troops for the same cost as US employs 10,000 troops.
Yet if worst comes to worst, I don't think their wages will matter much, when there is a need for them to defend their country.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
AMM - was it not said in another thread somewhere they have been using the plasma thing in radardomes for some time now... or at least have it tested on R&D aircraft

I haven't read anything on them using it in radar domes, and beyond that, my understanding is that plasma would interfere with radar.

As for them having tested it on any aircraft - they make claims, but where is the proof?

Generally, if you are willing to admit you have a capability, you at least show it in action.

For example, when the F-117 was admitted to exist, the US had a press confrence on it, and showed pictures to the public.

Originally posted by waynos
However I would also like to point out that, historically, Russia has a history of astonishing the west with what it can do.

This goes all the way back to the appearance of the MiG 15, which rendered most of the USAF and all of the RAF fighter strengths obsolete overnight. There was the fact that Russia beat the USA into space, at the tiem this was an utter shock to the US was it not?

They also have a habit of completely making things up when they can not actually counter the west. We all know the story about how Russia claimed to have thousands of more bombers then they did, and how the capabilities of their aircraft were widely exagerated - which was proven by defectors.

As you have just proven, when Russia actually HAS the US beat, she shows the world. On the other hand, when they can't, they say they can and offer no proof.

What I am saying is that we should not be surprised if the Russians HAVE actually got this idea working and we should be ready for the possibility.

I wouldn't say the Russians have a proven habit of lying, but I concede that they have a habit of exaggerating the effectiveness of some of what they have, but at least they do have it.

I agee, the west should ALWAYS be ready for such a breakthrough by another country, but the fact remains - they haven't offered a thing to prove their claims, and these claims about plasma stealth have been made for YEARS.

They were supposedly ready to export them what - like 3 years ago?

Originally posted by Manincloak
Russia has a tonn of companies making the best fighters in the world, and the best scientists in the world, so I don't see why this is far fetched the slighest.

They have two companies working on the SECOND best fighters in the world.

The Raptor is the best, hands down, and it's not even close. As far as their scientists, they have top quality guys, but to say they have the best is a stretch, especially considering that Russia hasn't produced ANYTHING revolutionary on an aircraft recently.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Everythingm conventional.
Stretigic and Secret projects always got and still get full funding.
Why do you think they still have insane nuclear capabilities.

They don't care for conventional weapons, they know that in a theoretical war with the US they would be of no use.
Just as the US knows that it's conventional forces would be of no use.

It's all about who has the best gadgets.

No, everything in general. THey have problems in every form of funding, hence why the US and Europe always cherry pick Russian scientists - because they can get more funding in the west.

As for Russia not "caring" for conventional weapons

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Excuse me but,

You give me one good reason for Russia making this up.

You'r laughing, but when was the last time the US claimed it had an ability it didn't? Because I can name COUNTLESS things Russia has lied/exagerated about.

As for why they would make it up... It is well known that US style shape/material stealth is extremely expensive, and Russia doesn't have the money to make such an aircraft. Thus, making up that they have perfected a plasma stealth generator would save them some face and also perhaps force the US to spend money/effort on combating such a system.

We all know the story about how Russia claimed to have thousands of more bombers then they did, and how the capabilities of their aircraft were widely exagerated - which was proven by defectors.

That is true, it is now well known how the same few Bison bombers circled around and back over the Moscow parades to make it look as if there were hundreds of them.

Of course this action was borne out of a Russian fear of hundreds of B-47's and B-52's with the British V-bombers (three different models, not just one, about to come on stream too. You could say that, in their view, they were just 'facing down the school bully' by trying to look stronger than they were.

It sort of backs up what I was saying in that there were very few actual Bison's but they were not a fictitious force, only the numbers were exaggerated.

Also, regards selling it three years ago, I didn't see the actual reports but you have to question the source itself, I am speculating but did offivcial Moscow sources say this or was it simply reported that way? Maybe a quote of 'we will soon be able to offer this tech for sale' got reported as Russians offer this tech for sale to the highest bidder' its easily done.

Anyway that looks as if I am trying to convince everyone that this is real, I'm not. I'm just saying don't be so certain it isn't real.

I'm not sure about America claiming to have something that it didn't, but there are countless examples of America claiming something was coming very soon which never did, your own favoured SDI is probably the prime example. Even as far back as 1979 this was just around the corner and definitely going to work. Bloody big corner!

[edit on 27-10-2005 by waynos]

Read Intelgurl's posts about Russian Plasma Tech at the top of the Forum.

It'll clue you in.

Shattered OUT...

Hmm, I don't know what you mean by 'clue you in' or even if that comment was intended for me (as if I hadn't already seen it ).

Intelgurls superb piece on Plasma stealth was written over a year ago. Nothing wrong with that but there is at least the possibility that some further progress has been made in the last 12 months isn't there?

Originally posted by waynos
Hmm, I don't know what you mean by 'clue you in' or even if that comment was intended for me (as if I hadn't already seen it

).

Intelgurls superb piece on Plasma stealth was written over a year ago. Nothing wrong with that but there is at least the possibility that some further progress has been made in the last 12 months isn't there?

