Being watched and what do we need to do ?

as we all know we are being watched and we all hate it but what can we do about it i have a theory if AOL has granted Homeland seurity acsses to all the suvallaince why can micrsoft not do it because they can get into any computer without fail if this was to happen they can add to it to all the other things how people can watch us such as

Video Surveillance
Banks
Telephones: Landline
Telephones: Mobile
Satellites
Computers
Loyalty Cards
Internet RIP Bill (UK)
hitbox.com monitor software on your computer

if all this was linked togther we could be controled soon what can we do to stop this and what does everything one think to this ?

Interesting post, it is a rather frightening subject if you think that you can be filmed approx. 2 miles outside of london on CCTV its rather scary to think what else they can be doing through tv and the internet.

I guess there is no way to prevent this... unless you cash in all your money and buy raw meterials and food and seeds and go and live in the woods somewhere away from technology and the rest of society. well thats my point of veiw although a bit far fetched

anyone else have anything to say on this subject

Two thing there doing here across the pond is 1) putting a smart chip in our licence that is scannable and would carry all our biometric info as well as whatever else they(shadow Govt?) might come up with. 2) They want to do the same thing with our passports so they could conceivably keep track of us overseas. Big brother is indeed watching us.

We constantly generate data about ourselves, and see the effects of that data in use. Just in reading this thread your IP will have been recorded by any number of different devices on route from you to here. Your browser and OS may also have been logged too.

You log off at work, maybe you have a time clock, maybe your workstation records your activity. Do you have a swipe card to get out of the car park ?

You turn your cellular 'phone on, and it calls home, so your cellular carrier knows where you (or at least your phone) is.

That bit of shopping you did on the way home, and the fuel you put in your car and paid by 'card'. That'll all have been recorded. The store and fuel station CCTV will have recorded you. That busy junction you went through on the way home, the local highways authority will have filmed you. If that camera streams out onto the internet, you'll be in someone's cache too, somewhere.

You come home and unset the burglar alarm, if it's linked to a monitoring station, that may record that it's been unset.
On your door mat is a utility bill, that you later pay online using electronic cash transfer, exactly in the same way as you buy that CD 10 minutes afterwards. There's also a reminder about your dental checkup next week, and a personalised letter from another credit card company offering you a better rate.

You take a 'phone call half and hour later and chat to your mate for 20 minutes, then go and meet them at the cinema, where their CCTV records you, as does the car park you use to leave the car in. Maybe you went to the ATM for cash, maybe you paid for your cinema tickets by card - either way, it knows ...

Take that cash you've been buying stuff with - your employer pays you electonically I'd expect, and the government knows how much it is, because of the link between earnings and your contribution to taxation and social security payments.

Not in a political anti-american ranting way, but it does rather put me in mind of this.
(Warning: link takes you to a page that contains swear words as song titles).

Maybe the Dead Kennedys were onto something after all in 1987 !

Yer there is propably a million other ways they can track you, every internet page u visit etc,

like this post here:

Keystroke loggers

and whats the point?? "nation security"? slowly over the years we have lost our rights and freedoms, especially after 9/11 and 7/7 soon who knows what we will be able and unable to do... will we soon have to file a request to go to the shops because there will be martial law on the streets?? who knows how far it will go...

~[JAY]~

I was at the post office about a month ago (while it was still warm).

There was this guy I just had to stare at:

Cap with "floyd turbo" earflaps, down all around.

mirrored sunglasses

longsleeve shirt ( +90 degrees)

leather gloves.

An old pre 1980 pickup with no tags!

This guy had barely an inch of skin showing. And I SWEAR he had on a plastic nose. Like so that "image recognition" cameras wouldn't spot him.

And he was carrying one of those metal clipboards that folds around itself and is practically bullet-proof. I kind of looked to see what was on it when he had it open. I swear it had a swastika on it. ! (maybe not. Maybe I was so freaked out that I assumed it was white-power hype.

I wonder if this dude was Republic of TX or militia or something.

I kind of wonder if a lifestyle of "avoiding survellance" results in a lifestyle/outlook like this guy has!

Last kid we had, we always shopped at Albertsons. They have a little tag you put on your keychain, it has a barcode, and they scan it with your purchase and you get 10% or so off.

