ATS: US Reluctant To Share Important Flu Samples

Perhaps one of the reason that our Gvoernment is doing what is doing to control the vaccines and the research on viruses and mnufacturing of posible drugs is do no because the can but because they are Own by the Pharmaceutical industry All at the expenses of suffering not only from the tax payer American but also the entire world.


How the pharmaceutical industry gets its way in Washington

The pharmaceutical and health products industry has spent more than $800 million in federal lobbying and campaign donations at the federal and state levels in the past seven years, a Center for Public Integrity investigation has found. Its lobbying operation, on which it reports spending more than $675 million, is the biggest in the nation. No other industry has spent more money to sway public policy in that period. Its combined political outlays on lobbying and campaign contributions is topped only by the insurance industry.

This elite and powerful people are one of the most money paying to political candidates campaing that any other industry in the US.

Now wonder our government do whatever they tell them to do.

Medicine makers hired about 3,000 lobbyists, more than a third of them former federal officials, to advance their interests before the House, the Senate, the FDA, the Department of Health and Human Services, and other executive branch offices.

This people controls everything.

www.publicintegrity.org...



[edit on 24-10-2005 by marg6043]

Great stuff marg. Thank you.

Beyond the pharmaceutical industry - high level corporate industry has been getting into position to profit from this for 55 years. All the majors are set to make a killing - and they won't give it up easily.

Originally posted by soficrow

The US government is using the 2002 Bioterrorism Act to obstruct access to scientific data about bird flu so that the information will remain privately owned and controlled, and can be used for profiteering.

.

Okay, here is the heart of your matter.
Your communal, socialistic mindset is having difficulty with the idea of anyone making a profit. I can really help you with this.

Companies do not make large profits from flu vaccines. It is just about a pro bono operation. There is not great benefit to the company and there is no benefit to the government; that is to say, no profit.

Now, let's think about this from another angle. Considering the 1918 flu pandemic was so brutal, and considering there just might be those who'd like to create instability throughout the world (besides the OWO gang), do you think maybe there could be other concerns besides the false notion that there is money to be made in flu vaccines?

Hey, why we're at, why don't we just hand out samples of other deadly and pandamic-creating diseases. Nah, there is no potential doom in disaster in that, is there?

you've twisted and turned and writhed in every direction possible to turn nothing into something, and it just isn't working when one one realizes your aim.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by soficrow

The US government is using the 2002 Bioterrorism Act to obstruct access to scientific data about bird flu so that the information will remain privately owned and controlled, and can be used for profiteering.

.

Okay, here is the heart of your matter.
Your communal, socialistic mindset is having difficulty with the idea of anyone making a profit.

No. My issue is with anyone purposefully orchestrating a situation to profiteer. Two different concepts, although related.

I can really help you with this.

No doubt.

Companies do not make large profits from flu vaccines. It is just about a pro bono operation. There is not great benefit to the company and there is no benefit to the government; that is to say, no profit.

Please review the background information contained here:

WHO Pushes for Bird Flu Vaccine Production

"Vaccine makers have not mass-produced H5N1 vaccine because it's not profitable. Patents and Intellectual Property Rights for the technology are held by several different owners, and the licensing and fees to use the technology cut into profits."

Now, let's think about this from another angle. Considering the 1918 flu pandemic was so brutal, and considering there just might be those who'd like to create instability throughout the world (besides the OWO gang), do you think maybe there could be other concerns besides the false notion that there is money to be made in flu vaccines?

Yes. As I've written before, I think this and other emerging pandemics are the direct result of a depopulation and population control strategy set in motion nearly a century ago - and this is the climax. The ability to profit directly from the catastrophe is a side benefit.

FYI - The profit is not solely derived from vaccines, but runs the gamut from genetic and stem cell therapies, to positioning to privatize essential government services, and take over government - and the tax base - directly.

Hey, why we're at, why don't we just hand out samples of other deadly and pandamic-creating diseases. Nah, there is no potential doom in disaster in that, is there?