Actually, Intelgurl suggests that in reality, there is ALOT of work to be done on this, and no my post wasn't directed towards you, my bad for not saying it was directed towards Prelude's original opening of the thread. I should have pointed that out.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by American Mad Man
They have two companies working on the SECOND best fighters in the world.

The Raptor is the best, hands down, and it's not even close.

Matter of opinion, and nothing but.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
No, everything in general. THey have problems in every form of funding

I s'pose you are some sort of a god, who knows everything?
What makes you think Russia isn't acting like it can't find the funding for everything?

Originally posted by American Mad Man
but when was the last time the US claimed it had an ability it didn't?

How should I know? I'm sure there are many people who can name many such things, but I'm not one of them.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Because I can name COUNTLESS things Russia has lied/exagerated about.

Please.....don't let anyone keep you.

Originally posted by American Mad ManAs for why they would make it up... It is well known that US style shape/material stealth is extremely expensive, and Russia doesn't have the money to make such an aircraft. Thus, making up that they have perfected a plasma stealth generator would save them some face and also perhaps force the US to spend money/effort on combating such a system.

Yes.....making up an outrageous lie as you make it seem will make pentagon officials s**t themselves will it now?

Well then, they are no smarter than George W. Bush

And there's nothing expensive about US stealth technology.

Russia developing plasma stealth. Good find! However, for the purpose of context, I thought I had seen this before. Fallowing my intuition, I did some digging in the ATS archives and found some background on Plasma Stealth in Archives:

More on Plasma Stealth

Tim

About russian "old habit of exagerration"

1 as another poster pointed out we have a good habit of astonishing the world .....i dont know how much openly is history toughT in USA .....but all authorities do accept that for countless times russia has astonished the world with her capablities and MIND THAT IN ALL THESE INSTANCES IT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY UNDERESTIMATED

1 Nepolion's invation ....almost the whole of europe was defeated ...US was not even considered to be a power to be defeated ....the french said it will capture russia in less than a month...and came back with less than 10 men

2 WW2
the brits were almost defeated ...europe was bleeding ...yanks sill unable to take revange after being screwed by the japs.......Hitler said he will take Moscow in 3 days ,US said the soviet military wasnt capable ...and in the long run we , Russians proved to be the saviors of the world ...and made the German prisoners make our metro railway

3 space ....i think that yanks will try to stay away from this TOPIC ....only one reminder .......NASA is sill unable to send astronauts to ISS without RUSSIAN help after the Colombia disaster ....Russian Rockets are today the only link between the world and ISS

Now about USA an "honest GOOD BOY"

The fact is we loose to the yanks when it comes to exagerration some of our stupid officers EXAGERRATE on public, i accept but they are too studip to make others understand that its an exagerration .But the US has a whole STATE policy of exagerration which consists of the entrire structure of the country beginINGg from education running to foreign policy and media and not even ending when it comes to bollywood movies ...as far as exagerration is concerned the yank are far more sofisticated and polished.....PROOFS?.....you have 2 options ...
1 .keep your mind open ...dont get brain washed ...study and analyse

that's the tougher path way
there is another easy one

2 wait for another 9/11
(Mr rumsfeld one said that the Pentagon CANT EVEN BE PENETRATED BY A MOSQUITO ...and after 9/11 it will be enough modesty to call it an exagerration

may god bless American mad MEN
:lo:

[edit on 1-11-2005 by prelude]

Originally posted by Manincloak
Matter of opinion, and nothing but.

It is an opinion that is held by Europe, Russia, India, and China in addition to the US and myself. However, this thread is not about the Raptor, so if you wish to discuss it further, take it to a different thread.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I s'pose you are some sort of a god, who knows everything?
What makes you think Russia isn't acting like it can't find the funding for everything?

No - it doesn't take a God, or even a very intellegent person to know this. It is pretty much common knowledge. It's not that they don't have funding for anything, it's that they don't have adequate funding for everything.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Please.....don't let anyone keep you.

I have already mentioned their lies about the bomber fleets. They also lied about the number and accuracy of their ICBMs. In addition the capability of their fighters was proven to be false.

It's really not worth it to go ahead and list them all... It is just a good thing to keep in mind when you discuss what would be a revolutionary technlogy which Russia has claimed to have ready for export for years, and yet has absolutely ZERO evidence to back it.

Yes.....making up an outrageous lie as you make it seem will make pentagon officials s**t themselves will it now?

Look, the Pentagon would have to take Russian claims seriously, because if they do have plasma stealth available for export, the US will likely be fighting against such systems in any confrontation it has - be it with global powers such as Russia and China or regional powers like Iran and North Korea.

Thus, they would have to spend money investigating these claims and on technology and tactics to combat such systems.

And there's nothing expensive about US stealth technology.

I would like to nominate this for the ATS Ignorant Post Of The Year award.

Dude, look at US stealth aircraft. The B-2 is a billion+ dollars a pop. With R&D it was almost 2 billion. That is more expensive then some aircraft carriers!

Look at the Raptor. That's a 100 million dollar aircraft - for a FIGHTER! It is nearly double the price of "competing" aircraft.