Well.

About a week after we decided Frau Dr. was pregnant, we started getting deluged with junkmail, all of it tailored for the expectant family. I actually confronted her OB/Gyn, demanding to know why he had sold our name. He didn't but was familiar with the situation enought to walk through this with me:

Frau Dr. was on the pill. Which she filled at the alberston's pharmacy, using her "savings card." Then one day, she quits filling the perscription, and buys a pregnancy test instead. Afterward, there are no more purchases for tampons on our savings card.

And magically, we start getting junkmail and "free magazines" for expectant mommies, and they are magically timed to coincide with her pregnancy: "Welcome to your 16th week of Pregnancy!"

The "savings cards" actually log every purchase, and then data-mine the information and cross reference it with the rest of America, to predict what purchases you will be "succeptible to" next.

They have it divided out by zipcode, and know even what kind of car you can probably afford in your neighborhood!

There is an incredible book about this, now dated, called "The Naked Consumer."

The most sinister thing, it is used to "data-mine" your religious preference and voting habits, for political magazine subscriptions. The final chapter in the Naked Consumer details how the author was sold a "list of Jews" in the US and Canada, from a marketing firm.

Use a keycard...I know what soap you use...data miners are increasingly becoming a nuisance to all consumers.. and the thing is that the fine print of those terms and conditions thingys your scrolled through and ticked yes to accept, or that paper you signed agreeing yes......... allows them to do it by intriquite wording.......

Live in a urban area... you can be tracked easily...

Born today and have a heel prick test..then your dna is on a database.....

it always comes out in murder investigations that phone records pinpointed the persons location to within a certain distance. and the calls made are bought into evidence.

Its abundant, its everywhere... if people can't see that then they need to open eyes more...

One classic here is ..my hubbies a radio tech and amateur... we listen to the police channels... when they call out they often say no V.O.I. this had me beat.. till one day the operator actually said "no vehicle of interest"

so what I take that to mean, is if you are a criminal, if you associate or if you have had traffic offences your registration plate of your car gets logged as a "V.O.I" vehicle of interest. When you get pulled over, that car gets pulled apart...

Nowadays for nearly every street crime in my home town, the next days paper holds the 'street camera" images. Last week two tourists stepped off a plane from London and were attacked and beaten. next day we saw the footage of the actual beating in the paper......

hubby goes to doctor with suspected TB.......thats another conspiracy later.....anyhows his doctor gets on computer in his office at hospital types a code and brings up a site and then turns to hubby a minute later and said you left for Thailand on such and such a day in 1999, went to Burma this day and flew hom that day.....then he says your mother in law was in hospital and mentions the different state and different hospital she was in and the dates.. (she was in for TB)...

This is all pulled up from a doctors fingertips at a public hospital..

what to do about it..be aware, deny ignorance of the issue and help others become aware by speaking out where you can and alerting.. alerting people to the issues of security versus privacy.....with forums like these that is what is done...opens the eyes to possibilities and expands thoughts of curious people that stumble in the door.

they have the ability to watch you but to be honest..I think they only use it if you stand out and asked to be watched for whatever reason...I don't think we are all "being watched" as such...mr and mrs jones down the street are not being watched because they are perfectly controlled and duly docile.....

I think if they red flag you though ....well you can run but you can't hide



[edit on 29-10-2005 by Mayet]

They assemble info on everyone.

They just don't bother to collate it or use it until they need to "profile" you for something, whether it is for possible terrorism, or being sold a car you cannot really afford.

It gets used by the cops for predicting your next move.

(This we did, when I worked in law enforcement)

Somebody jumps bail, or is wanted for murder and dissappears. So you pull phone and ATM records back two years. Whereever they went of vacation last, especially if there's calls to a private home, you can bet that is their inlaws or exes or whatever, the place they will flee to. So you call that agency and arrange a pickup.

On a BIG (national case) they will pull your student loan papers (in the USA), because you had to list next of kin. You know when the cops get the info, because 15 minutes later there is a squadcar in front of the home of every one of your relatives.

Purchasing habits will show if you were planning to hide in the woods (tents and fishing gear), or flee the country (request for passport, purchase of new suitcases, etc.).

Even those Sam's and Walmart gascards can tell what route you will use when fleeing the cops.