The world is dealing with several diseases that already are out of control, at the genetic level. Terrorists are not required to orchestrate a doomsday scenario. Only focused cooperative collaboration between governments and international agencies might prevent total disaster.

you've twisted and turned and writhed in every direction possible to turn nothing into something, and it just isn't working when one one realizes your aim.

FYI - All my research - in several completely different disciplines including geodynamics, molecular biology, and corporate law - tells me that the 'developed' world is one major catastrophe away from an orchestrated return to feudalism and the dark ages. And yes, I am passionate about it, and yes, I want to share my knowledge.

If you are saying that such an aim is somehow ignoble. Well... May I suggest that your commitment to your ideology is preventing you from seeing the facts clearly?



.

TC you are right vaccines are none profiting but keeping the people in treatments that will arise as secondary reactions to vaccines and viruses itself are indeed very profitable.

The pharmaceutical industry makes most of its money with Let me make you feel better drugs so indeed a vaccine is not the desirable target right now but drugs to make you feel better if you get sick from the Bird Flu.

Now, no wonder they don't want anybody around the world to get their hands on it, can you imagine if a vaccine is developed in another country our multi billion dollar empire that is our pharmaceutical industry with billions yearly put into our politicians and presidential campaign will lose money the same money that our politicians are so fond of it.

What do you think?


[edit on 24-10-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Hamburglar
Excuse me Mr. Moderator, perhaps a refresher is needed. I have not harasses or threatened. I have not abused.

I have been rude, but rudeness IS NOT PROHIBITED BY THE TOC.

Since you're being so direct..

2.) You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

You insulted the person's reading skills (intellect), called the other person an "idiot" twice and called them "dumb" all in a single post.

Furthermore, ZZZ, how do you warn someone twice for a single post?

From the Thread reagarding warnings...
Please be aware that depending on the severity of your actions, you may be warned more than once for the same offense by our staff.

Why did you delete my subsequent post apologizing for my rudeness?

You were not apologizing, but rather dragging ATSNN further into the mud.

Finally, if I am to be warned for what can only be your LOOSE interpretation of the TOC (I'm assuming you'd suggest I somehow "attacked"), then why hasn't this thread's author been warned for the egregious and much pointed out violation of the...

I suppose like my dad would say when I said "but he hit me too." I was dealing with YOU and YOUR actions. What happens regarding another member is simply none of your concern. And last I checked...name-calling is NOT a "loose interpretation."

If you call someone the things you did...you will get warned.

If you have even a shred of intellectual honesty, sense of fair play, or backbone, I expect to see some warn stickers up on soficrow's avatar in the very near future.

But, I won't hold my breath.

And so now, since you can't seem to look at your own actions...you now want to call me out and make veiled accusations regarding my intellect (if I had a shred) too.

Nice.

ZZZ, I just don’t get it. Yeah, I said those things, so what? If someone lies, I can’t say “you’re a liar”? That’s ridiculous. And, I did apologize to the rest of the folks here for it. You just chose not to accept on behalf of everyone else here.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZoranderWhat happens regarding another member is simply none of your concern.

You’re going to stick by that? A moderator is really suggesting that what happens in this community is not a concern of the members? If so, I think you are not doing your job as a moderator. (Go ahead and warn me for that too; call it “abuse” since you are so amped to scold me)

You have allowed this thread to continue, over the repeated musings of numerous members who have noted that this type of misrepresentation is commonplace for this thread's author.

I don't really care if you don't think it's my business what goes on in this thread.

THIS IS NOT YOUR COMMUNITY. It belongs to all of us. Now just because I was rude—which I patently admitted and apologized for (except you deleted that post)—does not negate the fact that this entire thread is a violation of your beloved terms and conditions.

BTW, there is a distinct difference between intellect and intellectual honesty. You can try to imagine that I'm insulting you, but you are mistaken. Perhaps you can answer reasonably (as MODERATOR should), instead of trying to wittily excoriate me and remove my voice as if my age, numerous college degrees, and knowledge on this topic are somehow irrelevant.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander You were not apologizing, but rather dragging ATSNN further into the mud.

