the future of the iraqi airforce

US froces are currently auditing the inventory and capacities of the iraq AF with a view to rebuilding the airdorce .

link


1 - should the new iraqi armed forces be restricted in the manner germany and japan were , in the post WWII era

2 - should the ` rights ` of iraq as a soverign state to raise what ever armed forces they desire be respected

[ EDIT ]

3 - what airforce SHOULD the new iraq have

ie does it need strike fighters etc

or should it just have SAR and the transport assets to

should it invest all its " defensive " capability in advanced SAM and guns that cannot attack a foriegn power but will deter attack

appologis for the edit - my cut n paste went wrong

[edit on 21-10-2005 by ignorant_ape]

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
1 - should the new iraqi armed forces be restricted in the manner germany and japan were , in the post WWII era

2 - should the ` rights ` of iraq as a soverign state to raise what ever armed forces they desire be respected

2 I'd say. The same regime is no longer in power, so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't do what they want.

I mean, they'll still be nothing compared to the likes of America, so why should they feel threatened?

MANINCLOAK wrote :

"2 I'd say. The same regime is no longer in power, so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't do what they want.
"

the "old " regieme was no longer in power in germany - and the de- nazification process had been enforced , so i dont agree with your first point

as for " letting them do what they want " - please see the edits to my OP

my view is wy do the NEED certain cpapabilites - ie esp strike fighters that can attack outside thier borders

I think the future if the Iraq airforce is going to be one that it is limited to its to such a pathethic for as it is now. There existence is a purely one of pride, not power and not of strengh. Any they send send up ususally gets whacked as soon s we can see their their exaust fumes of from their secure local. It would be liking as if one were shooting into a barrel of fish. They are very low on spare parts and other programs that combine to use their systems. If a squared and even one of our hands bted behind our backs, they are toast as sone as they get up to alttitude.

I would think that the Iraqi military in general would need to be fairly powerfull if they are not going to rely on the US. If they truelly want a very limited US presence in the mid term future, they will need strike capabilities along with air intercept abilities. They have Iran right next to them who are their historical enemy, plus they will be dealing with terrorism for the foreseeable future.

As far as their airforce goes... I think that the US could give them a large fleet of F-16's very cheaply once we replace ours with JSFs. Couple those with a large helo gun ship force, and thats all they'd really need.

Ignorant_ape, your link is no good. I know it's from Stars and Stripes,but I'mhainv no luck finding the proper page.

This was the quickest thing I could find on this.
Iraq seeks to rebuild air force





seekerof

A functioning Airforce will be very important to the future security of Iraq. Look what Saddam was able to do to the rebellion that came after the Gulf War when in the aftermath the US stupidly allowed Iraq to fly Helicopters including Gunships. For those that dont know with great help of those gunships Saddam was able to slaughter those that tried to rebel and take advantage of his weak state.The mujahideen in Afghanistan were also slaughtered by Russian Hind Gunships. Well until the US supplied them with stingers but before that Hinds would pound them with near impunity.

So Helicopters atleast are going to play a vital role in Iraqs future. Fighter Jets and bombers you can make do without for internal security. They are really more vital when fighting a army like say Iran. Im sure as long as Iraq has money Russia will sell them all the aircraft they want. I dont know if the US will sell them any though but I wouldnt count it out.

by Shadow XIX:
I dont know if the US will sell them any though but I wouldnt count it out.

Don't count it out, here's a bit from Seekerof's link: link

The US-donated planes are the backbone of Iraq's new air force, which also includes a dozen light reconaissance planes and another dozen helicopters spread across the country.

IMO common sense would be to assist in building a formidable Air Force in regards to both capabilities and numbers. If/when [could be awhile] the coalition forces start to withdraw from Iraq we need to ensure they have the ability to "fight the good fight", to maintain law and order as well as protection. The worst thing they could do would be to pull out and "there you be . . . it's all yours" thereby leaving a situation akin to taking a knife to a gunfight.