Oh yes. I, as an individual, am being surveyed at every possible place at every possible second. Because we all know I am so important, that the governement has millions of dollars to spend on watching me buy dog food, post on ATS, e-mail my friend about me tripping up the curb the other day, watching "Dreamer" in the theater with my children...
Oh come ON.
If I went to Home Depot and bought PVC pipe and wires, and then went to my local food store and bought baking soda and vinegar, would I come home to "black choppers" flying around and an unmarked van sitting in front of my house?
If I have nothing to hide, then why would I care about what information is being tracked about me? I go to work, I eat dinner, I play with my kids. If that is a matter fo national security, then I am in big trouble. If my neighbor, however, is sneaking around and making bombs, I am GLAD he is/was being tracked by the "Government".
I have more important thngs to worry about.

Originally posted by Rouschkateer

Oh yes. I, as an individual, am being surveyed at every possible place at every possible second. Because we all know I am so important, that the governement has millions of dollars to spend on watching me buy dog food, post on ATS, e-mail my friend about me tripping up the curb the other day, watching "Dreamer" in the theater with my children...
Oh come ON.

If I have nothing to hide, then why would I care about what information is being tracked about me? I go to work, I eat dinner, I play with my kids. If that is a matter fo national security, then I am in big trouble. If my neighbor, however, is sneaking around and making bombs, I am GLAD he is/was being tracked by the "Government".
I have more important thngs to worry about.

you know that is what I did say in my post... in that case you are the Mr or Mrs Jones I wrote about. You have no need for survellience. But if you do happen to slip up, then records will be pulled... your history will be read and that is when you can run but not hide.

but that attitude worries me... you say why should I care... you should care because some day you may want your privacy and thats the day you will find it's been stripped from you.

Its that I don't care cos it's not happening to me issue thats a problem with our apathetic society..I am not saying you are apathetic, I mean you are here but I am saying that "why should I care " attitude which is indicative of many elements of society is dangerous to everyones freedoms and privacy and future.

What I am saying ..is nothings a cert in life...one flick of one switch and the boot can change foots and the wind change direction... you may just cry for that lost freedom then.




[edit on 29-10-2005 by Mayet]

Originally posted by Mayet
you know that is what I did say in my post... in that case you are the Mr or Mrs Jones I wrote about. You have no need for survellience. But if you do happen to slip up, then records will be pulled... your history will be read and that is when you can run but not hide.

The actual problem with this whole thing is that every Tom, Dick and Harry has a credit/debit card, and uses it for everything. I mean, everything. From gas to Internet purchases, to food or prescriptions...I mean, these people are putting their lives out there and then complaining someone is going to use that against them.

Here is my "little secret" (not really, just saying). I owe the IRS taxes from past years. I work at a place that gives me a paycheck, and the IRS knows it. I make too little for a family my size for them to automatically garnish my wages. So I go to my local check cashing store, cash my check, and pay my bills. In cash. They may be able to trace my cash spending, but it is harder for them to do so, isn't it? Therefore, I really don't have a history. I have NO credit/debit cards, bank accounts...nothing! Just good ole cash.

but that attitude worries me... you say why should I care... you should care because some day you may want your privacy and thats the day you will find it's been stripped from you.

Maybe I have that attitude because as of right now I don't plan on blowing anything up. I don't plan on turning into a mass murderer or serial killer. I don't plan on joining Al-Quida. To "them", I am just a regular Joe Schmoe.

Its that I don't care cos it's not happening to me issue thats a problem with our apathetic society..I am not saying you are apathetic, I mean you are here

but I am saying that "why should I care " attitude which is indicative of many elements of society is dangerous to everyones freedoms and privacy and future.

Honestly, I do care. A bit. I mean, it is a scary thought. But if I'm not doing anything wrong...then why should I think about it when I can be doing something else?

What I am saying ..is nothings a cert in life...one flick of one switch and the boot can change foots and the wind change direction... you may just cry for that lost freedom then.

And that's when America is no longer "land of the free", and I move out.

Please See SkepticOverlords Post For This Forum Found Here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks

ModEdit: see above

[edit on 10/29/05 by FredT]

There is no reason to be upset as long as the info in your files is used for good.