Don't pretend that this joke of a thread can be brought any lower by something that I might write. It is vulgar and insulting to all of us that this kind of garbage is allowed to fester for so long on ATSNN.

First you have a thread that is based on a complete fabrication (at best, a gross misrepresentation of the facts). Then, when the author is called on it, she magically changes the direction of the thread so that it seems more palatable to those who don't know as much as others about this topic. Last, when a MEMBER who is so fed up with this crud on ATSNN tries to make some bigger noise about it, I get two warns and an insulting, public scolding from you (which is not very becoming from a moderator). Perhaps it’s time some other moderator came in to moderate instead of castigate. Moderation is not about making the snappiest retorts.

Fine. Warn me. Edit out my rude comment. But, as far as this thread is concerned...

You can pretend I'm the lone voice in the wilderness all you want, but the fact is, your "moderation" here is arbitrary at best.

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is bogus? Let's see:

Originally posted by FredT
Did you even read the article while you were cutting and pasting it to suit your Tabloidesqe title?

Originally posted by namehere
and sofi saying we're not sharing when we are just requiring screening to those who want samples, is clearly distortion.

Originally posted by Astronmer68
Soficrow, I second (or third, or whatever) the sentiments of others here who say you are deliberately misleading people.

Originally posted my makeitso
Observation: Misleading statment. Wont Share? War? WTF?...

Observation: False and misleading statment….

Observation: Misleading statment. 1. This statment was based on the 2 misleading and false statements listed above….

Observation: Misleading statment….

Originally posted by Valhall
It's weird that this gross twisting of facts keeps happening over and over. Isn't it? Some kind of bizarre pattern I guess.

Originally posted by Hamburglar (here’s my first request for “moderator” action)
I thought this board had moderators who might at least attempt to correct some of this. You know, the whole motto of the Web site, which I need not write again.

What say you mods? Any chance we could have some action here?

Originally posted by FredT (again)
The only issue we do not seem addressing here is the fact that your story was misleading and inaccurate at best.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Got an idea. Why not stick to the original topic, rather than making this a convoluted mess.

Originally posted by FredT (again)
Yes I have to agree here 100% in this case, you did write the news. But you failed to Reporte news as you would expect from an ATSNN Expert submitter. The Bias was there from the title to the cut an paste article (trying to support you conclusions and was total unrelated) that many in this thread pointed out.

Originally posted by Skibum
Sorry for the extensive quote but the whole thing is applicable, not just the few words sofi is trying to use.....

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
you've twisted and turned and writhed in every direction possible to turn nothing into something, and it just isn't working when one one realizes your aim.

## REMOVED SNIPPET OF PRIVATE U2U FROM ATS STAFF ##


And yet, no action.

By the by, you are much more polite on U2U than you are when you have an audience.


And last, but not least, to Thomas Crowne, I respect that you assisted in calling the author out on this nonsense, but take my word for it,this…

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You do not have to try and play stupid,

might get you a warning if you’re not careful. I hope you get this TC, because I bet it doesn't stay up for long.


[edit on 24-10-2005 by SkepticOverlord]

Well, I have something to say about this, and it hasn't anything to do with personalities, so I hope no one will get terribly upset with me.

Obviously some post was deleted, so we'll never know how utterly violating or not it was to the TOC. So I will not comment on what is not here to see. And I have no second thoughts to any moderator action accorded toward that, as I have noticed, by and large, the moderators seem to act in the best of the board. I do not even entertain a position of thinking otherwise on this particular post.

BUT, in regards to hamburglar's most well researched and well structured posts that are in this thread and still living, I must say - KUDOS! Also, in response to his statements in this most recent post, I must say - DOUBLE BULLY!

How many times, and in how many threads, must one member INITIATE false statements, blatantly stack the deck on facts, completely dismiss facts and disregard history when it does not agree - or more importantly negate - their false propaganda before that member's behavior can be deemed intentionally misleading?

Apparently a LONG TIME!