I almost forgot about all those Migs Saddam flew over to Iran during the Gulf War. Anyone know what happened to those last I heard he had sent over 130 planes to Iran for safe keeping and they where never returned. They were some of the better fighters and bombers.

Last time I checked Tehran insists that only 22 military planes were sent to Iran, with some of them badly damaged in landing. But it says it is ready to return them if asked by the United Nations.

Any chance of Iraq getting those planes back now since they were payed for by the Iraqie people

i think we should give them the same training and support we give to israel. anything less would prove to the muslim community that we do, indeed, play favorites.

one source of modern aircraft would be for the USA to aproove the sale of the NZ fleet [ upgraded skyhawks ] to iraq

as for the iranians - in thier position , would you return the aircraft ???

sorry about the link - blame estripes - it was working when i copied it

i stiill maintain that given the state of iraqi infrastructure , their first priorities should be civil reconstruction

ans will again ask WHY does iraq NEED an offensive capable airforce ?

Originally posted by snafu7700
i think we should give them the same training and support we give to israel. anything less would prove to the muslim community that we do, indeed, play favorites.

There is actually a pretty decent chance of something like this happening.

They won't get nukes, but they will probably get export versions of all of our stuff subsidized by the US.

In return, we get watchdog #2 in the middle east to sick on anyone we want.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I almost forgot about all those Migs Saddam flew over to Iran during the Gulf War. Anyone know what happened to those last I heard he had sent over 130 planes to Iran for safe keeping and they where never returned. They were some of the better fighters and bombers.

Last time I checked Tehran insists that only 22 military planes were sent to Iran, with some of them badly damaged in landing. But it says it is ready to return them if asked by the United Nations.

Any chance of Iraq getting those planes back now since they were payed for by the Iraqie people

I doubt that Iraq will get those planes back, ShadowXIX.
It has been over 10 years since those Iraqi planes were sent to Iran for 'safe keeping.' As such, if some to most have not been returned, they will not be returned.
Saddam was in stupid-mode when he sent those fighters to Iran.
From what I understand, Iran permanently seized them as some sort of reparations for the Iran-Iraq War.





seekerof

[edit on 25-10-2005 by Seekerof]

I think your right Seekerof. I always thought it was weird that Saddam sent those planes to Iran in the first place. Saddam got into quite a bloody war with Iran for a long time and they had a rivalry going much further back .

I guess he realized he didnt have many friends in flying distance.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I think your right Seekerof. I always thought it was weird that Saddam sent those planes to Iran in the first place. Saddam got into quite a bloody war with Iran for a long time and they had a rivalry going much further back .

I guess he realized he didnt have many friends in flying distance.

I would've thought Syria was the logical choice personally.

I don't see why the US can't give them some F-16s or something, they have plenty going spare and they would still be reliant on the US for spare parts.

Something cheap, Cos' they aren't going to attack anybody, just defend... Maybe old F-15, when the F-22 come in use...

[edit on 26-10-2005 by Figher Master FIN]

Yeah, we could give them second hand planes such as F-16s,F-4s, F-111s A-5 Vigilantes and some other ex US/NATO planes from AMARC as long as they are in airworthy condition , Especially F-4s definetly they have the best service record in 45 years these planes are "Future Proof" if you get what i mean. It would be better selling of the F-4s to Iraq then to convert them into target drones

Just an idea like but i think they should bring back the Boeing B-47 airframe.
Ok it doesnt have to be a bomber but it could be used as a tanker or an AWACS plane. It could be supplied to other NATO countries who cannot afford big things like KC-10s and so on. Well anyway the new Iraq would be the no1 customer for somthing like this.

Iran is definately keeping those planes. Some Iraqi pilots reported seeing Iranian paint teams painting the Iranian flag on the planes before the pilots even left the runway. Also, a lot of pilots flew to Iran as defectors, not on orders from Saddam, so those planes Iran will probably not admit to keeping for safekeeping (since they aren't.)

-koji K.