The problem starts when they datamine your activities, and automatically put you on a watch-list, without any human ever having decided you were a legitimate risk. Then they don't even tell you. Until one day, on your honeymoon, your trying to take a day-trip to Canada, and they tell you that you're not allowed to leave the USA.

(love it or . . . . love it or you'll be sorry!)


The goal of a bureaucracy is to have so many laws in place that at any given moment, you're breaking some rule. That way that can pick on whover they want.

Just wait until Raushketeer makes a neighbor mad, who turns out to be a government employee. And that somebody turns his name in. You know what they'll do first? Take a look at your tax records. OOOPS!

Then they take that, and the fact that you only deal in cash. And they'll go to an overworked judge and whisper in his ear: "militia member--only uses cash----planning to kill a judge." And the next thing you know, they have a search warrant on you with your name at the top and some judge's on the bottom. Only on your copy it won't list the judge, so you don't go postal on him.

I'm not joking. It happens. It happened before 9-11 ever came along. Now all you have to whisper in the judge's ear is "Homeland security," and his eyes roll back in his head and he signs any piece of paper within reach.

And judges ARE getting used to warrants based upon "patterns of activity" mined from your activities. In fact, most warrants now consist of that type of data.

Just because they aren't coming after today, doesn't mean they won't tommorroww.

* * * *

Hipparchus went to see Pisistratus, the Tyrant of Samos. He asked him, "You are so hated, why don't the people rise up and oust you?" Pisistratus never said a word. He led Hipparchus out to a wheat-field and began scything down the grain with his sword. But as Hipparchus watched, he noticed that the king only swung his sword above the grain. "I only cut down the heads that stick up above the crowd. That way I only slay a few, and yet none rise above me."

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Just wait until Raushketeer makes a neighbor mad, who turns out to be a government employee. And that somebody turns his name in. You know what they'll do first? Take a look at your tax records. OOOPS!

Then they take that, and the fact that you only deal in cash. And they'll go to an overworked judge and whisper in his ear: "militia member--only uses cash----planning to kill a judge." And the next thing you know, they have a search warrant on you with your name at the top and some judge's on the bottom. Only on your copy it won't list the judge, so you don't go postal on him.

I'm not joking. It happens.

First, a few friendly corrections:

It's ROuschkateer, not RAuschkateer.
I am a SHE not, a he.
They can look at my tax records all they want. I am paying on my taxes. If I open a bank account, they will sieze it. Then what? Then my kids go hungry? No thanks. I pay them what they want every month.

Onto rebuttal:
I don't think it is illegal to deal in cash all of the time. Is that what we are today? A nation of plastic? Is it odd behavior to deal only in cash? I understand that this is the day and age to be careful and be concerned, but what I am saying is that while I do not have an infallible route to cover my own rear, it is better than leaving a plastic trail all across America. I find it sad that people pay to use their own money. If using cash makes me more of a criminal, then no amount of pleading will turn a judge's ear, now will it?
From what you are saying, I'm already screwed. If that's the case, now what?

1. I din't know your gender. Apologies

2. I didn't know what "Roush" referred to. I assumed (hehe) that it was a reference to Rausching, the dancing and opera season in Vienna that falls between epiphany and the beginning of Lent. Not having any other input, my mind looked for a connection that wasn't there.

3. I don't use credit cards either. I am not saying you are wrong for making your choices. Just pointing out how easy it is for ANY thing you do or don't do to be made into "PC" (probable cause) for a warrant.

I know a fellow who deals in horses in Texas. In the horse business, most trading is cash-and-carry; you don't let someone write a check and dissappear into the sunset with a trailer containing $100K in horses.

Anyways, this friend was stopped in New Mexico by their state troopers, who SIEZED everything he had over $10,000 because in that state, excessive cash is considered PRIMA FACIE evidence of criminal activity. (ask me why I don't live in New Mex.) He literally spent the next two weeks trying to assemble reciepts to PROVE that he had sold that many horses. Even so, he had to get a lawyer to talk a judge into issuing a court order to get his money returned!

THIS is what I'm talking about. He was law-biding; but because New Mexico State troopers are not in the horse business, they confiscated his capital, without warrant, and impeded his ability to do business. Because they felt like it. That's why.