This thread alone is a blatant attack on the sensibilities of most intelligent posters on this board. But when you take into account the originating author's inability to even grasp such basics as the founding fathers' statements (when they disagree with her shpeel), physics (when they don't go with what she is pushing), and now the basic full text of the very source she references (when the whole does not agree with her bent), how much further do you want to go in allowing drivel?

So warn away! We're waiting in line to get our red tags. We've decided it's worth it, if you haven't noticed.



[edit on 24-10-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Report: Ottawa's International Bird Flu Conference, 10-24-05

Discussions at the bird flu conference in Ottawa has four themes: "the intersect of animal and human health concerns; the need to build surveillance and scientific capacity in affected countries; risk communications; and the development of and access to antiviral drugs and vaccines."


Experts say a pandemic still might be prevented - if the world focuses on prevention, rather than just preparing for a pandemic. The key to prevention is to identify and deal with outbreaks in animals, especially poultry say experts. The FAO and the World Organization for Animal Health have a $175 million strategy for controlling bird flu in birds. They've recieved pledges of aid totaling about $30 million but no cash.

The USA was the first country to make a pledge to this fund, for $6 million. U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt is attending the conference, and Condoleeza Rice also will be in Ottawa - to discuss softwood lumber and bird flu.

Ottawa bird flu conference needs to bring fight to animals

Several countries have announced plans to build stocks of antiviral drugs and vaccines to combat the threat. Governments also have destroyed some 140 million birds wherever the virus has been found.

"All of these measures are good, but they are only the second line of defense," UN Food and Agriculture Organization head Jacques Diouf told AFP. "The real battleground is on the animal front."

***

“It doesn’t look to us quite rational that we would be ready to spend so much money on the second line of defence and then on the first line of the combat field, we’re not putting even $100 million,” Diouf said in an interview.

Animal Control is Key

***

Many of the countries most affected are poor and lack the money either for proper surveillance or to pay farmers compensation for animals that need to be culled, he said.

"Much more medium- and long-term strategic and material input is required for countries and regions to be in a sufficiently strong position to avert further damage to industry and global human health," he said.

World not doing enough to fight bird flu


***

Pandemic planning shouldn't overlook need to fix source agricultural problems

"Our first line of defence should be attacking the problem at the poultry level," Dr. Alejandro Thiermann, adviser to the director general of the OIE, said in the opening session of the 1 1/2 day gathering of health ministers from developed and developing countries. ..."So far, it is our opinion, that the international community has drastically underinvested in the veterinary infrastructure required to support this vitally important program."

The funds would be used to foster veterinary skills in the affected region, beef up surveillance for poultry outbreaks and compensate farmers for the destruction of infected birds. ..."Unless the people who are affected - and many of them are poor people, they are the ones raising these poultry or ducks - unless they are duly compensated when there is a culling of their animals, they will not be co-operating. And they will also be hiding their animals and the avian influenza may spread," Diouf said. ...Since the H5N1 outbreaks first came to light in South Korea in late 2003, an estimated 140 million birds have been killed by the virus or culled because the disease. Economic losses are in the range of $10 billion.

"We know that farmers in many of these countries are destitute and if in one of these countries, a very poor farmer decides not take the necessary means, something will happen, unfortunately," (Canada's Prime Minister) Martin said. "And if it happens in an Asian country - it will happen here as well."

***

Fears of a bird flu pandemic among people has seriously hampered efforts to prevent the spread of an outbreak among birds because not enough money is being spent on prevention and surveillance... Diouf said the FAO and the World Organization for Animal Health had developed a detailed $175 million strategy for controlling avian flu in birds. So far the two bodies have only received pledges of aid totaling about $30 million and donors have not yet handed over a single cent.

World not doing enough to fight bird flu-officials

Ottawa bird flu conference needs to bring fight to animals

If the bird flu pandemic does materialize, many fear the rich will live, and the poor will die. "Just imagine the ethical, political and security implications of a world where only rich countries have access to life-saving drugs or vaccines, and the rest of the world stands while they march towards death," Frenk (Mexico's health minister) said in an interview. "That is an unsustainable scenario."

Pandemic planning shouldn't overlook need to fix source agricultural problems

Discussions at the conference will take place along four themes: the intersect of animal and human health concerns; the need to build surveillance and scientific capacity in affected countries; risk communications and the development and access to antiviral drugs and vaccines. ...On that last point, the meeting will hear a proposal from Julio Frenk, Mexico's health minister, calling on wealthier nations to devote 10 per cent of their stores of antivirals as well as help mid-level countries develop vaccines so more of the world's people can be protected in the event of a pandemic.

"Just imagine the ethical, political and security implications of a world where only rich countries have access to life-saving drugs or vaccines, and the rest of the world stands while they march towards death," Frenk said in an interview. "That is an unsustainable scenario."

Health leaders also are discussing the possibility of getting together to produce generic versions of Tamiflu - which would involve overriding the patent, a move provided for by the World Trade Organization in 2003.

Health ministers meet over bird flu plans

...some officials at the opening of a two-day conference on battling a potential flu pandemic were discussing whether they might have to break international patent regulations to produce generic versions of Tamiflu if it came down to saving their civilians.

"A suggestion that's being made by some countries is that there are countries that have the capacity to manufacture the vaccine, that we actually need to assist them with technology transfers," Canada's Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh told a news conference. He said technology transfers was "a euphemism for loosening the patent laws."

The World Trade Organization in 2003 decided to allow governments to override patents during national health crises, though no member state has yet invoked the clause.

Tamiflu
www.grandforks.com...]Tamiflu Patent[/url]

***

Canada's top health official said Monday the international community was "concerned" about the reluctance of Swiss drug giant Roche to allow generic versions of its antiviral drug that could protect millions from a bird flu pandemic.

"In Canada, we respect the intellectual property but we also have regulations that in an emergency we have the mechanism to deal with that kind of an issue very quickly," he said... Earlier Monday, Roche cautioned countries against producing their own generic versions of the drug Tamiflu, which has been shown to lessen the effects of flu in humans. Roche holds the patent until 2016.

Bird flu: concern over Roche licences

MD: Avian flu must mutate for it to sicken humans

Since December 2003, the H5N1 strain of bird flu has turned up in at least 10 Asian countries, infecting more than 100 people, killing at least 60 of them. ...It is believed to have spread when humans came in contact with an infected bird or a contaminated surface, according to the CDC. Human to human spread of the virus is rare and has not continued beyond one other person, the CDC said.

On September 29 the World Health Organization warned that an avian flu pandemic among humans was "imminent" and urged all nations to make preparations for battling an outbreak.

Siegel, an associate professor at New York University School of Medicine, said the world health community must improve vaccine mass production. Current manufacturing technology is about 50 years old and involves creating vaccines in fertilized chicken eggs. ..."We can use genetic engineering and get a vaccine very quickly, but we are busy using the old chicken-egg medium which takes three to six months to make a vaccine," he said. "I think we need to upgrade our ability to make vaccines quickly."

U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt said Thursday the world is "woefully unprepared" to respond to a pandemic. He said the United States must "have surveillance domestically, so if it shows up here we know about it very quickly."

Also see:

Ms. Bennett (St. Paul's, Ont.) a medical doctor, said even if Canada is one of the best-prepared countries in the world, there's always room for improvement.

Overview: Global health leaders to seek strategy for bird flu


[ADMIN Edit: Please DON'T advertise "board drama", we deeply dislike "board drama"]


[edit on 24-10-2005 by soficrow]

[edit on 10-24-2005 by Springer]

As I posted earlier, the analysis of the 1918 Flu Epidemic virus has been completed and the results published in both Science and Nature (both with world-wide distribution). Any country with the capability to contribute solutions to the potential human to human transmission of Avian Flu has the capability now to reconstitute the 1918 virus for further study so samples of the physical virus are no longer required.

Well Soficrow you've gotten completely away from the original topic of this thread, but this digression is good. Now we can discuss the world-wide response to the threat of an Avian Flu pandemic.

I totally concur that more needs to be done at the animal level. I don't know whether or not a bird vaccine has been created yet--do you? If one has been created then it needs to be distributed on a wide scale to try to prevent Avian Flu from totally decimating the world's birds. Someone has to pay for the production & distribution of vaccines to farmers and agri-business and compensate small farmers for birds that must be destroyed. The effort will not be cheap, but as they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Crow, I'll not waste a bunch of time with silly one line quote/replies as I can communicate in a paragraph manner.

The fact of the matter is that I am 100% right, and it was your admission that I used. This is not a case of you being indignant about a lack of cooperation. If that were the case, you'd never stop howling about the Chinese and would never have the time to make a comment about the States. China allows no information to leave its borders. It didn't about SARS until it was way beyond the point of helping and it isn't in regard to this virus, either. If your concern was truly humanitarian, you would have been raking China over the coals a LONG time ago.

Furthermore, you seem to have a propensity for ignoring all logic fact and truth in the attempts at furthering your agenda. It doesn't contain itself i nthis thread, but all threads you start. Just as you made it a point to ignore me in regard to the constitution of the U.S. and the history surrounding it, you make it a point to ignore those in this thread who have knowledge in this subject. There is a reason for this.

Let not fact stand in the way of your agenda.

I need not read a website suggested by you to know the truth in regard to profits on vaccines, and as far as my commitment to my ideology that is keeping me from seeing the facts clearly, just what ideology is that? As far as one of us being unable to see through BS, I'm afraid I am not the one. You simply assume that all of the people at this conspiracy site are undisciplioned and easily led, therefore easy targets for your agenda. Sorry to disappoint you, but that isn't the truth. Fact is, your brand of BS is just as unsavory as a neo-Feudalistic society. It might surprise you, but we have the option to choose neither.

Astronomer68

As I posted earlier, the analysis of the 1918 Flu Epidemic virus has been completed and the results published in both Science and Nature (both with world-wide distribution).

Astronomere - the published information was incomplete with respect to critical data - and had to be in order to qualify as "safe" for publication.

I don't know whether or not a bird vaccine has been created yet--do you?

There is, but according to the Japanese press, the WHO is asking that birds NOT be vaccinated. The risk of vaccines spreading the flu is too high, along with other issues.

Someone has to pay for the production & distribution of vaccines to farmers and agri-business and compensate small farmers for birds that must be destroyed. The effort will not be cheap, but as they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Yes - prevention is the key.

ThomasCrowne
...you seem to have a propensity for ignoring all logic fact and truth in the attempts at furthering your agenda.

Earlier this month, the CDC came under fire for hiding unclassified information, hoarding flu data, and obstructing vaccine development. US scientists were especially incensed with a new CDC manual that tells officials how to hide data from the public without obtaining a "secret" classification. The government's motivation in keeping data secret was identified by David Webster, president of Webster Consulting Group Inc., a health-industry consulting firm, as possibly being motivated by the desire to help protect partner pharmaceutical companies' ability to profit from research partially funded by taxpayer money.

Immediately following publication of the charges that they were hiding data, on October 5, the CDC announced that the 1918 flu virus had been recreated, and said "the 1918 virus was reconstructed to help public health officials prepare for the threat of a new pandemic, to learn what made the virus so harmful, and to help develop better flu drugs and vaccines." The secrecy expose was 'damage controlled' and coverage of the scandal was suppressed in the mainstream US media.

On October 21, the CDC classified the 1918 bird flu as a "select agent." The classification makes perfect sense and is certainly warranted, but in the current environment of secrecy, and given the CDC's policy of hiding unclassified information - the promised benefits "to help develop better flu drugs and vaccines" very likely will not materialize. The critical, profitable data will be hidden along with the bulk of CDC data generated from taxpayer funded research - as "Select Agent Sensitive Information."

The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) posted the CDC manual online, as part of their project on government secrecy: PDF. CDC Policy on Sensitive But Unclassified Information Manual Guide - Information Security CDC-02. Date of Issue: 07/22/2005. Proponents: Office of Security and Emergency Preparedness. Title: SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED INFORMATION.

In particular, the CDC manual outlines methods to hide unclassified information on "select agents," categorised as "Select Agent Sensitive Information" OR SASI. Also see: Issue Overview. Select Agent Research: Sensitive but not classified (PPT)


"Withholding data is not just bad public policy, it is bad science," says Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists' project on government secrecy. The CDC's role is to disseminate public health information, not withhold it, he says. Open government advocates say the CDC's actions run counter to its mission. However, scientists and scientific associations fear to speak out because the CDC controls their funding.

Researchers, advocates flay CDC data secrecy

Scientists are accusing the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of hoarding crucial data that could help vaccinations at a time when there is growing concern about a possible influenza pandemic. ...The nation's disease control center also is under fire from open-government advocates for recently issuing a guide on how to keep other data, documents and information from public inspection. Called the "Information Security" manual, the 34-page document provides officials with 19 categories to shield data from public scrutiny without obtaining a secret classification marking.

Open government advocates say the CDC's actions run counter to its mission. The CDC's role is to disseminate public health information, not withhold it, said Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists' project on government secrecy, which first published the leaked manual on its Web site. ..."The CDC is not the CIA," Aftergood said. "Withholding data is not just bad public policy, it is bad science."

The Sept. 22 issue of the journal Nature reported widespread concern among influenza researchers that too little flu data collected by the CDC are made available for research, hindering their efforts to develop flu vaccines. ...One U.S. Institutes of Health researcher told the magazine that other than the occasional large deposits of data that accompany published papers required by journals, information is "coming through an eyedropper."

Nearly all of the scientific associations and scientists interviewed for this story declined to comment on the record. The issue is "delicate," one person explained, because the CDC controls funding for research.

The Coalition of Journalists for Open Government (CJOG) covered the topic in a brief on October 4, 2005:

Secrecy at Centers for Disease Control Criticized

The Centers for Disease Control have come under criticism from scientists because of their tight control of information, Cox Newspapers reports. An article in the journal Nature focuses on the CDC’s failure to make available data it has collected on flu strains, which scientists say has slowed research on the viruses. Open government advocates has also criticized the CDC’s publication of an “Information Security” manual setting out 19 categories of unclassified information to be shielded. (10/4/05)

The CDC has partnerships with the pharmaceutical industry; research is funded partly from tax coffers and partly by private companies. While the National Institutes of Health mandates Open Access publication of any research that receives any public funding, the CDC obviously does not. The CDC claims that it cannot keep up with information requests, but David Webster, president of Webster Consulting Group Inc., a health-industry consulting firm, says that the CDC may be concerned that sharing data might negatively affect its industry partners.

Concern grows over secrecy at CDC

Nature quoted Michael Deem, a scientist at Rice University, as saying: "Many in the influenza field are displeased with the CDC's practice of refusing to deposit sequences of most of the strains that they sequence." ...Nature's own analyses found that the CDC deposited less than a tenth of the 15,000 influenza A sequences in the gene database Genbank and the influenza sequence database at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. By comparison, a consortium led by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases deposited more than 2,800 sequences this year alone.

One concern the CDC may have about sharing data is how it would affect any partnership it might have with vaccine manufacturers, said David Webster, president of Webster Consulting Group Inc., a health-industry consulting firm.

The CDC might be concerned that those manufacturers might not be able to recoup their investment if the information is widely available.

There may be good reason to classify certain information to protect it from bioterrorists, but the information that the CDC is hiding is NOT classified. The agency is moving from a position of scientific openness to one of secrecy - and that may not be in the public's best interest. At all.

CDC locks up flu data

Given the threat of a biological attack by a terrorist group, there may be sound reasoning for securing certain information, said Meredith Fuchs, general counsel at the National Security Archive at George Washington University.

However, the CDC manual shows a "shift in the agency mind-set from one that assumes openness to one that assumes secrecy," Fuchs said.

"It's worth understanding that secrecy is not necessarily going to advance the public's health," Fuchs said. "It's troubling and causes one to pause."

An agreement made by the World Trade Organization in 2003 allows nations to bypass Patents and Intellectual Property Rights when the issue is one of urgent public health. Officials at the international bird flu conference in Ottawa are talking about using this agreement to allow manufacturing of generic Tamiflu. Talk soon may turn publicly to the idea of better, faster vaccine development and production - and bypassing Intellectual Property Rights protections on related data and technologies. However, data and technologies classifed as "Select Agent Sensitive Information" will be protected from such incursions.



.

Interesting. Forgot about this thread.

To recap and update: Sounds like Vietnam and Russia are using reverse genetic engineering for their national vaccine supply. Vietnam already started production, Russia is planning to build a plant within the next couple of years. Most scientists say bird flu is/will become endemic - and the best plans are long term, including national control of vacccine production using reverse genetic engineering.

Most everyone else is relying on Tamiflu - which doesn't work - and old-fashioned vaccine manufacturing technology that uses chicken eggs - although H5N1 kills the eggs and routinely contaminates and ruins batches.

A German scientist still is pushing for a combination vaccination-poultry quarantine strategy (covered in swissinfo) - but most other scientists say it's too late now and won't work.


.

Oh yeah, one more thing.

Donald Rumsfeild is making a killing on Tamiflu - even though it doesn't work.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

.

Indonesia is withholding bird flu samples until an agreement is reached to prevent commercialization, and share the benefits of further research, including vaccines. Now, the world's poor nations are negotiating together, with the WHO, for vaccine access.

Poor Countries Square Off With WHO Over Access To Bird Flu Vaccine

The World Health Organization might guarantee that poor nations get access to bird flu vaccines in the event of a pandemic, the top WHO flu official said Monday, hoping to end a dispute triggered by Indonesia's decision to stop sharing virus samples.

Indonesia - the nation hardest hit by bird flu, with 66 human deaths - is refusing to send samples of the H5N1 bird flu virus to WHO until it stops sharing them with commercial vaccine makers.

The cash-strapped country says the current system is unfair because it cannot afford vaccines produced using its strains.

***

Asian nations, WHO meet over H5N1 sharing row

Drawing up rules aimed at restricting how virus samples shared amongst countries are used would slow down global efforts to develop vaccines, the World Health Organisation's top bird flu official said on Monday.

Indonesia, which is hosting a WHO meeting with health officials from 18 nations to discuss the issue, has said it will only share samples of the H5N1 avian influenza virus if it has guarantees they will not be used commercially.

Some health and aid agencies have criticised Indonesia for refusing to share samples, while others defended the stance because developing countries often struggle to get access to life-saving drugs due to patent laws and high costs.

***

To ensure it has access to a bird flu vaccine, Indonesia has reached a tentative agreement with U.S. drug manufacturer Baxter Healthcare Corp. Under the deal, Indonesia would provide the virus in exchange for Baxter's expertise in vaccine production.

Reflecting standard US Foreign Policy - "Do as we say, not as we do" - US Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt responded to the situation:

Leavitt Statement on the WHO Global Pandemic Influenza Action Plan to Increase Vaccine Supply

Efforts to increase the availability of influenza vaccines in developing countries, however, should not compromise the integrity of the 50-year-old WHO Global Influenza-Surveillance Network, which provides early warning of evolving influenza virus strains, both seasonal and those with pandemic potential. All nations have a responsibility to share data and virus samples.

Responding to a pandemic will demand the cooperation of the world community, as no nation can go it alone. If a country is to protect its own people, it must work together with other nations to protect the people of the world.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
Soficrow, I second (or third, or whatever) the sentiments of others here who say you are deliberately misleading people. Further, I read the link you cited and commented on that thread. The leglislation proposed in that thread is, IMHO, good leglislation that should be adopted & made law.

I disagree w/ you. I believe that Soficrow-san is telling the truth. Im all for you Soficrow

The USA is currently dumping all over Indonesia and China for not sharing flu samples.

The arguments made here defending the USA's refusals and unwillingness to share bird flu samples are quite interesting, imo. (Especially in this 'historical' context.)





ed. to add bracketed comment







[edit on 18-4-2007 by soficrow]